>> ^Winstonfield_Pennypacker:
No - you don't because I'm not. Haven't voted 'Republican' in the last 5 elections.


So even though you seem to be unable to stop criticizing and arguing against Obama, you did not think the McCain/Palin ticket was worth voting for, but you now defend Palin and the people in this video? You might not be republican, but you are doing this to spite the leftists.


>> ^Winstonfield_Pennypacker:
I'm not 'blue collar' if that's what you mean by 'working class', but I am a salaried employee and thus subject to the same issues that effect the bulk of Americans.

>> ^Winstonfield_Pennypacker:
I donate a large percentage of my personal income to charities.



I hate to break it to you, but the "bulk of Americans" can't afford to donate any part of their salary to charities, especially not a large part, because they can barely get by as it is. I do think, however, that it is very admirable that you donate part of your income.

I refer those who are against a public option to the Al Franken video re: Medical bankruptcies in America vs. Nations with Public Health Care.

^ The real person to blame was the Speaker who was unable to properly control his session, so I'll happily call him a pussy.

But when you get right down to it, generally speaking the vast majority of the Dems we have in office are pussies, for lack of a better word. They had a super majority, controlled both the House and the Senate with filibuster proof majorities, they could have ramrodded through ANY bill they wanted if they had just been willing to nut up say "damn the torpedoes!" and not worry about upsetting their corporate overlords. We could have had a fully funded, completely universal, national healthcare service the day after Al Franken was sworn in, if they only had the courage to do what is best for the citizens, not what's least damaging to mega-corporations.

Yeah they passed a healthcare reform bill, that has been picked apart left and right, in order to needlessly "compromise" with conservatives. Whether this bill will provide any real relief for the citizens of this country, will be for time to tell.

I personally have my doubts.

>> ^Winstonfield_Pennypacker:
The answer is yes - of course Al Franken is just as guilty of cherry picking his numbers. I don't care what system you talk about, there is no such thing (statistically) as a ZERO when you are talking about a population in the millions. He's either making that up, or using some report that excludes medical bankruptcies. It doesn't matter what system the U.S. cooks up in Congress - there is never going to be a single day in the entire history of humankind that there will be 'zero medical bankruptcies' in the U.S. Such a claim is absolute bunk based on "cherry picking" how you define bankruptcy.
For example, Mr. Franken is probably not including Canada in his list of 'zero bankruptcies'...
http://www.fraserinstitute.org/Commerce.Web/pro
duct_files/HealthInsuranceandBankruptcyRates.pdf
He also probably isn't too eager to say that his desired system will be shutting off the tap of so-called 'free medical care' to millions on a regular basis based on economics. He also didn't seem to eager to quote the words of his own fellow democrats who say that grandma better get ready to "take the pain pill" and "we're going to let you die".
If you don't work, have no income, and have medical issues then you are 'medically bankrupt' even in Germany, France, and Switzerland. Zero - what a dingus. And some of you think this guy is smart?


[Krupo shakes head]

This is pretty dismal.

It's not cherry-picking to pick a well-defined topic and discuss it.

It's an absolute disgrace to take a topic of discussion and turn it into something completely different. Redefining the scope without informing others of your intent is akin to bringin a laser gatling gun to a fencing match.

Have you even for a moment considered that perhaps Canada has bankruptcy laws which may be easier for people to gain access to than the US, making it easier for them to wipe their slate clean after misfortune?

The topic at hand is regarding people who have to pay their hospital and doctor for treatment, can't, and go bankrupt.

If you go bankrupt in your personal life that is not a medical bankruptcy, that's just an ordinary bankruptcy.

So please stop twisting terms around, and encouraging other people's "junk science" - go Wiki "Fraser Institute" to note how it is, if anything, a clearinghouse for "junk science."

They're deliberately working on misleading people with your so-called study, and your twisting of the facts.

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>> ^Winstonfield_Pennypacker:
Standard neolib ad hominem bilge.

No, it's not. You really don't know what you're talking about.

Once a public option looks like a reality, alot if not ALL, the insurance companies will start scrambling to be better in every concept. They'll have to treat their customers like customers, and not cattle or peons. They'll have to revamp how they do business, or be sent to the unemployment line.

Yes, republicans want less competition, but more capitalism. Sort of oxymoron. They hate pork spending, but enjoy health care industries donating funds to their re-election funds.

I think a public option would do alot of good, for improving our country's health care system. Maybe a few less medical bankruptcies, so Sen. Al Franken can go grill other industry screwballs on things that are not being handled correctly.

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>> ^radx:
Do they intentionally place a hottie behind him every single time? And no, I don't mean the gentleman on the right.


If you go to the Congressional office buildings, you'll see these girls are a dime a dozen. Watch "Charlie Wilson's War" for elaboration - not exaggeration.

>> ^KnivesOut:
^ Vapid, empty rhetoric.


I know. I couldn't get past his second paragraph. He gets his facts straight out of his ass.

"When you come at Al Franken; you better come correct." FTW...

>> ^videosiftbannedme:
When the hell did Minnesota become the bastion of bullshit-detecting, no-nonsense free thinkers? (Not knocking Minnesota mind you...)
If I ever hear of a Ventura/Franken ticket, I think I would nut right then and there.


The movie Fargo was simply a decoy film; we WANTED you to think we were all idiots. The best part? Fargo is in North Dakota. Ha! Eh

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>> ^Winstonfield_Pennypacker:
The answer is yes - of course Al Franken is just as guilty of cherry picking his numbers. I don't care what system you talk about, there is no such thing (statistically) as a ZERO when you are talking about a population in the millions. He's either making that up, or using some report that excludes medical bankruptcies. It doesn't matter what system the U.S. cooks up in Congress - there is never going to be a single day in the entire history of humankind that there will be 'zero medical bankruptcies' in the U.S. Such a claim is absolute bunk based on "cherry picking" how you define bankruptcy.

All untrue, except possibly for the last sentence. Note that the Fraser Institute's study (and BTW, Fraser is a Canadian version of CATO), doesn't look at medical bankruptcy at all. It basically just looks at the per capita bankruptcy rate of Canada and the US, finds them similar, and declares Canada's program as being no help in general bankruptcy.

It doesn't define "medical bankruptcy" at all, nor does it attempt to breakdown the causes of bankruptcy in any way.

The latest study from the American Journal of Medicine on this topic, at least attempts to do all of those things.

He also probably isn't too eager to say that his desired system will be shutting off the tap of so-called 'free medical care' to millions on a regular basis based on economics. He also didn't seem to eager to quote the words of his own fellow democrats who say that grandma better get ready to "take the pain pill" and "we're going to let you die".

Liar liar, pants on fire. That's not what was said, dingus.

If you don't work, have no income, and have medical issues then you are 'medically bankrupt' even in Germany, France, and Switzerland. Zero - what a dingus. And some of you think this guy is smart?

Ahh, I see. So you make up your own standard of "medical bankruptcy" that doesn't match that of any reasonable person, and declare Franken a moron or liar.

"Medical bankruptcy" is shorthand for "bankruptcy caused by medical costs." There's a huge amount of wiggle room about how much medical cost means that it "caused" the bankruptcy, but it's pretty straightforward to say that if no one pays out of pocket for medical treatment, it won't make them go bankrupt.

If someone is sick, gets free care, and then goes bankrupt, they didn't go bankrupt from medical costs.

Unfortunately, we're not even talking about setting up some sort of universal, no out of pocket system for the US. What we're talking about mostly is mandated insurance, which should make it easier for families to budget their health care costs. Most of why they cause bankruptcy here is that no one plans to have major medical problems, nor do they plan on having their coverage rescinded by their insurance company, nor do they plan on getting laid off and losing their benefits.

The whole point of the health care reform is to attempt to address those issues.

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