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universities are digging their own graves

MilkmanDan says...

Wow. Great sift.

I went to a state university in Kansas in the early 2000s, so this stuff is after my time and probably centered more in the Ivy League type places. But still, so much rings true and also helps explain the why.

Being a teacher at the High School age range in Thailand has been very interesting. So many things different, with plenty of pros and cons compared to my own experience. Cliques exist here, but aren't as antagonistic toward each other as they were when I was in school. Kids here are massively more accepting towards different groups like LGBT, LD/autistic/whatever, socially awkward academic nerds, etc. I'm sure the change in perspective from student to teacher influences my perceptions of this, but bullying seems essentially nonexistent here compared to rampant when I was in school.

Anyway, it seems to me like one thing that could really help dig us out of this mess is real multiculturalism and diversity (as opposed to what the SJW types that Haidt describes in the video would affix those words to). Knowing more about how other cultures and countries do things and being able to objectively compare and figure out alternative ways of doing things that might be better/worse is extremely useful.

The Dolly Zoom: More Than A Cheap Trick

dannym3141 says...

This is not necessarily on topic, but good grief i never realised pictures of someone's face could look so different. The bit at 1:37 with the woman's face was a revelation! I didn't know that happened, and it kind of explains some pictures i've accidentally taken with forward facing cameras (and been horrified by). I always thought i must have good/bad days and look terrible sometimes, but that explains a lot.

In Thailand i had a picture taken on a tree-platform-zipline 80 feet in the air, sweaty, red, disheveled and sleepless... and it's the best picture i've ever seen of me, and my skin looked uniform and nice, not red and damp as it did in a mirror there. Sorry for off-topic, but how the feck does that work? It wasn't airbrushed or anything, they had very little time for processing. I feel like 50% of my mystery has been answered in that one moment of the video!

Why Do Americans Smile So Much?

MilkmanDan says...

Thailand, where I live now is called the "Land of Smiles". But I ran into some hiccups trying to fit in that conform to some of what the video said:

Basically, the "Land of Smiles" thing is pretty accurate -- generally Thais want to keep a (somewhat subdued) smile on their face. Even/particularly in frustrating/aggravating situations; Thais are extremely confrontation-averse and I think the smiling is a cultural adaptation to try to defuse those situations before they escalate.

BUT, when I first came here, I caught on to the "try to smile through all situations" culture but kind of went overboard on the enthusiasm in what I gather might be a typically American way. One time some Thais that I knew were introducing me to somebody that I hadn't met before. The new person didn't speak any English, and I couldn't speak much of any Thai at the time, so I was just trying to smile through the awkward second-hand introduction. Since I was just passively sitting back and smiling, the new person asked my friends if I was a "special person" -- a direct translation from Thai which means exactly the same thing that it does in English.

So I guess even in the "Land of Smiles", going overboard can make people think you're a bit dim...

Magic on Bed.

Do you think this practice belongs to another age?

MilkmanDan says...

I've been to bull fights in Spain (when I was very young) and Mexico. Also cock fights in Mexico and Thailand, and water buffalo fighting in Thailand. Water buffalo fights are very different than bullfighting though: two buffalo bulls lock horns and push each other around to establish dominance until one tires out and runs away. Injuries / deaths to the "losing" buffalo are possible but pretty rare. Actually, it ends up being pretty similar to fights that males would do to establish dominance in nature without any human intervention.

Basically, I'm not strongly opposed to or in favor of any of those. Cruel and unnecessary? Sure. But nature itself is frequently pretty cruel also. I don't feel the need to support any of these activities by paying to watch or betting on outcomes, but I don't really begrudge those that do. Often a lot of cultural momentum to overcome if you want to put these things in the past (where they belong?).

Upvote because this video was well done in technical terms, and because it makes an argument against bullfighting (and arguably other similar practices) to those that support it without being too abrasive about it.

SNL - Easter Message from Sean Spicer

I grew up in the Westboro Baptist Church.

MilkmanDan says...

I grew up in a Christian home (Methodist) but never really bought in and considered myself an atheist from about ~12 years old or so.

@poolcleaner said that atheists might be the worst at "respect(ing) my beliefs and recogniz(ing) that I am not recruiting them and they are not recruiting me".

There's two parts of that. Respecting other beliefs, and not proselytizing.

Just speaking for myself, I would say that I am an atheist specifically because I don't respect the Christian beliefs that I grew up with, and feel much the same way about the dogmatic elements of any religion. Most religions share the basic tenet of the "Golden Rule" (or claim that they do), and as far as I am concerned that is the only thing of value to be found in any religion -- although it can exist perfectly fine outside of any religious context.

That's where proselytizing comes in though. For a while when I was younger, I wanted to "spread the good news" of atheism -- to show others what was so obvious and important to me, that idea that the Golden Rule works just as well outside of any religious context. I was "indignant" (as poolcleaner put it) and quick to tell people that I am atheist and to sort of "pick a fight" about it. I wanted to show people just how stupid and wrong they were.

I think LOTS of atheists are like that, especially early on after they part ways with religion. To be fair, a lot of that is defensiveness since atheists tend to get proselytized to a LOT by Christians that learn/discover that they are an atheist -- especially in the US.

Now I'm 20 years older and I live in a country that is 95% Buddhist, 4% Islamic, and 1% Christian/Other. Thailand isn't even really close to the most diverse Asian country in religious terms (Singapore has 5 religions with 10%+ of the population, with Buddhist being the most at 34%) but there is an air of practiced religious acceptance / tolerance here that is WAY different from back home in the US.

I'd wager that amongst the major religions, Christianity might contain the highest percentage of the "proselytizing type" -- those that really strongly believe in the message enough to want to spread it to those who don't, or those that have never really questioned their beliefs but who nonetheless buy in enough to think that it is important to get it out there. On the other hand, there are many more Christians who may be very strong believers but who are comfortable keeping that all internal and not proselytizing.

With atheists, I'd say that there is a high correlation between being very "out" / open about their atheism and being the "proselytizing type" of atheist. So, if you know that someone is an atheist, it is fairly likely that they will be a bit "indignant" about it. If someone is an atheist but doesn't feel the need to inform others about it, most people would never know/assume they were an atheist. I'm not talking about "closeted" atheists; just the difference between those who are going to tell you within 10 minutes of meeting you that they are an atheist without the subject ever coming up, and those that will only mention it if you directly ask them about it.

Keeping that it mind, I can actually believe that from an outside perspective, known atheists might be more aggressive than known Christians just due to that sort of selection bias. Maybe.

ChaosEngine said:

Atheists are the worst? Seriously??

I don't think you can honestly say that with a straight face.

Mordhaus (Member Profile)

John Oliver - Thailand is obsessed with Adolf Hitler

poolcleaner says...

I know a lot of people from Thailand, mostly second gen Thai Americans, but some Viet, Mong, and Cambodians whose parents were in refugee camps in Thailand or who worked at those refugee camps. I don't live in Thailand though, so I'm giving a second/third person account, but several of my friends who have Thai influences laugh and joke about the Hitler thing. Nothing shocking to someone who lived in BKK or had parents who did. I feel thankful for having grown up with Thai people, all of whom i met in honors and AP classes in high school.

But basically what that means is, I don't know any of these misinformed Thai people, just those that left Thailand for America and tell tales of their homeland.

@MilkmanDan, thanks for filling in some the gaps of my knowledge with your exp!

Mordhaus (Member Profile)

John Oliver - Thailand is obsessed with Adolf Hitler

noims says...

I'd be very interested to know what the first few results would be if the average person in Thailand did google Hitler. Given that they tailor their results to what they think you're looking for, I wouldn't be surprised if it's not what you'd expect.

John Oliver - Thailand is obsessed with Adolf Hitler

MilkmanDan says...

Thanks for referring me here, @eric3579.

It's all true. The bit about pretty much zero world history being taught in schools is correct, but in a way that just makes it all the MORE puzzling.

I teach high school level students English. I do a unit on "Local Heroes" where my students learn a little bit about significant people from native English speaking countries. To get the theme across, I start with a Thai guy named Phraya Phichai who is a very significant person in the province where I live. From there I talk about Elvis Presley or Amelia Earhart for the US, Lord Nelson for England, William Wallace for Scotland, Nelson Mandela for South Africa, etc. to demonstrate people who have a similar kind of significance to people from those states/countries.

After that unit, during oral testing I ask every student to name their favorite historical figure / hero other than the ones we covered. Single most common response: the King of Thailand (the one that just died last year was and still is extremely respected / revered by Thais). But the second most common response: Hitler. By a pretty wide margin. I'd say 30%+ say the King, and nearly 10% say Hitler. Random sports players, musicians, etc. make up most of the rest -- but none with a big chunk of the responses like those 2.

I used to be pretty shocked by all of that kind of stuff here (I've seen the shirts, chicken restaurant, nazi flags for sale, etc.) but I guess I'm pretty numb to it by now. No idea what the source of it is, because it really does seem quite strange that Hitler isn't covered in schools here, yet somehow people seem to learn broad strokes about him enough for him to be oddly "popular". Whatever the source of that is, it seems to filter out the stuff that should make him infamous as opposed to a general pop culture sort of famous.

MilkmanDan (Member Profile)

Kids Cover "46 and 2" By Tool and Kill It

MilkmanDan says...

Nice promote @eric3579

I try to keep the torch alive on this one by incorporating the song (specifically this cover) into English classes for my high school age students in Thailand. Made a worksheet where students try to fill in the blanks, order phrases in the chorus in the right sequence, etc.

The Thai students usually enjoy it -- even the ones that are generally more into Lady Gaga / Justin Bieber. After filling in the worksheet I play the Tool original, but the students find it much easier to hear and identify the words in this cover.

Godless – The Truth Beyond Belief

MilkmanDan says...

The USA isn't the worst place to not conform to the standard state religion. ...But it sure as hell isn't the best either.

Growing up atheist (I started identifying myself that way around age 12-13 or so) in the bible belt (Kansas) in the 80's was tough. Not as tough as growing up gay at the same time/place, but I get the feeling that Millennials are miles beyond my generation (late Gen X) in terms of accepting sexuality. I don't think they have made as great strides in accepting atheists / religious differences, but progress has been made there also compared to my day.

About 10 years ago I moved to Thailand. I went from 85-90% Christian USA to 95% Buddhist Thailand. And yet even though I'm in an even smaller minority as an atheist here, it simply isn't an issue at all compared with back in the US. I don't think Christianity itself is to blame for that, because one can comfortably be an atheist in some other countries with rates of self-identifying Christians similar to the US. No, I think it is a cultural problem largely unique to the US. Which certainly contributes to my high level of comfort as an expat.



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