Your questions have been asked and answered many times already, just go through the links you mentioned yourself.
But basically:
1. the "threadmill proof" is a real proof, and typically one of the most convincing ways of proofing the concept.
2. the "outdoor proof" is more complicated to perform in a convincing way, i.e. perfectly flat and straight road, and strictly controlled windconditions (both strenght and force). Most all attempts in that direction would hardly convince any non-believer, as there would always be something that is not 100% clear or controlled. Indeed, the Bauer proof might have been (even) more convincing if it also showed that nobody was pulling the trolley, but even then, there would be many reasons why non-believer could still doubt about its validity.

>> ^quantumushroom:
If a terrorist attack occurs that could've been prevented by waterboarding intel from a captive, all blame goes to the American people who elected Obama who selected a bureaucrat for a job requiring different and specific experience.


Wiki on torture:
One well documented effect of torture is that, with rare exceptions, people will say or do anything to escape the situation, including untrue "confessions" and implication of others without genuine knowledge, who may well then be tortured in turn. That information may have been extracted from the Birmingham Six through the use of police beatings was counterproductive because it made the convictions unsound as the confessions were worthless.

This is why its not been used prior to bush and co. seeing how sucessful it is on 24. Cause its utterly fucking worthless, provides unsound intel, and can lead to false arrests and misallocation of resources chasing an endless rabbit hole of trails.

JACK BAUER IS NOT A REAL DUDE!!

Jack Bauer got pwn3d!

Fixed and thanks.

In reply to this comment by Sarzy:
*dead

Liberals dominate the media....this has been announced by Rush Limbaugh. And Thomas Sowell. And Ann Coulter. And Rich Lowry. And Bill O'Reilly. And William Safire. And Robert Novak. And William F. Buckley, Jr. And George Will.

And John Gibson. And Michelle Malkin. And David Brooks. And Tony Snow. And Tony Blankely. And Fred Barnes. And Britt Hume. And Larry Kudlow. And Sean Hannity. And David Horowitz. And William Kristol. And Hugh Hewitt.

And Oliver North. And Joe Scarborough. And Pat Buchanan. And John McLaughlin. And Cal Thomas. And Joe Klein. And James Kilpatrick. And Tucker Carlson. And Deroy Murdock. And Michael Savage. And Charles Krauthammer. And Stephen Moore. And Alan Keyes.

And Gary Bauer. And Mort Kondracke. And Andrew Sullivan. And Nicholas von Hoffman. And Neil Cavuto. And Matt Drudge. And Mike Rosen. And Dave Kopel. And John Caldara.

The mainstream media in this country are dominated by liberals. Look at how they all gave Bill Clinton a pass on the whole Monica Lewsinsky affair. Remember? It was never in the news. We never heard any of the salacious details.

http://blogs.wsj.com/law/2007/06/20/justice-scalia-hearts-jack-bauer/

Yeah, what kind of mentality won't embrace the police state and Our Leader, and just disrespects them instead? Why do you insult good Christian values, like perpetual war and torture?

There comes a time when you have to ask yourself, "What would Jack Bauer do?" And if you're going to betray the free market and a Christopathic president by saying that waterboarding is bad then the Islamomarxistchicanofeministsocialistbleedingheartartistfascists have already won. And I wonder what that word even means...but I don't wonder that much.

>> ^quantumushroom:
Don't ask a question if you're not prepared for an answer you might not like. Don't post a sift unless you're prepared for sifters to comment on it.
I wonder at the mentality that continually insults the President, maligns the country, disrespects police and the military, assaults religion (except radical islam) and then dares to be outraged that anyone might oppose these points-of-view...but I don't wonder that much.
Pleasant journey.
In reply to this comment by dystopianfuturetoday:
^We'd all be widowers by now if we abused our significant others every time you said something stupid.

I'd like to share an 8 year old's observation with you.

My son loves history. We started a year ago with ancient history. We use "The Story of the World" by Susan Wise Bauer.

There was chapter on Egyptian myths. It explained why ancient Egyptians told fables to children as a way of explaining why things work they way they do in the natural world. The example given was the fable of Isis' tears over Osiris drowning in the Nile and that was the reason the Nile floods every year.

Not long after we read that story, my son spent some time w/ a Christian grandparent. He asked me later about the Bible. So I told him the "Creation Story", "Adam and Eve" and "Noah and the Ark" story. After thinking about it a moment he said this to me:

"Oh I get it. This is another one of those make believe stories mommies told the kids to explain how things work."

Now if an 8 year old can have insight, then why can't these adults??

Here are my stats...
Age: 24
Sex: Male
Breed: American/Danish/Sweedish/Mexican
Weight: 198 lbs
Coat: Green bought it at Eddie Bauer
Name: Ty (also answers to "hey you" and "stop that man!")
Cute Level: Excessive

I think that about sums it up.

Lithic, I was shocked too that anyone could take 24 seriously. That was until I saw an interview with an instructor at West point. He found that many of his students thought Jack Bauer's character was heroic, and said they would do "whatever it took" to get information that would save American lives.

Young recruits are often naive, full of patriotic zeal, and eager to go out and prove themselves heroes. That's what makes them so malleable, and it's exactly why we go out and recruit kids directly from high school.

I don't mean any insult to brave young people who want to help their country. But maturity, sound judgment, and empathy really are things that come with age. And we shouldn't let anyone lacking those qualities care for prisoners, or deal with foreign civilians.

Tags for this video have been changed from 'underrated, scifi, classic, jack, bauer' to 'underrated, scifi, classic, jack, bauer, rammstein, sonne' - edited by fissionchips

Dealing with hypothetical situations is also a form of presumption because you assume in all the situations you outlined that we know the most but not all of the information, some critical factor.

You are picking out the tree from the forest that is torture. It's impossible to have the situations you outlined, a terrorist being tortured to save the lives of many others, what if you are wrong? What if you end up torturing someone that is innocent? What if the suspect really doesn't know anything? What if all the torture only strengthens the resolve to stay silent, and you end up killing them?

This is the same reason right now the torture methods employed, the information it produced, the tapes of those events are destroyed lost or not given to the public record. Because it simply did not produce results and someone has hell to pay for violating the Geneva conventions and running the US name through the gutter.

Coercion always works better in interrogation. So far all you are doing is presenting fallacious 'what if' scenarios instead of looking at the wider picture of what the usage of such tactics would mean morally, socially and ethically for a nation that uses them. Especially for a democratic nation like the US.

But don't let logic dictate that, please go back to living in Jack Bauer's world where everything is conveniently black and white for you.

The thing I found most shocking about this video is that there are young recruits who think that the character of Jack Bauer is a hero or role model. That we actually allow these kids to carry guns, and interrogate detainees is reckless. I know the military is desperate for soldiers, but we would be doing ourselves (not to mention their victims) a favor if we weeded out the ones who are sadistic, heartless, or just incredibly deluded.

I watched the first few seasons of 24, and found them entertaining despite being ridiculous and melodramatic. Sort of a guilty pleasure. But how could anyone take it seriously?

Jane Meyer from the New Yorker wrote a wondeful article on this back in Feb. 2007 called "Whatever it takes" which talked with Joel Surnow the creator of 24.

This past November, US Army Brigadier General Patrick Finnegan, the dean of the United States Military Academy at West Point, flew to Southern California to meet with the creative team behind "24." Finnegan, who was accompanied by three of the most experienced military and FBI interrogators in the country, arrived on the set as the crew was filming. At first, Finnegan – wearing an immaculate Army uniform, his chest covered in ribbons and medals – aroused confusion: he was taken for an actor and was asked by someone what time his "call" was.

In fact, Finnegan and the others had come to voice their concern that the show's central political premise – that the letter of American law must be sacrificed for the country's security – was having a toxic effect. In their view, the show promoted unethical and illegal behavior and had adversely affected the training and performance of real American soldiers. "I'd like them to stop," Finnegan said of the show's producers. "They should do a show where torture backfires."

Gary Solis, a retired law professor who designed and taught the Law of War for Commanders curriculum at West Point, told the New Yorker that his students would frequently refer to Jack Bauer in discussions of what permissible in the questioning of terrorist suspects.

He said that, under both US and international law, "Jack Bauer is a criminal. In real life, he would be prosecuted." Yet the motto of many of his students was identical to Jack Bauer's: "Whatever it takes." His students were particularly impressed by a scene in which Bauer barges into a room where a stubborn suspect is being held, shoots him in one leg, and threatens to shoot the other if he doesn't talk. In less than ten seconds, the suspect reveals that his associates plan to assassinate the Secretary of Defense. Solis told me, "I tried to impress on them that this technique would open the wrong doors, but it was like trying to stomp out an anthill."

The Christian Science Monitor followed up with the more blunt title of "Does '24' encourage US interrogators to 'torture' detainees?" which culled information from several articles...

Once in a great while a man comes along who changes the world, men like, Benjamin Franklin, Goethe, Martin Luther King Jr., Lee Harvey Oswald, Jack Bauer, Rocky Balboa, and James Earl Ray. Yes these are men of noble standing and and have accomplished much in life.

Karaidl is the complete opposite. On top of being unsure about how to pronounce his name he suffers from many things. All of which he deserves.

For instance his avatar photo of himself is many years old. Now he has to lug his moobs around in a wheelbarrow. His size has grown so massive that he's become the subject of all "yo mamma" jokes.
Karaidl's looser friend: "Hey man, your so fat that you have your own zip code! HAHAHA!
Karaidl: "I'm gonna sit on you mutha****er! Soon as I find my legs!

Sadly the man is everything we hate; The man who puts needles in cupcakes. That jerk who backed into your car with his oversize SUV and didn't leave a note. The pudgy little kid in pre-school who cried in the corner all day. The jerk off teenager who walks around wal mart who thinks that sticking a 'funoodle' in his pants and pretending it's his penis is the greatest idea since he dropped out of high school.

Was he never loved enough as a child? Yes. Was he an outcast and reject of society? You bet. Did he ever give up? No. He kept on being a dickweed despite the fact that we did all we could to ignore him.

So when you think of great men; Mighty Mouse, Ralph Lauren, Vanilla Ice, Michael Jackson, and Lorena Bobbet. Keep thinking about them. Because they are so much more interesting, then this guy I'm roasting, who's name I can't really pronounce!

But Seriously Karaidl, thanks for your contributions to the sift, you always make me laugh.