That's why NY and NJ ACLU released a cellphone apps http://www.nyclu.org/app & http://www.aclu-nj.org/yourrights/the-app-place/ that records police interactions and automatically uploads it to ACLU's website so that if cops try to delete that recording from your phone, there's a backup copy.

>> ^messenger:

@packo
I've recently become interested in what conservative politics looks like. I'm realizing I've probably never seen it in my lifetime.


You have seen what conservative politics looks like. The ACLU is conservative, it fights to defend the constitutions original wording.

So you'd be cool with a banner that read "There is no God, and those that believe in him are delusional" hanging next to it?>> ^quantumushroom:

It's preposterous that a banner donated by one of the school's graduating glasses--a banner no one is required or coerced to read--is equated with establishing a state-sponsored religion. But then, this is the ACLU hard at work.

I am for socialism, disarmament, and, ultimately, for abolishing the state itself... I seek the social ownership of property, the abolition of the propertied class, and the sole control of those who produce wealth. Communism is the goal. ---ACLU founder Roger Baldwin

What is it about this banner that makes you think that it isn't school sponsored? That they didn't pay for it? But they still display it on their property- property which the state pays for, and which the students are forced to attend. It doesn't matter that it can be ignored, or who paid for it. Its presence is a violation of the First Amendment.

>> ^quantumushroom:

It's preposterous that a banner donated by one of the school's graduating glasses--a banner no one is required or coerced to read--is equated with establishing a state-sponsored religion. But then, this is the ACLU hard at work.

I don't understand...how can the school board not comply with the judges ruling? How is this an issue, get the cops in there to take it down and fuck off.

Also and I know this is going to blow your mind QM, but the ACLU is a conservative organization. They fight to uphold the Bill of Rights, and interpret it in a very conservative way. That's what conservative means you see.

It's preposterous that a banner donated by one of the school's graduating glasses--a banner no one is required or coerced to read--is equated with establishing a state-sponsored religion. But then, this is the ACLU hard at work.


I am for socialism, disarmament, and, ultimately, for abolishing the state itself... I seek the social ownership of property, the abolition of the propertied class, and the sole control of those who produce wealth. Communism is the goal. ---ACLU founder Roger Baldwin

>> ^mxxcon:

This is hardly "Controversy". Enforcing one's constitutional rights is not controversial!


I agree, but judging by these comments, some officers don't:
http://www.policeone.com/Officer-Safety/articles/5813385-ACLU-releases-stealth-app-to-tape-NJ-police/

I wish he could have gotten more done, but he's a step in the right direction and heads and tails above the 8 sad Republican offerings. Even with all the complaints leveled against him, he still came out above his Republican opponents on the ACLU civil liberties scorecard.

Even though this isn't about the ACLU. I have to point out that the ACLU isn't even Left...they're conservative. They defend the constitution...they do not deviate from it, and they can by no stretch of the english language be considered "Activists".

They may have been founded by someone who believes in Communism but that's like saying the Ford corporation is full of Nazi's...it just isn't and you're an idiot if you believe that.

What this is is lazy intellectualism...basically you have a fact and you use that to prove anything and everything about a certain topic without actually questioning your own assumptions or testing your theories. Don't listen to people who are lazy intellectuals; you'll end up fighting for ignorance.

>> ^quantumushroom:

Only to Jehovah's Witnesses.

That's exactly my point. Aside from the population numbers, how is applying Jehovah's Witness beliefs to the entire country via laws any different than applying Christian beliefs to the entire country via laws?

>> ^quantumushroom:

The ACLU was never a well-meaning organization, IMO. They've done 'some' good, but as you here at least are indifferent to the God/Trust on money, etc., those guys are, by comparison, radical and intolerant.


I'm not at all indifferent to God on money and in the pledge and such, I'm just saying "Never mind, for a minute, what the law is, let's talk about what the law should be."

Crosses in military graveyards is a new one for me. I think that should be the choice of the deceased individual or their surviving family.

@xxovercastxx

As for nativity scenes on government property, the commandments in courthouses, "God" on money and in the pledge, etc. Whether these are forbidden by the establishment clause or not, why should the government be proselytizing? Isn't that big government authoritarianism?

>>> Yeah, in a sense it's BS that any of that happens. I was an atheist for one half of my life and I resented the hypocrisy. Religion and law are like a double helix so the degree of freedom we have is amazing.

And finally, in what I hope might help to illustrate my point, I pose this question to you three: How would you feel about a law banning blood transfusion? It's a serious sin, you know.

Only to Jehovah's Witnesses.

The ACLU was never a well-meaning organization, IMO. They've done 'some' good, but as you here at least are indifferent to the God/Trust on money, etc., those guys are, by comparison, radical and intolerant.

@MonkeySpank

Every time you label things like "communist-founded ACLU," etc., you bring down the entire discourse to poop-hurling and name-calling.

Do you know why I "labeled" it communist-founded ACLU? Because it was!

I am for Socialism, disarmament and ultimately, for the abolishing of the State itself … I seek the social ownership of property, the abolition of the propertied class and sole control of those who produce wealth. Communism is the goal.

--Roger Baldwin, founder of the ACLU in 1920, speaking in 1935

I'll ask you the following questions:

1) Do you believe in evolution?

>>> A Creator created evolution.

2) Do you think that government, a protocol of civil conduct, is always flawed; and therefore it should be minimized or eliminated?

>>> It's always flawed in the sense that it's run by humans, not angels. Corruption is the grease of democracy; the greater the size of the government, the more tyrannical.

3) Do you believe in the passage "But love your enemies, do good to them, and lend to them without expecting to get anything back." Luke 6:35; do you live by it?

>>> As much as possible, but I imagine everyone thinks that. Also, sometimes the best way to love your enemies is to end their karma in this lifetime.

4) Do you believe in divorce and interest rates? Would you oppose them if you could vote against them?

>>> No, but we pay a heavy price for each.

5) Do you believe in a non-profit Universal Healthcare, or something similar? Mark 3:10

>>> It doesn't work, so no. Do I believe in helping those who truly need help? Yes.

6) What countries do you like besides the United States?

>>> There are other countries? I like some aspects of some countries. Japanese ninjas, Canadian Shatner, etc.

7) Would you support a war against Iran?

>>> Yes, as needed. You really want to allow nutjobs to have The Bomb? Say goodbye to Nuked York.

Do you believe that Mexicans, the original owners of this land, are free loaders when we arbitrarily set a border south of AZ, NM, CA, and TX and decided to call their migration "illegal"?

>>> We won those states by winning wars with Mexico. We are all trespassers on dinosaur land.

9) What would be one good thing can you say about Obama, although I am not a fan of his, to show any lack of bias?

>>> He's an eloquent speaker.



1) Do you believe in evolution?
2) Do you think that government, a protocol of civil conduct, is always flawed; and therefore it should be minimized or eliminated?
3) Do you believe in the passage "But love your enemies, do good to them, and lend to them without expecting to get anything back." Luke 6:35; do you live by it?
4) Do you believe in divorce and interest rates? Would you oppose them if you could vote against them?
5) Do you believe in a non-profit Universal Healthcare, or something similar? Mark 3:10
6) What countries do like besides the United States?
7) Would you support a war against Iran?
Do you believe that Mexicans, the original owners of this land, are free loaders when we arbitrarily set a border south of AZ, NM, CA, and TX and decided to call their migration "illegal"?
9) What would be one good thing can you say about Obama, although I am not a fan of his, to show any lack of bias?

>> ^quantumushroom:


The communist-founded ACLU has taken upon itself to decide that all mentions of religion in the public circle are, in fact, establishing a government religion, which is rubbish.


Every time you label things like "communist-founded ACLU," etc., you bring down the entire discourse to poop-hurling and name-calling. A good argument is one that sits on the fence. I'll ask you the following questions:

1) Do you believe in evolution?
2) Do you think that government, a protocol of civil conduct, is always flawed; and therefore it should be minimized or eliminated?
3) Do you believe in the passage "But love your enemies, do good to them, and lend to them without expecting to get anything back." Luke 6:35; do you live by it?
4) Do you believe in divorce and interest rates? Would you oppose them if you could vote against them?
5) Do you believe in a non-profit Universal Healthcare, or something similar? Mark 3:10
6) What countries do like besides the United States?
7) Would you support a war against Iran?
Do you believe that Mexicans, the original owners of this land, are free loaders when we arbitrarily set a border south of AZ, NM, CA, and TX and decided to call their migration "illegal"?
9) What would be one good thing can you say about Obama, although I am not a fan of his, to show any lack of bias?

I understand where you're coming from @jonny, but the 1st Amendment is plain and clear about the 'level' of 'freedom from religion' and it's only the aforementioned.

The communist-founded ACLU has taken upon itself to decide that all mentions of religion in the public circle are, in fact, establishing a government religion, which is rubbish.

The words "Under God" in the pledge are not a religion.
Putting 'In God We Trust' on money is not a religion.
A cross in a military cemetery or public park is not a religion.

The Ten Commandments posted on a courthouse wall? A little more controversial, but not a religion.

Peeps in a free society have no right to live free 'from' encountering speech or ideas they don't agree with.


>> ^jonny:

>> ^quantumushroom:
There is no legal anything found anywhere guaranteeing "freedom from religion". The State is not allowed to establish a religion or promote one religion above others. That's it.
The statements are plainly contradictory. The 1st amendment guarantees freedom from a government religion or any promotion of religion by the government. Also, as Boise_Lib notes above, it's impossible to have true freedom of religion without also having freedom from any other religion being imposed upon you. Intelligent people may disagree over whether certains actions constitute imposition of religious principles or doctrine, but the idea that the Constitution does not guarantee a level of freedom from religion is patently false.

Ummm I've never heard of this ACLU thinks that child porn is a 1st amendment right. The ACLU is a notoriously conservative organization defending the constitution more than anything and upholding it's originality. Conservatives never want to admit that but that's really all they do is use the constitution and defend people by using it's original text. That makes them distinctly not radical but conservative...if you understand what conservative means.