Amniotic fluid does not cause septicaemia.

An alive foetus does not cause septicaemia.

A dead foetus does not cause Escherichia coli - but it can eventually cause septicaemia if it were not delivered - usually this happens by spontaneous delivery from the mothers body aborting the pregnancy. As it was they immediately delivered the baby upon cessation of its heart beat.

The septicaemia was caused by Escherichia coli - specifically a new Extended-Spectrum Beta Lactamase strain that is highly resistant to antibiotics. This bacteria is contracted in the hospital environment. This bacteria did not originate from the foetus.

So to roughly answer your question, to remove the source of the septicaemia would be to remove the source of the Escherichia coli, which is the hospital. I can't say if she would have survived outside of the hospital or not, but she probably would not have contracted the Escherichia coli and she probably would have safely delivered through spontaneous abortion.

It's sad she died, but the medical reason for her death was not a lack of abortion. It was from contracting a new deadly bacteria strain that is found in hospitals and is very hard to treat. It was probably contracted directly from either a doctor, another patient, a medical instrument, or a surface she touched within the hospital. These new antibiotic resistant bateria are a major problem worldwide killing many otherwise healthy people every year.

>> ^TheSluiceGate:

Here's a quote for you. The husband of the deceased:
“The doctor told us the cervix was fully dilated, amniotic fluid was leaking and unfortunately the baby wouldn’t survive.” The doctor, he says, said it should be over in a few hours. There followed three days, he says, of the foetal heartbeat being checked several times a day.
“Savita was really in agony. She was very upset, but she accepted she was losing the baby. When the consultant came on the ward rounds on Monday morning Savita asked if they could not save the baby could they induce to end the pregnancy. The consultant said, ‘As long as there is a foetal heartbeat we can’t do anything’.
“Again on Tuesday morning, the ward rounds and the same discussion. The consultant said it was the law, that this is a Catholic country. Savita [a Hindu] said: ‘I am neither Irish nor Catholic’ but they said there was nothing they could do.
“That evening she developed shakes and shivering and she was vomiting. She went to use the toilet and she collapsed. There were big alarms and a doctor took bloods and started her on antibiotics.
“The next morning I said she was so sick and asked again that they just end it, but they said they couldn’t.”
At lunchtime the foetal heart had stopped and Ms Halappanavar was brought to theatre to have the womb contents removed. “When she came out she was talking okay but she was very sick. That’s the last time I spoke to her.”
source - http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/frontpage/2012/1114/122432657520
3.html
The Irish Times
Now, do you think they should have removed the source of that septicaemia sooner?
(Bias declaration: I was within feet of the people pictured on the front of this video above)

Here's a quote for you. The husband of the deceased:

“The doctor told us the cervix was fully dilated, amniotic fluid was leaking and unfortunately the baby wouldn’t survive.” The doctor, he says, said it should be over in a few hours. There followed three days, he says, of the foetal heartbeat being checked several times a day.

“Savita was really in agony. She was very upset, but she accepted she was losing the baby. When the consultant came on the ward rounds on Monday morning Savita asked if they could not save the baby could they induce to end the pregnancy. The consultant said, ‘As long as there is a foetal heartbeat we can’t do anything’.

“Again on Tuesday morning, the ward rounds and the same discussion. The consultant said it was the law, that this is a Catholic country. Savita [a Hindu] said: ‘I am neither Irish nor Catholic’ but they said there was nothing they could do.

“That evening she developed shakes and shivering and she was vomiting. She went to use the toilet and she collapsed. There were big alarms and a doctor took bloods and started her on antibiotics.

“The next morning I said she was so sick and asked again that they just end it, but they said they couldn’t.”

At lunchtime the foetal heart had stopped and Ms Halappanavar was brought to theatre to have the womb contents removed. “When she came out she was talking okay but she was very sick. That’s the last time I spoke to her.”

source - http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/frontpage/2012/1114/1224326575203.html
The Irish Times

Now, do you think they should have removed the source of that septicaemia sooner?

(Bias declaration: I was within feet of the people pictured on the front of this video above)

>> ^harlequinn:

From the linked article "An autopsy carried out by Dr Grace Callagy two days later found she died of septicaemia “documented ante-mortem” and E.coli ESBL."
The risk of septicaemia is the same whether the baby dies by itself or whether the baby is killed by Drs (i.e. an abortion) - in both cases the baby is born dead and it is the medical intervention itself that presents the risk for complications. This is well documented in medical literature.


She was screaming and vomiting in her hospital bed for three days>> ^harlequinn:

>> ^Yogi:
>> ^harlequinn:
From the linked article "An autopsy carried out by Dr Grace Callagy two days later found she died of septicaemia “documented ante-mortem” and E.coli ESBL."
The risk of septicaemia is the same whether the baby dies by itself or whether the baby is killed by Drs (i.e. an abortion) - in both cases the baby is born dead and it is the medical intervention itself that presents the risk for complications. This is well documented in medical literature.

You want to maybe post some of that literature? Because if not, you're just a fucking liar.

Not posting any literature doesn't make me a liar - it just makes you uninformed - sorry, "fucking uninformed".

In 1981, Frank Tipler[3] put forth an argument that extraterrestrial intelligences do not exist, based on the absence of von Neumann probes. Given even a moderate rate of replication and the history of the galaxy, such probes should already be common throughout space and thus, we should have already encountered them. Because we have not, this shows that extraterrestrial intelligences do not exist. This is thus a resolution to the Fermi paradox—that is, the question of why we have not already encountered extraterrestrial intelligence if it is common throughout the universe.

A response[4] came from Carl Sagan and William Newman. Now known as Sagan's Response, it pointed out that in fact Tipler had underestimated the rate of replication, and that von Neumann probes should have already started to consume most of the mass in the galaxy. Any intelligent race would therefore, Sagan and Newman reasoned, not design von Neumann probes in the first place, and would try to destroy any von Neumann probes found as soon as they were detected. As Robert Freitas[5] has pointed out the assumed capacity of von Neumann probes described by both sides of the debate are unlikely in reality, and more modestly reproducing systems are unlikely to be observable in their effects on our Solar System or the Galaxy as a whole.

Another objection to the prevalence of von Neumann probes is that civilizations of the type that could potentially create such devices may have inherently short lifetimes, and self-destruct before so advanced a stage is reached, through such events as biological or nuclear warfare, nanoterrorism, resource exhaustion, ecological catastrophe, pandemics due to antibiotic resistance.

A simple workaround exists to avoid the over-replication scenario. Radio transmitters, or other means of wireless communication, could be used by probes programmed not to replicate beyond a certain density (such as five probes per cubic parsec) or arbitrary limit (such as ten million within one century), analogous to the Hayflick limit in cell reproduction. One problem with this defence against uncontrolled replication is that it would only require a single probe to malfunction and begin unrestricted reproduction for the entire approach to fail — essentially a technological cancer — unless each probe also has the ability to detect such malfunction in its neighbours and implements a seek and destroy protocol.

wikipedia my friend

hopefully this home cleanup ended with a series of some antibiotics... I had one of these on my back once, though not even remotely as blue-ribbon best-in-fair class... they said there wasnt much they could do for anesthetic... they froze my skin and then scalpled it

I would be scared to. Those little bastards bite hard, move quicker than you can blink and to top it off any bite is almost guaranteed to leave you needing more than a simple antibiotic treatment..

They don't taste to good so I'm never gonna try to catch one... again...

I repeat.......4 greatest medical discoveries of all time, antibiotics, antisepsis, anesthesia, and immunizations.

>> ^Jinx:

I just kept thinking that when my gut sprung a leak (well, my appendix anyway) the infection I got uncomfortably close to killing me and I needed a little more than spray on disinfectant and a course of antibiotics.
That is a crazy amount of plastic. I assume some of it is undigested plant matter but still. Wow. Poor cow.


As far as I know herbivore stomach contents are a lot less dangerous than omnivores like us. There isn't the same risk to the cow from internal contamination as there would be for a human. Also, remember that when an infected appendix bursts what it's spewing into your body isn't the normal contents of the gut but rather highly infectious matter from the swollen infected appendix.

I'm not a Vet, nor medically trained (I just have a decent background knowledge of biology due to having grown up with an A level biology teacher for a mother) so I'm willing to be shown I'm wrong, but it would be a completely bizarre thing for a vet to do if it there were the same risks. It's obviously had a good dose of local anesthetic and to be fair, it didn't look like it was going to have the best of chances without the surgery!

I'm amazed how much plastic there was, it just didn't look big enough to have that much inside it.

"Ok, cow. I'ma cut ya open, stick my hand in there and pull out whatever I can get ahold of. Then I'm gonna wring that gunk out and pour your juices back in with a funnel. You're welcome."

Knowing how easily humans can die from a minor post-surgical infection, it's pretty incredible, although I'd trust a follow-up video more than an offhand "we'll put her on antibiotics and she'll be fine."

I just kept thinking that when my gut sprung a leak (well, my appendix anyway) the infection I got uncomfortably close to killing me and I needed a little more than spray on disinfectant and a course of antibiotics.

That is a crazy amount of plastic. I assume some of it is undigested plant matter but still. Wow. Poor cow.

My best friend has MS. I have a form of Parkinsons. I have had cancer and survived.

I am also studying bioethics at Monash.

Judging by your overly defensive nature even before any retorts you are clearly not at ease with the ethical decisions you have made. I won't lecture you. Rather I will just say that you value certain things above others that have limited ethical grounding.
>> ^MycroftHomlz:

Do you have friends that have AIDS or HIV? Do you know someone (or know someone that knows someone) suffering MS? Parkinsons? Dushanes? Has anyone you known every gotten cancer and survived? Are you vaccinated? Do you take antibiotics when you get sick? Do you know anyone who has been the recipient of an organ transplant? Do you upvote Michael J. Fox videos?
Ask yourself these questions before you question how I sleep...
I think it is naive and hypocritical to on one hand use modern medicine and curl the other to a fist to bash its teeth in. You can't have it both ways. Sure it is sad that we have to use animal models. The best we can hope for is that they are treated as humanely as possible and their use is tightly regulated. All of which is true in the current paradigm.
>> ^Kofi:
Whatever helps you sleep at night.

Do you have friends that have AIDS or HIV? Do you know someone (or know someone that knows someone) suffering MS? Parkinsons? Dushanes? Has anyone you known every gotten cancer and survived? Are you vaccinated? Do you take antibiotics when you get sick? Do you know anyone who has been the recipient of an organ transplant? Do you upvote Michael J. Fox videos?

Ask yourself these questions before you question how I sleep...

I think it is naive and hypocritical to on one hand use modern medicine and curl the other to a fist to bash its teeth in. You can't have it both ways. Sure it is sad that we have to use animal models. The best we can hope for is that they are treated as humanely as possible and their use is tightly regulated. All of which is true in the current paradigm.

>> ^Kofi:

Whatever helps you sleep at night.

He should be using a razor rather than a needle. Also he has at the very least a cellulitis that requires some oral antibiotics and he should pack the drained abscess cavity with iodoform gauze. However, he does appropriately compress it, which hurts like hell.

snoozedoctor: 3 greatest medical discoveries ever;
Antibiotics
Immunization
Anesthesia

3 of man's greatest achievements:
Fire
A bed off the ground
Cake

I sound like a broken record; 3 greatest medical discoveries ever;
Antibiotics
Immunization
Anesthesia

The "doctors" who say that vaccination is bad and diseases are good should be locked in a room with a patient with antibiotic resistant TB.
"Just breath deeply, doctor. You're safe unless your body Wants to get sick."