There are some interesting points here, but it looks to me like there's so much philosophy and mysticism surrounding it that it's missing out on some real world value.

The best way to be able to feel physically confident is to know you can handle yourself with some intelligence if something unexpected comes up. Students don't necessarily realize that their physical readiness is going to be limited if they only train in Aikido.

Adding a small amount of grappling work doesn't seem like too much to ask for, and it doesn't have to conflict with Aikido's defensive philosophy.

>> ^honkeytonk73:
You don't mess with an Aikido expert, or you'll go home in a stretcher. I knew a guy who was an Aikido master. I SO wanted to learn while at university.. just no time. Damn intensive physics coursework. I very much regret not training in it.


Yeah, but my Aikido instructor in Japan admitted that in a real bar-fight he got involved in, it was his Judo techniques that won the day for him. As other posters have mentioned, Aikido is great for mental discipline, body awareness, etc.

In terms of practical fighting technique, my one gripe with Aikido has always been that it prepares you for guys who are throwing the haymaker or trying to end the fight with a single punch or kick, but not for the more technical fighters (like boxers) who are content to pick away at you with jabs, pretty much denying you the use of much of your techniques. It also doesn't take into account fighting in an enclosed space(such as a crowded bar or elevator) where mobility is extremely limited and you're much more likely to have to grapple.

Not saying it isn't a great martial art--it is. Especially the way the Japanese train, you get a hell of a good physical and mental workout. If you're taking Aikido classes because you want to be an ass-kicker, though, you're probably in the wrong place.

You would be surpised how often we hold our breath when we do something.

Funny to see a grown man, pass out because forgot to breath when taking a fall. I speak from experience.

In reply to this comment by laura:
^dude, you practice breathing? Me TOO!!!

You don't mess with an Aikido expert, or you'll go home in a stretcher. I knew a guy who was an Aikido master. I SO wanted to learn while at university.. just no time. Damn intensive physics coursework. I very much regret not training in it.

To expand on the Hakama point he makes, hakama were designed to be compatible with horse-back riding. You can't ride in a skirt, so the hakama has two pant legs. In that respect, you could make parallels between Hakama and Chaps. Within the context of combat, however, they're long enough to obscure your feet if you just barely bend your knees, and hiding your footwork can help hide what you're going to do next - its one less thing your foe can read about your moves.

Regarding Ukemi, yeah, he makes some good points. If you're going to practice the technique, you need to know how to "take" the technique. Learning the proper way to roll-out and high-fall is a very big part of learning Aikido. And its not that uke are taught to not resist techniques, on the contrary - it may be very beneficial for an uke to resist application of technique, in order to ensure nage understands some of the deeper principles behind some techniques. - this tends to happen more in classes specific for yudansha training (and boy, did my wrists hurt after those classes...). But resisting joint-locks and pins can lead to some nasty injuries, and part of learning ukemi is learning how to minimize the risk of injury in those techniques.

The kid sounds like a seasoned beginner who's probably had to field the tough questions about the "real-world" applications of Aikido. And if I were his sensei, I'd be proud of the way he articulates some good counter-points.

Next time I hear someone ask some "real-world" questions, I'm showing them the police handcuff techniques, though.

Since you have posted several aikido videos, I thought you might like this one:

http://www.videosift.com/video/Soke-Don-Angier-86-Aiki-Festival-Highlight-Aiki-Jujutsu

Long, but very interesting and instructive.

Aw, I like the Aikido vids you've been posting. Makes me think back to the days of my Aikido training. And I would disagree with you about Ikkyo and Nikkyo not being effective if your uke is kneeling. He doesn't finish those techniques because first, he doesn't need to; he already has full control of his uke with the joint-lock, and second, to finish those techniques he'd have to go down to the ground with him, at least that's how those are traditionally taught.

The first technique is a variation of Shiho-nage. Shiho-nage can be translated to "four-directions throw" because of the multiple variations there are. Here, we see the entering form, where you enter the technique by moving your center of gravity under your uke's arm. The turning form has you turning your body around the outside of the arm, but since your uke ends up on his back, its less effective within the context of handcuffing techniques. You want your uke to end up on his belly if you want to cuff him.

The second is Sankyo. You hold your uke's arm as if you were holding a sword. As long as you are turning his arm towards his center, he cannot break free. It can be very painful to resist. If uke tries to strike at you with his free hand, you can apply more torque, which forces him to move away from you.

The third looks like a variation of Kaiten-nage, but I'm not 100% sure. It is an effective shoulder-lock, though.

The fourth is Nikkyo, performed from a two-handed chokehold.

The fifth is Kote-gaeshi, from mune-tsuki. Steven Seagal uses that one a lot in his movies, because if you torque the joint-lock at chest-height, your uke has to take a high-fall over his own arm, or risk breaking it - it looks very flashy when you perform it that way. You can be kinder, and let him down to the ground easier, though.

The sixth could either be another Kote-gaeshi variation, or a nikkyo variant, I can't see his hands well enough. Either way, its a very simple but effective joint lock.

The seventh starts out as an ikkyo, but I don't know the technical term for that elbow torque. I should also note that Ikkyo is called the "first principle" for a reason. If you can get into ikkyo, you can change up to nikkyo, sankyo, or yonkyo very easily. Well, yonkyo is a little harder, because it's a pressure-point-based technique, but Nikkyo was always one of my favorites because of how easy it can be to apply it, especially if you start from an ikkyo. One of my favorite things to do in a Ran-dori (gang attack exercise) was to get one uke into either nikkyo or sankyo and then use him as a shield to interfere with the rest of my training partners, before eventually forcing him into a roll-out.

The eighth and ninth are more variations of nikkyo, one from an ushiro (blind attack) bear hug, the next from a one handed chokehold. The same principle can be applied to a lapel-grab.

The finishing locks he uses aren't always the traditional locks that are taught - he's altered some to make it easier to cuff his uke without sacrificing efficacy.

I've posted before that these techniques are very old, and have stood up against the test of time. While Aikido itself is rather young, the concepts it borrows from are not - they come from ancient Jujitsu principles.

Man I miss training. Keep posting more vids like this, and I just might force myself to find a dojo around here...

Great video! An example of how to meet force with serenity. The artist didn't have to do more. He made his point. As for the skinheads torching his house, I bet that skinhead was kicked out of the club for letting a dweeb clean his clock.

I'd like to see a movie made with this kind of use of martial arts. Seagal's first movie was, at least partly, in the spirit of Aikido. The others are just gratuitously violent. What about a movie where the bad guys are dealt with in peace and maybe even tamed? No explosions, no compound fractures, even no blood. What a concept. Remember Kung Fu on TV? Google it.

Let the trainee decide what is right for them.

We do this style because we want to, not because there is money involved.

You have to train in an art to understand it, and its all about finding the right school. I advocate Cross training, but I am just a 6th kyu.

In reply to this comment by chilaxe:
Thanks for taking my questioning in good spirit; I do agree with you guys on a number of points.


If there are any videos of Aikido applied in real situations, not just collusion sped up, I would be interested in seeing them. I searched for Tomiki Aikido and just found YouTube videos that are collusive or not resembling realistic struggle (e.g., e.g.2), which is fine, but just not what I'm looking for.

After the first UFCs, we didn't have to just take on faith the claims of different martial arts. The result was generally that in a 1 on 1 fight, an unarmed combatant not trained to defend against take downs and submissions was relatively powerless (sometimes humorously so) against the ground game of brazilian ju-jitu. Since then, strikers have become more well-rounded in that respect and have been more successful.

The claims that non-collusive sparring can't be done using Aikido without hurting the opponent too badly can be tested easily against a mixed martial artist willing to risk broken arms, wrists, fingers etc. (he won't think it's much of a risk). I believe this issue is only going to grow, as mixed martial arts is growing rapidly, with viewership of the monthly UFC events eclipsing boxing and sometimes even baseball viewership among the under 40 generation.


Isn't it a good cause to encourage Aikido to back up its claims, or to utilize more realistic sparring? UFC champs become millionaires, so there does seem to be ample incentive to participate.

Thanks again; I understand you guys are very experienced, so I have found your responses interesting.

Many of the people involved in aikido are not heavy trainers. I train 4 days a week, and do other things on my off time.

I have thought about the sparring aspect of aikido. We do resistance training, but for the most part there are only a few of us that do this sort of training.

Many of the practitioners are simply not fit for that kind of training. Those who train "for real", have a background in some other school.

Thanks for taking my questioning in good spirit; I do agree with you guys on a number of points.


If there are any videos of Aikido applied in real situations, not just collusion sped up, I would be interested in seeing them. I searched for Tomiki Aikido and just found YouTube videos that are collusive or not resembling realistic struggle (e.g., e.g.2), which is fine, but just not what I'm looking for.

After the first UFCs, we didn't have to just take on faith the claims of different martial arts. The result was generally that in a 1 on 1 fight, an unarmed combatant not trained to defend against take downs and submissions was relatively powerless (sometimes humorously so) against the ground game of brazilian ju-jitu. Since then, strikers have become more well-rounded in that respect and have been more successful.

The claims that non-collusive sparring can't be done using Aikido without hurting the opponent too badly can be tested easily against a mixed martial artist willing to risk broken arms, wrists, fingers etc. (he won't think it's much of a risk). I believe this issue is only going to grow, as mixed martial arts is growing rapidly, with viewership of the monthly UFC events eclipsing boxing and sometimes even baseball viewership among the under 40 generation.


Isn't it a good cause to encourage Aikido to back up its claims, or to utilize more realistic sparring? UFC champs become millionaires, so there does seem to be ample incentive to participate.

Thanks again; I understand you guys are very experienced, so I have found your responses interesting.

While Competition is for the most part shunned by the Aikido community, "Tomiki" Aikido was developed to introduce Aikido to Japanese School systems and to replace existing Judo programs by adapting it to a competitive setting.

Basically, Tomiki Aikido competition is performed with one competitor wielding a wooden dagger (a Tanto), while his opponent attempts to disarm him. Points are scored to the wielder for successful attacks with the dagger, and to the unarmed for performing successful takeaways - the dagger is then placed on the ground and he retreats to neutral territory to await the next attack. Halfway through the round, they switch roles.

As NordlichReiter pointed out, Aikido-ka are trained first and foremost to avoid confrontation. We are trained to diffuse situations with diplomacy to let cooler heads prevail.

Chilax, you would be VERY surprised to see just how effective these techniques are in "street" settings, and as I said before, these Aikidoka are very skilled. The techniques they demonstrate are based on concepts that are centuries old, and have survived the test of time. Not to mention that Aikidoka are trained to take falls and throws with control and grace. Most Yudansha (that is, those who have attained a first-degree black belt or higher, usually requiring 5+ years of dedicated training) gain not only the requisite toughness through ukemi (safe-falling), but the confidence to tap into their knowledge at a moment's notice. Irimi-nage, and Kote-Gaeshi, as well as the perennial hip-throw technique, Koshi-nage, are all swift techniques that use your opponents energy against them while exposing the user to very minimal risk, and Aikidoka are trained to initiate these techniques from a wide variety of attacks.

You can divide basic hand-to-hand attacks into two basic categories: grabs, and strikes. Strikes can be further subdivided into at least three deliveries - from a tsuki, or thrusting attack (like a punch), shomen-uchi (a vertical-motion attack, like a hammer swinging downward), and yokomen-uchi (a horizontal-slashing attack, like a slash with a dagger or sword). Grabs are more numerous: same-side grabs to your wrist, cross-side wrist grabs, both wrists grabbed at the same time, two-hands grabbing one wrist, lapel grabs, chokes, grabs from behind like sleeper-holds... the list goes on. Aikidoka learn the basic techniques, such as Ikkyo, from simple grabs and shomen-uchi strikes in the beginning, and move on the more advanced techniques from stronger attacks as they progress.

You don't start by teaching a white belt hip-throws before they know the basic concepts of ma-ai (literally "distance harmony" or your basic attack range - I'm 6'1", so my ma-ai is going to be wider than someone say 5'5"), the importance of being centered and grounded (you're going to be supporting the weight of your attacker on your hip, if you don't know how to keep your feet and knees, you'll buckle under their weight), or the ukemi to take the fall without injuring yourself.

In some rare forms on Aikido there are competitions.

I wrestle and box on a regular basis, with training partners from Aikido, and judo.

But for the most part I have to separate the two because there are people there that could (Kick my ass) and I could in return kick ass.

I train with military and law enforcement types, so its not the crap you would see at a demonstration.

In an environment where there are rules one can expect an outcome.

In an environment were there are no rules one can expect a death or serious maiming. We could argue the drawbacks of MMA style and Aikido Style all day, and it would be a good discourse.

"There are many styles of Wushu. One style is not better than the other, there is only difference in skill." -Jet Li's Character in Fearless.

You would never see me in a street fight, because I would either mace, taze or shoot the assailant. No reason for me to get my hands dirty.

Many of us will never see a trained person in a real fight that does not involve emotion, we will unlikely see a confrontation with Wu Wei action. Because these confrontations usually end badly, for both parties.

What I do know is that in a life and death situation we can not be sure of any thing. There is no definite outcome.

I would never want to be on the ground with any one, once on the ground we are completely weak to attacks from other opponents.

Train to end all combat with in the instant it was started.

I wish these wold work in real life like that. Bullet time and all.

In reply to this comment by chilaxe:
Would these really work in non-sport settings? In the first form he blocks a strike and has time to get in 3 strikes while his opponent remains frozen in time

Beautiful. Aikido is truly a beautiful art in action.

Good description, but I'd consider Yonkyo more of a pressure-point technique than a small joint technique, and an advanced technique at that. I never could find the point consistently in the four years I trained.

I should note that Aikido is very rarely taught like this - these are very advanced Aikido-ka demonstrating atemi techniques that aren't usually taught to beginners, and with good very reason. It is VERY easy to injure your partner practicing like this. You can see at the end that the kick seemed to catch the uke off guard.

http://www.fightingmaster.com/masters/ueshiba/quotes.htm

That page has a good selection of quotations from the founder of the art, but I had to do some digging for one that always stood out in my mind during training:

"Aikido is not a technique to fight with or to defeat the enemy. It is a way to reconcile the world and make human beings one family."