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Gratefulmom (Member Profile)

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Aziraphale (Member Profile)

bareboards2 says...

Isn't it so much more fun to actually exchange information and points of view, rather than getting snotty? I love it.

Maybe we are talking a bit at cross purposes. (Like, that has never happened before on teh intertubes, right?)

I try not to "re-edit" or "re-imagine" videos. I'm sure I do it -- I often do things that I later complain that other people do. This comment goes back more to your first response to me, however it applies to this comment, too. The idea that the video would be better if it this'd, or that'd, or it fails to do this other thing that it wasn't even trying to do. The concept of being conscious of "the bigger picture" is what I am addressing here.

However, isn't it just YOUR vision of what the bigger picture is that you say is missing? Because for me, I see a bigger picture being addressed quite nicely -- the vision that the video maker set out to address.

I wonder if the nebulous nature of your instinctive dislike to this video is indeed EXACTLY what the video maker was setting out to illuminate? Or rather, decided to be not obsequious to? Like women have been taught to be obsequious for eons?

I notice that you are sure that your difficult-to-describe instinctive reactions are "correct." What if it is actually your own internalized and unexamined sexism? I know you say thunderfoot bugs you, too. I also know that all my impassioned information about how women across cultures and time are expected to "tone it down" wasn't addressed in your response to me.

That is the elephant in the room here, as far as I am concerned. Sure, "condescension" is gender neutral. The whole video, though, is about sexism and the unconscious ways that it leaks out. I don't see you addressing that in your response -- except maybe, MAYBE, it is this nebulous and difficult thing you are struggling to understand and maybe, MAYBE, it needs to be examined and understood.

So maybe look at your feelings through that prism?

I say this as someone who has their own internalized sexism (towards men and women both) that I am constantly trying to identify and own and uproot. Racism, too. I so want to be the person who, like Stephen Colbert of old, who doesn't see race. And yet I do and I am mortified by it and I try to push through that lizard brain instinct and the training of my youth.

Something to think about maybe?

Or not. Maybe it just is as simple as you don't like the humor in the video, and I do. There are differences in taste, after all.

I suspect, though, that it is much more complex than that -- as you said, "maybe I'm going into it with the notion that I'm going to be offended anyway."

Aziraphale said:

First off, let me thank you for your kind words, and for engaging thoughtfully and civilly. I really respect anyone who can do that. So first, "poisonous" is probably not the right word, but I did feel like I was being talked down to. Possibly just because I'm oversensitive, or maybe I'm going into it with the notion that I'm going to be offended anyway, I'm not sure. It's not easy for me to put into concise language the nebulous feelings that float around in my brain.

Also, I'm almost certain that if the presenter had been a male, with the same tone, I would have found it equally as off-putting. As I said, thunderf00t is a dude that I mostly agree with, and I find his patronizing attitude to be... unhelpful at best.

In the end, I can't come up with a good rationalization for why the video should be any different. We shouldn't all be emotionless robots, and these issues *should* be talked about, but at the risk of falling into a relative privation fallacy, I think we all should be conscious of the bigger picture when creating content like this.

Cheers.

Gratefulmom (Member Profile)

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