Because Israel has started their full scale invasion of the last standing city in Gaza where they directed innocent civilians to go, the U.S. has finally suspended bomb shipments to Israel so at least we won’t be continuing knowingly sending the weapons used in this genocide, but make no mistake they have enough American made bombs to murder every innocent Palestinian already, especially since they rounded them up into one big killing box they are now attacking.

The world should be against Israel just like it was against Nazi Germany, the acts are a near mirror. It’s hopeful that The Hague is considering an arrest warrant for Netanyahu for war crimes, but disgusting some maga representatives sent a threatening letter to The Hague threatening the “judges” and their families if they dare to indict Netanyahu on the obvious charges of targeting civilians and using civilian starvation as a tool of the military.

I suggest sending the aid procured for Israel to Gaza to rebuild…send Israel a card saying a tree has been planted in Gaza in their name.

So again, that’s a “no”. You are not man enough to admit statements that are true. No surprise.

Instead you would prefer to make up some alternative facts that make you feel good.

Violent settlers (often Americans) forcing Palestinians off their land at gun point or just outright murdering them to steal their land increased exponentially during Trump’s tenure, as did IDF attacks on innocent civilians (often in support of the settlers, not counted in official IDF killings), they also increased the slow genocide of medical embargoes, intentional starvation, cutting off water and electricity, violent random attacks on mosques, all under Trump. They don’t count those as “IDF killings” either, but they are.

The IDF has been committing a slow boil genocide for decades, under both parties, a genocide they accelerated under Trump’s regime in many ways, and again under Biden when they used their (intentional?) abject intelligence failure in Oct. as an excuse for escalating farther to such an extent its looking likely they allowed the attack for that very reason, an excuse for escalating the genocide. It’s become clear they caused many of the casualties on Oct 7 and made false rape claims that have been debunked, also to excuse their escalation.

Netanyahu is a far right wing “leader” Trump still today lovingly calls Bibi who would have been out of office without Trump’s help and quite recently Don has voiced his FULL support for any lengths Netanyahu wants to go including taking the entire Gaza Strip and expelling the residents (into the sea because no country will take them, knowing if they do Israel will use them having a country to take refuge in as a pretext to take the West Bank too)…and you want to pretend Biden who has called him a war criminal is MORE complicit than Trump who backed his every genocidal move. 😂

At least you are consistent in your fantasy world…you never leave. Too bad it cost you your balls, spine, mind, and soul. I hope you like it in there up your rectum. 😂

Don’t pretend Trump didn’t also fund and arm the IDF and support violent Israeli expansion.
So disgraced ex POTUS Don [is] also guilty of genocide.

Both are guilty of being complicit in genocide but to different extents.

Both will continue to support it, but Trump agrees with Netanyahu that Palestinians should be wiped off the face of the earth, driven into the sea and forgotten... Biden is (finally, but late) air dropping food to avoid another trap being set by the IDF to murder more starving children.

Your video, Israeli Soldiers Use Food Aid As Trap To Murder Palestinians, has made it into the Top 15 New Videos listing. Congratulations on your achievement. For your contribution you have been awarded 1 Power Point.

Israel has released highly edited drone footage that still contradicts their false narrative despite having the part where the shooting and running happens edited out. If it showed Palestinians killings themselves attacking food trucks like Israel has claimed caused ALL the deaths and injuries, does anyone really believe it wouldn’t be aired immediately?

Today they claim they only fired warning shots…but since when are “warning shots” fired into a crowd from tanks and drones?

This was a genocidal massacre by a nation that has shown itself to be worse than Nazi Germany. International condemnation is coming from everywhere but America. It’s disgusting, and may cost Biden the election.

Trump also supports Israel exclusively, and still does. He fully supports Netanyahu grabbing power and fully supports his war. Biden didn’t “do this”, Netanyahu did, but he’s continuing the policy that has been in place since the 50’s of blind support for Israel and turning a blind eye to their atrocities and illegalities while funding and arming them.

The UN, despite America’s obstruction and obfuscation, is finally waking up to the genocidal monster they helped create that is Israel, waking up likely far too late.

I actually agree with the second part, we should stop funding the Israeli/Palestinian war, and stop funding Israel. The blowback for our support costs us 10 times what we gift Israel to commit genocide.

A disproportionate number of the violent expansionist settlers, the main cause of continuing hostilities, are American immigrants, they should all lose their citizenship and be labeled as terrorists.

Disgraced Faux Judge “Spank me hard Daddy” Napolitano, Bobby? He’s the best you can do?
Wow, you’re really scraping the barrel.
A reminder….
https://www.thedailybeast.com/fox-news-judge-andrew-napolitano-faces-second-sexual-assault-lawsuit

What nonsense. Wishful thinking propaganda by America hating, democracy hating, Biden hating idiots and criminals. Good job bob.

EDIT- The outrage is out there, friendo. The UN is calling out war crimes. Many western nations are too. Many Americans are too. I have for decades.

Recently reports and evidence have proven Israel knew Hamas was planning the attack over a year before it happened, they apparently had the entire 40 page plan in hand, and was getting their own intelligence saying they were implementing the exact plan they knew about in the weeks and months leading up to the attack, the exact plan they implemented on Oct 7. Netanyahu’s administration decided to take no action at all, seemingly allowing the attack as a pretext to a war they wanted.

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/11/30/world/middleeast/israel-hamas-attack-intelligence.html

Friendly reminder, most Palestinians are pure Semites, direct descendants of ancient civilizations that spoke the Semitic language like Babylonians, Phoenicians, Cannanites, Assyrians, Akkadians, Arabs, and Hebrews… most Jewish Israelis are not even partly Semitic they are Europeans…so technically supporting Israel against Palestine is anti-Semitic, not the other way around like the official narrative claims.

There’s lots of reporting on Hamas saying they want to eradicate Israel (without the ability to even do damage 99.9% of the time, certainly not eradication), but very little reporting of the Israeli government saying the exact same thing about Palestine while actively doing so using US supplied advanced weaponry at bombing rates never before seen, and dropping them on civilian populations.

There’s little mention that Palestinians die at around 20 times the rate Israelis die despite having less than 20% the population of Israel (and extreme high death rates mean 50% of Palestinians are children).

Gaza is an open air prison where inmates serve life for the crime of being Arabs in their native land. Electricity flows a maximum of 3 hours a day in good times, food is scarce, and under 10% have access to clean water. There are no jobs, and there’s a very good chance your family will die together at home from indiscriminate bombing.

They have nothing to lose because Israel has taken everything from them over 70 years of ever expanding violent military occupation including their humanity.

The Israeli military spokesman said this campaign is intentionally not targeted, and is designed to do maximum damage to Palestine not to target Hamas. That’s another war crime.

Why in the fuck are we supporting and supplying clear undeniable, even proud war criminals!? That should make congress and Biden war criminals themselves. Send them all to The Hague to defend their actions if they think their actions are defensible.

If we use Israel’s metrics, that makes all Americans war criminals prime for righteous retaliation by the law abiding world. Not a good plan.

Edit: Side note- Israel has apparently made no move at all to negotiate hostage releases. In fact, they claim the hostages are held in the very tunnels they are bombing, so they are in fact targeting the hostages. Don’t let them get away with the lie that they are invading and raising the city to save them. They refused to consider pausing bombing for two days in exchange for their release, pretending Hamas might be miraculously completely resupplied and reinforced if they did.

“ It’s your insistence that Jewish people, and the existence of Israel, have always fundamentally been invaders that I was objecting to as it is so intensely at odds with factual history.”
No…it is at odds with your position and is not what I said.
It is factual history that fighting age European Jews came armed and forcibly displaced the natives after being offered sanctuary for their most needy. It is not factual that I claimed it was ever thus. That is clearly not what I said, I said for 10+- years they were getting along as refugees, then started coming in HUGE numbers illegally and taking over.

Those are facts.

I also mentioned a native Jewish population that were not refugees or invaders. Some of them supported the invading Zionists, some didn’t. I’ve never heard of one who opposed them.

“ You gave a brief nod on not being a scholar of Palestinian history, but then proceed to just count all Jewish refugees as good as Zionist aggressors from day 1(or close enough), and the local Arab population as nothing but pure, kind caring victims of these invaders.”

Not even close to true, I said many stood behind the Zionists when they started coming en masse, and didn’t say but seemingly few to none of the native Jews opposed them. I also was clear that at the beginning the refugees acted like refugees, not invaders….I mistakenly gave them more time being grateful than you say they were, according to you Palestinians position is they began the invasion in the 20’s….and theirs is the opinion I care about. I never claimed ALL Arabs were welcoming, but the “nation” as a whole (despite being not self ruling at the time) welcomed a huge number of refugees considering their own population. Way more than elsewhere.

Edit: Britain, who facilitated this invasion, only took in 80000 European Jews in the decade before and during the war, and they were only given transit visas to stay temporarily until they found other accommodations. All of England took in fewer Jewish refugees in all pre war history than Palestine did….England took in 80000, most on temporary visas, Palestine took in 60000 permanently in 1935 alone, and 130000 in 33-36.
Pre-immigration Palestine had about 700000 people. In 1944 European Jews ignored the 1500 visa limit per year and came by the hundred of thousands per year after already completely overwhelming the native population.
Palestine was forcibly invaded by a foreign population exponentially bigger than the native population while Britain kept them too weak to oppose it physically.
That’s an invasion…not on day 1. 🤦‍♂️

“ without being able to writeoff Israel as invaders from day 1, nuance enters the calculus and suddenly the conflict is flooded with shades of grey ”

Again, I said day 3, not day 1, and went on to say that meant 10 years later. Get off your high horse and READ buddy.

I guess I’ll stop here. If you aren’t going to read what I wrote and insist on arguing red herrings you made up yourself, you can do that alone.

Nothing you’ve said changes or excuses the fact that masses of armed violent invaders came to take the land from the natives by force and were successful. The exact date this happened is not only y highly subjective, it’s completely besides the point.
Nothing you’ve said changes or excuses the inhuman treatment they’ve subjected the innocent native civilian population to for 70 years…but you’ve tried.
Nothing you’ve said changes or excuses the intentional targeting of trapped civilians by the military….serious war crimes Israel commits daily.
Nothing you’ve said even hints that you consider Palestinians worthy of consideration themselves, possibly not even human status, definitely not peaceful existence.

Bye

“ my solution would be every able bodied Jewish man and woman join the French (or Polish, Russian, British) army and fucking fight…”

I agree that’s the noble thing to do, but I can’t condemn the ones that choose to seek safety in numbers with Jewish Palestinians as exclusively invasion minded aggressors. My 6 million tag was maybe a bit sharp, but you also know that the Nazi’s took Paris and as much as it sucked to be French or European under Nazi occupation, you also know adding Jewish to that carried a lot of extra consequence and danger to your family.

My POV is agnostic of everything save Isreali people today having a right exist as a nation. Which at this point from my POV leaves 1947 as somewhat academic.

It’s your insistence that Jewish people, and the existence of Israel, have always fundamentally been invaders that I was objecting to as it is so intensely at odds with factual history.

You gave a brief nod on not being a scholar of Palestinian history, but then proceed to just count all Jewish refugees as good as Zionist aggressors from day 1(or close enough), and the local Arab population as nothing but pure, kind caring victims of these invaders.

I will state again, that is ahistorical propaganda and NOT what actually happened. And for my POV, its enough generations back as to be Academic, but for your POV it is fundamental because without being able to writeoff Israel as invaders from day 1, nuance enters the calculus and suddenly the conflict is flooded with shades of grey because lots of parties all contribute to the bloodshed, and many with reasonable motivations from both sides yet too.

Please find me any reputable sources to refute the reality of 1920-1940s Palestine:
-Mass Jewish immigration fleeing European oppression raised tensions between Jewish and Arab Palestinians.(as one must expect)
-Arab palestinians were already chaffing and resisting British colonial rule(as one must expect)
-These tensions led conflict, initially more ‘civil’ with the Arab majority trying to refuse all business, sales and trade with all Jews.
-Escalation followed throughout that time, but in drips and drops and NOT a ‘surprise the Zionist army has arrived’! style of aggression

The violent escalation was a fight here, a beating there. Little individual fights, escalating into deaths. Retaliations slowly grew, with each side exchanging small escalations.

-the culmination of this was eventually all out civil war, and the Jewish side immediately accepting a UN mandated 2 state solution

-this culmination coinciding with the end of WW2 and revelations of the true extent of the holocaust can’t be ignored, it certainly shaped the Jewish mindset in the conflict.

-Their mindset was pretty clearly not inaccurate either, as the immediate response of all neighbouring Arab nations was a declaration of war on the new ‘state’, with bold claims of how quickly the Jews would be swept into the sea. The confidence was so high, a call was sent it for ALL Arab palestinians to abandon and flee the entire region of Palestine to better enable the complete cleansing of the land.

The above is all pretty much inarguably factual, and I’d bargain you could get an Arabic and Israeli scholar together to more or less agree on those facts which is saying alot.

——
Propaganda from both sides would like to declare that the Arabs harboured deep Nazi sympathies, and thus Israel was pure and true in all it did. Or from the other side, more or less your narrative of Zionist bad guys launching invasion from day 1(ish).

Both though are just sprinklings of half truths, with anti-British resentment naturally breeding some leanings towards the axis, and even genuine Nazi cleanse the Jews believers. And absolutely Zionists featured prominently within the Jewish population. Neither of those partial truths though make the propaganda of either side true, but instead just an incomplete and intentionally biased picture.


Again, please find me sources demonstrating I’m terribly wrong on all that, but the only ones I can find are clearly biased and the accurate accounts paint the picture above, the propaganda very, very clearly copies the real story more or less with just deletions of inconvenient bits

I count it as a hyper generous humanitarian gift given by Palestinians on day 1 that by day 3 (year 10+-) had become an invasion of hostile violent foreigners.

Because I don’t have a perfect solution for a problem no one could solve at the time does not in any way shape or form excuse the hostile invasion or fascist racist genocidal regimes since…
…but my solution would be every able bodied Jewish man and woman join the French (or Polish, Russian, British) army and fucking fight, not run off and invade elsewhere. If they had the fighters to take Israel, they had the fighters to turn the war years earlier, but went for invasion and occupation instead.

So, you DO think the people of Haiti have the right to come to your doorstep and toss you in the street. I disagree. I reiterate, not being safe at home is no excuse to go elsewhere and make it’s inhabitants unsafe, especially if those inhabitants had nothing to do with you being unsafe, more so if they actually stuck their neck out to make some of your family safe.

I’ll try to unscramble that…”what would I have the existing Jewish Palestinian population and new refugees do with themselves once in Palestine?”…the native Jews, nothing. They’re citizens. The refugees, refugee camps of a certain size and no over crowding. Once they’re full, go elsewhere. There were other places to go, although limited. The British had an obligation to support the Palestinians and prepare them to run the country, an obligation they completely shirked and instead facilitated the invasion of hostile foreigners while keeping the Palestinians defenseless.

Fuck you 6 million. They weren’t waiting for legal avenues for immigration. Those people for the most part had no option to be refugees or decide a thing, the Germans and Polish essentially woke up one day unable to travel. The people we are talking about had over a decade, and included Germans.

No, my POV relies on the theory that you having a bad time doesn’t give you a license to murder me and steal my stuff and subjugate my descendants horrifically.
Historically many groups have had tough scary times, many ending in actual genocide. Few took that as an opportunity to do the same to another group that was trying to help them out of the tough spot. Zionists did….and with Americans help. I’ll never stop pointing it out.
The Palestinians in Gaza are suffering a genocide today. Do they have a right to go invade some weaker nation for their safety? No. That’s not reasonable or acceptable.

I think your POV relies on the theory that, because Jews were being increasingly persecuted in Europe that gives them the right to take a friendly nation by force and subjugate and persecute its people forever…

Maybe let’s try a different tack to common ground.

It feels like the fundamental difference is on the reasonableness of the actions of the Jewish population in the 40s. I count it within reason enough to acknowledge the right of Israel to exist as a nation, while you count it a foreign invader from day 0(or maybe day 5 or 6).

What would you have had the Jewish European people in the 30s/40s do?

I’d like to rule out ‘wait patiently for legal avenues of immigration’ on account of at least 6million doing that, but…

It depends on the first answer, but if your answer includes the option of seeking refuge amongst the Jewish population in Palestine, then the followup:
What you have had the existing Jewish Palestinian population and new refugees do with themselves once in Palestine?

I kinda feel your POV requires the belief that, again humbly waiting for fair treatment was gonna work out well for them…

Edit: I misunderstood …. When you flee to somewhere you aren’t welcome, you invaded. That’s not characterization, it’s definition. If my home isn’t safe so I force my way into yours, I invaded your home…even if my friend down the street said it was ok.
It’s not a legitimate motive to invade a foreign country and murder, subjugate, and ghettoize its inhabitants because you aren’t safe where you live. There is no legitimate motive for those actions.

I think you take great liberty deciding the “Arab narrative”. That may be the Hamas narrative, it’s not the Palestinian’s history, and I think few claim it is. At first they were and acted like refugees, welcomed by Arab natives, some of which were Jews themselves, then shortly after began exponentially increasing immigration to overpower the natives, coming armed. They had no right to take by force food, shelter, and safety from those who had offered it to a much smaller portion of needy Jews…they in fact had an obligation to do the exact opposite and minimize their impact on their TEMPORARY HOSTS, and ensure their benefactors didn’t suffer for their generosity. This was not even a fleeting thought for the invaders.

The violent Zionists were intentionally courted and invited then supported and encouraged by those you say were “getting along”, so your point is misguided.

That native population was displaced by a concerted effort to forcibly immigrate en masse and seize control. The natives eventually balked, but too late and the overwhelming masses of armed violent Jewish invaders took over.

I’m in a camp that doesn’t give a shit about religion, they’re all idiotic nonsense, but believes in law and order, and invading people seizing control by force and dehumanizing the natives is not a thing I’m prepared to gloss over or erase with one sided details. I don’t gloss over my own country’s inhumane origins of genocidal racism against our natives, and I support any measure that returns anything they’ve been stripped of.

I’m also in a camp that doesn’t think it’s ok to murder and rape Peter to pay Paul for Patrick’s bill. The Palestinians bear zero responsibility for Jews treatment in Europe. None.

I’m also in a camp that believes “refugee” means you are a guest until you can return home, not a new citizen with more rights than natives.

The European Jews there are invaders acting terribly unreasonably, they’re very Trumpian in their actions, any slight against them is an excuse to go full bore Hitler against those kids with rocks.

I don’t “just declare invasion”. It was an invasion.
Foreign people came unwanted and illegally into the country and took over by force. That’s called an invasion in English by most definitions, and an invasion it was.
The forceful invaders are ALWAYS the bad guys, the oppressors are ALWAYS the bad guys, the expansionists are ALWAYS the bad guys. That describes all the Israeli people. They are the bad guys, whether they intended to be or not.

Hint- Not being 100% free of fear is no excuse for becoming the invading Nazis themselves. The Nazis used fear of the other as an excuse for expansionist inhumanity too….it’s not one.
Having lived through fascist oppression one would think they would be vehemently opposed to it, but they are instead relishing it.
Look at Netanyahu’s face when he talks about crushing and eradicating Palestinians, he’s really enjoying it.

If your group is suddenly being lambasted from all sides, you might consider why, not just whine that it’s unfair and scary. There’s good reason for rising anti Zionist sentiment today…and many on both sides aren’t bright enough to distinguish that from anti Jewish sentiment.

In some places, the six pointed star is the most prevalent symbol of murderous fascist hatred. Guaranteed it’s freshly painted on hundreds of flattened buildings today, many with dead children still inside. That’s a bit worse than a kid’s provocative tag under an overpass. Other recent instances include mosques burnt down and tagged with star of Davids. Don’t get it twisted, don’t excuse violence over fear.
https://www.haaretz.com/middle-east-news/palestinians/2020-07-27/ty-article/.premium/west-bank-mosque-set-on-fire-vandalized-with-hebrew-graffiti/0000
017f-f494-d47e-a37f-fdbcd6f20000

Yes. What’s your point? You seem to agree with me, except you go back to the 20’s instead of early 30’s. I’m not a Palestine scholar, sorry if I get details or dates slightly wrong, sources vary on many points. It doesn’t change my point, that under British rule European Jews were allowed to immigrate in huge numbers despite opposition from the native population that was being overwhelmed by increasing unwanted forced immigration. At first it was accepted even encouraged by the empathetic natives, but quickly became an overwhelming unwanted invasion of people intent on taking over, not some moderate number of refugees looking for temporary refuge.

Who the fuck cares what the reason they wanted to invade was? Palestinians weren’t responsible for their plight, but still stood ready to help until invaded and subjugated harshly by the invaders.
Should Venezuelans be allowed to take over Pennsylvania because they want out of Venezuela for good reason? Or Chinese? Or any African? Or Central American? Certainly Haitians have it bad enough to make it ok to take a state for themselves! Yes, Europe was dangerous…for anyone. That’s not an excuse to invade, murder another person and steal their land and subjugate their descendants for decades, but that’s what they did…and what you’re attempting to excuse.

Well, that explains it then. You think because the Jews had it worse once, it excuses being the Nazis today. I do not, I believe it gives them more reason to never be anything like the Nazis, not emulate them. The Palestinian plight is worse than many Jews in Europe besides Poland or Germany. They’re already in the ghetto, not free to travel and maybe get out. They’re already oppressed, subjugated, starved, dehydrated, often without power or communications, and 100% under the thumb and control of their oppressors. Sounds pretty shitty to me. Your family murdered at a whim with no repercussions sounds pretty bad. Your ancestral home taken by force and family shot for existing sounds fairly bad. I’m not sure how you think it’s OK because someone else maybe had it worse once.

When they “arrived in Palestine”, it was as an illegal unwanted invasion intent on taking over and expelling or eradicating the native population. They deserved violence 100%. The population was doing more than their share accepting refugees, then for their humanity was invaded and dehumanized in their own country. No excuse can make that acceptable unless it had happened in Germany post war.

Yes, Jews were the bad guys, invading a land they had and have no right to. You got it! They didn’t even have a right to refugee status there, it was a gift, they absolutely had no right to take control and possession by force, nor to become the inhuman monsters they were fleeing in Northern Europe.

Absolutely not. What even was his plan, I ask you. It wasn’t securing the borders.

I support the plan to FUND border parol and immigration courts to not only secure the border but repair the immigration process that does not function today. With a functioning immigration process, most would use it, making stopping illegal entry much easier.

I support refugee camps in the East Texas desert, not open release before processing.

I absolutely do not support actual open borders, nor allowing other countries to just send plane and train and boatloads of unvetted people in in numbers that would make natives the minority in quick fashion, nor do I support returning Texas (including Oklahoma, Kansas, Colorado, Wyoming, and New Mexico) to the Mexicans even though they are fleeing near the same level of fear, oppression and death from narco gangs and have some hereditary claims (which European Jews did not, they were mostly not Semitic genetically). I disagree the circumstances were much more desperate in the 30’s outside of Germany, and I disagree that the choices are Trumpism or no-border free-for-alls.