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Why America Dropped the Atomic Bombs

MilkmanDan says...

As I recall from studying this is a college class, we had only the two atomic bombs available. Getting material for another was possible, but I think I recall that at the time we could only collect enough for one bomb every several months.

So, a HUGE aspect of this is that we had a pretty good hand of cards in the poker game, but felt that we had to bluff to suggest that it was even more overwhelming.

To me, the interesting part of the debate isn't blockade vs conventional bombing vs invasion vs A-bombs. I think it gets most interesting to consider alternatives that involve dropping one or more of the 2 A-bombs some place where their power would be demonstrated, but where casualties would be as low as possible.

Either option you mentioned would have been GREAT, if they worked (and forced surrender). But both had potential pitfalls also. Drop one on an unpopulated area, and they might have believed we were trying to take credit for some sort of natural event (German V2s blowing up in London were often attributed to sewage gas explosions early on). Staging a demonstration for scientists and leaders to witness might have hardened their resolve and/or made them question ours.

If I had been in Truman's shoes, I feel like I would have preferred to use ONE of the two bombs on something like one of your suggestions; either unpopulated drop or demonstration. Then, use the second on a target of military significance if/when they didn't surrender.

However, in hindsight that would have been a risky move -- they didn't surrender after the Hiroshima bomb, only after both. Would a demonstration and one "we mean business" bomb have been enough to elicit the same response? Who knows. At that point, consider how screwed we could have been if it HADN'T, and it would have taken months to build another bomb (plus keep in mind that we weren't 100% confident in the bombs working reliably, even after trinity and the first two drops). I guess that we could have maintained a blockade and said "we'll give you 3 months to come to your senses" while we made another bomb, but I think that would have legitimately resulted in Japan questioning our resolve quite a lot; we'd be showing our cards too early.

I guess that at the end of the day, I don't envy Truman for having to make that kind of decision. Given the givens, I think that he probably played it as safe as possible and went with the option that was the MOST likely to force surrender. Perhaps some other option would have worked as well but avoided some of the casualties, but Truman took the information available to him and made the decision that he felt was the best -- I think that is pretty much the best we can ask of our leaders.

rebuilder said:

The alternative, as far as I am familiar with the counterargument to this viewpoint, would have been to loosen the requirement of "unconditional surrender" of Japan, and possibly to demonstrate the bomb by dropping it on an unpopulated area. Inviting Japanese scientists to a staging ground for a controlled demonstration was also on the books.

Now, assuming the US top brass were convinced Japan was not going to surrender, the argument presented here is quite valid. Bombing a live target certainly had the most shock value, and the bombs were likely in quite limited supply. (I confess, I don't know how many there were at the time.) A continued conventional war would have been horrendous.

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Oliver Stone's Untold History of the United States [3/10]

Dragons are Real!

Procrastinatron says...

This guy reminds me of someone I knew back in what I assume must be Sweden's equivalent to High School.

I'd always thought he seemed like a nice, intelligent and well-adjusted guy, and... then I sat down and spoke to him.

To put it mildly, he shattered my expectations of him.

See, apparently, this guy had figured out (through various prophetic texts as well as the Bible) that there was a huge comet hurtling towards Earth, and that it would surely eradicate all life on the planet if we failed to stop it. Luckily, my (absolutely fucking bat-shit crazy) buddy had it all figured out.

He had three plans; either we simply send up four rockets with a great big rubber net suspended between them, or we pile everybody into Russia and cause the Earth to roll out of orbit, or we take a bunch of atoms, squish them all together, and create a kick-ass and completely impenetrable force field. Obviously, I asked him how the atoms were going to be kept together - after all, atoms are notoriously unwilling to cuddle - and for a moment, this gave him pause. He simply sat there with a frown, looking down at the table between us. Then, his face suddenly lit up with self-congratulatory smugness and, with one arched eyebrow and supreme confidence, he proudly uttered two words:

"Computer chips!"

We didn't really talk much after that.

10 Very Stupid Ways to Die

shatterdrose says...

Daleks would vaporize you. If you're atoms refused to stick together, you'd also vaporize. And that wasn't really death by stare, as much as death by not looking before crossing the street because you're staring.

spirit science-hidden human histories-for your consideration

modulous says...

I'm confused about the airship that defends the earth and is buried a mile under the Sphynx (see about 30:45 in), a structure built over 5 million years ago, obviously. Apparently it is only 5 atoms thick at its thickest part - and is also 24ft thick.

How does that work? It has like 4 or 5 orders of magnitude less atoms in its thickness than a piece of paper but its 24ft thick?

Right at the beginning he talks about how archaeology is being rocks because ancient cities such as Babylon were always thought to be myths. There's a photograph on wikipedia of Babylon from 1932... I mean, surely the lies should be less obvious?

The Atomic Cannon - 1953 Test Footage

Atomic Cannon test-fires a "baby" nuke

Atomic Cannon test-fires a "baby" nuke

Atomic Cannon test-fires a "baby" nuke

Atomic Cannon test-fires a "baby" nuke

radx says...

I was just about to question the listed weight of the projectile as well.

The main armament of the Scharnhorst-class battlecruisers had the same calibre and fired shells weighing in at around 250kg, so I figured Atomic Annie to be in the same ball park. Even the eggs Dora lobbed around were only about 7t apiece.

Although it takes the fun out of the process, WP lists the weight at 364kg.

Edit: http://videosift.com/video/The-Atomic-Cannon-1953-Test-Footage

harlequinn said:

It had a 15 kiloton equivalent detonation energy, not a 15 ton projectile.

enoch (Member Profile)

inside monsanto-scientists talk about the truth

notarobot says...

The idea of modifying organisms to produce foods that have stronger, more desirable qualities is not in of itself bad. Just as understanding the human genome is all about learning how things work. Issues come up over the use of that knowledge. Once you know how to utilize atomic energy, do you build a network of high-speed electric trains or destroy a city? The knowledge generated by this scientific research has been mismanaged. And yes, much of that boils down to lawyers, patents, greed, corruptions, and other corporate practices.

As far as your pet desires, perhaps a duck-horse, or shark-gull?

PHJF said:

Without getting into corporate practices, really, what does anyone have against GMO? Isn't genetic engineering supposed to be The Future and shit? I want a pet with a giraffe's head attached to a gigantic spider body. And I want it to speak French.

This is Why You Can't Outrun a Cheetah

Greatest Mysteries of WWII: Hitler's Stealth Fighter

notarobot says...

Heisenberg was indeed working on developing an atomic weapon for the Nazis, but he was still a couple of years behind the efforts at Los Alamos. The American project had better resources and the aid of Neils Bohr, Heisenberg's former mentor and colleague.

This is Why You Can't Outrun a Cheetah



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