>> ^Lann:

I did the same thing with a classmate around 2nd grade. We made "computer games" by drawing on cards and taping them to the "screen" and then trading them. Can't figure out why no one else wanted in on that action. What's so great about kick ball anyway?>> ^ant:
>> ^TheSluiceGate:
I used to make little "pinball" machines at his age, with box-tops, elastics, pencils and marbles. But this kid is an imagination god!

When I was in fourth grade, I made a computer out of cardboard. It was based on my real Apple //c.



I used to sew black ninja-suits for my TMNT figures.

Funny,
I did the exact same thing, with wood planks, elastic bands and laundry pins.

>> ^TheSluiceGate:

I used to make little "pinball" machines at his age, with box-tops, elastics, pencils and marbles. But this kid is an imagination god!

I did the same thing with a classmate around 2nd grade. We made "computer games" by drawing on cards and taping them to the "screen" and then trading them. Can't figure out why no one else wanted in on that action. What's so great about kick ball anyway?>> ^ant:

>> ^TheSluiceGate:
I used to make little "pinball" machines at his age, with box-tops, elastics, pencils and marbles. But this kid is an imagination god!

When I was in fourth grade, I made a computer out of cardboard. It was based on my real Apple //c.

>> ^TheSluiceGate:

I used to make little "pinball" machines at his age, with box-tops, elastics, pencils and marbles. But this kid is an imagination god!


When I was in fourth grade for a class project, I made a computer out of cardboard with scrollable screen with a wheel or something. It was based on my real Apple //c.

I used to make little "pinball" machines at his age, with box-tops, elastics, pencils and marbles. But this kid is an imagination god!

>> ^kceaton1:

I could destroy her whole concept by reducing the entire mathematical world to a structure scheme that can ONLY be ever displayed as a fractional environment, except for 0 or infinity, as they are special forces unto Math.

Vi actually covers this briefly when she talks about Hyperreals. Also, you wouldn't be destroying her whole concept by reducing the mathematical world to a fractional environment, as this already exists: What you describe is the set of Rational Numbers, where all numbers can be expressed as a fraction of two integers. .999... is still describable as the series 9/10 + 9/100 + 9/1000... so the concept is still sound, and still sums to 1 (or 1/1). As an aside, 0 is a rational number and can be expressed as a fraction as well. Infinity is not a number.

Finally, in before "Now you're just nitpicking" or "You don't have to be a dick." At this level, nitpicking and checking for consistency is what Mathematics is all about, so please expect it.

>> ^kceaton1:

So I would ask her this question concerning .9999~ not equaling one. If we take two pinballs and start to count all the electrons--but, midway through we strip ONE electron from one pin; essentially making this our .9999~ pinball. By the time we get done counting the electrons which pinball will have less and which will have more? Well the problem is that IN FACT the pinball that had one taken off could actually NOW have more than the other pinball. So do either actually equal one?

There is a fundamental flaw in this reasoning, which is that the number of electrons in both pinballs is finite. You will eventually stop counting, and when you divide (electrons in Pinball A) by (electrons in Pinball B) you end up with a rational number which is not 1, but also not equal to .999..., so the test is inconclusive. Assuming both pinballs had an infinite number of electrons in them also does not help, as then the answer to "what is ePA/ePB" is "I will never stop counting" (implying correctly that Infinity - 1 = Infinity).

>> ^kceaton1:
This is why Mathematics are very specific, but in use--in the field--they will have LARGE caveats where the majority of the mental masturbation falls completely apart. Because, many of these discussions DO OCCUR at the EXTREMES of Math (if you know what I mean) and fundamentally the only places that use these parts are in extreme measurements; measurements where chance can become a powerful player.

I actually disagree with you here, though I think in practice we both have the same respect for Mathematics, so you can take or leave that disagreement as you please. In my mind Mathematics is "absolute" because it has been proven to be consistent, so the mental exercises are valid even in extreme cases. In those extreme cases sometimes things need to be added to what is already known to correctly describe what is going on or how something works, but the math that has come before is still sound. In fact, the soundness of Mathematics is the whole reason we can add onto it -- Because we know that it will not break. If it does, then we have done something wrong.

>> ^Zawash:

>> ^kceaton1:
So I would ask her this question concerning .9999~ not equaling one. If we take two pinballs and start to count all the electrons--but, midway through we strip ONE electron from one pin; essentially making this our .9999~ pinball.
Too late, MonkeySpank already tried that one.
The number "missing", the number between .9999~ and 1, could be stated as x, where x -> 0 (x goes towards zero).


I know, but sometimes it helps people to hear the SAME explanation in none mathematical terms. That was the only reason I made it. Essentially, the number that is the difference between .999~ and 1 equaling each other eventually becomes SO SMALL that it essentially doesn't exist anymore--for all intent and purposes.

I could have have 100 pinballs and it's unlikely that they all have the same amount of atoms, let alone electrons. BUT, the point is that to me each one of those objects are still pinballs (unless we change the definition of what a pinball is, which would require superhuman measurement...).

BTW - You might think me on the wrong side of the street, maybe. To me .999~ does indeed equal 1 in every-way; how we've defined the very principles that describe so many of its different definitions are agreed upon by the very nature of the laws and mechanics that Math is built upon. I just thought it would be fun to play around with the definitions a bit and see that we still end up at the same place. Math describes something intrinsic about the nature of the Universe and reality.

>> ^kceaton1:

So I would ask her this question concerning .9999~ not equaling one. If we take two pinballs and start to count all the electrons--but, midway through we strip ONE electron from one pin; essentially making this our .9999~ pinball.
Too late, MonkeySpank already tried that one.

The number "missing", the number between .9999~ and 1, could be stated as x, where x -> 0 (x goes towards zero).

This may scare some to hear, but realistically speaking you may actually be able to make the opposite case. The case that in fact there are really no true "full numbers" as she is stating, that in fact these numbers are merely representations of fractions and other such logical pantomime... Exactly as @Mikus_Aurelius says Math is a very large framework of logical conclusions and determinations about numbers and their nature. It's up to us no matter the argument to decide and resolve the issue--maybe it changes how we use Math, but that TRULY is doubtful.

I could destroy her whole concept by reducing the entire mathematical world to a structure scheme that can ONLY be ever displayed as a fractional environment, except for 0 or infinity, as they are special forces unto Math. Why not also bring our ever lingering doubts about structure in the small scale into the mix? You can only know one of two facts (at the electron scale for example) leaving you with a permanent variable in every problem. Then we could bring in Quantum Mechanics to make it even more fun...

So I would ask her this question concerning .9999~ not equaling one. If we take two pinballs and start to count all the electrons--but, midway through we strip ONE electron from one pin; essentially making this our .9999~ pinball. By the time we get done counting the electrons which pinball will have less and which will have more? Well the problem is that IN FACT the pinball that had one taken off could actually NOW have more than the other pinball. So do either actually equal one?

This is why Mathematics are very specific, but in use--in the field--they will have LARGE caveats where the majority of the mental masturbation falls completely apart. Because, many of these discussions DO OCCUR at the EXTREMES of Math (if you know what I mean) and fundamentally the only places that use these parts are in extreme measurements; measurements where chance can become a powerful player.

Another way to look at this is to realize that the number missing--that doesn't equalize .999999~ to 1--is SO SMALL that it LITERALLY escapes anyway we have in our own Universe to describe it as energy, dimensions, vectors, scalars, or entropy. It is so small that it is essentially "virtual" to us, literally. Hopefully, this helps others understand why .9999~=1 (other than ALL OF THE PROOFS), it just has too.

those sounds are from that pinball game that came with windows

No Pinball...
No Cause and effect pinball mechanics...
Ball seems to be sentient....


FAIL!

That was a little harsh. Though kids are generally pretty tough, a fall like that can break bones. I was hoping the band would start choreographed movement and bump the kid around like a pinball. Oh, well.

Edit due to quote fail...

hpqp said: "It's a pity the background music is so lame. If you want to feel like you're walking in the frozen scene of someone else's dream, mute the vimeo vid and play this one instead (start it before the starting the vimeo). It was the first to come to mind, and amazingly fits to a T!"

The music you linked to was cool, but I like the song in the original vid. This is probably because I am getting too old and it reminds me of playing pinball with a bunch of people back in the 90's that are now closed or burned down. (The arcades, not the people.)

>> ^Ajkiwi:

Quite good website takes you through a tour of the machine: http://www.skatepinball.co.nz/#/ExploreTheMachine


http://videosift.com/video/Introducing-Mountain-Dew-Skate-Pinball-Park for construction of it.