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Last Week Tonight with John Oliver: Prison (HBO)

Jerykk says...

1) The problem is that the U.S. is so large that even a single state is often larger than entire European countries. As such, there's a large amount of income and crime disparity between states. Michigan, for example, has a high crime rate because it contains Detroit, which would qualify as a third-world country by most standards. Other states have significantly lower crime rates. Just as in Russia, some regions are far more prosperous (and safe) than others.

For example, Minnesota has a comparable population to Norway. As of 2012, it had a murder rate of 1.8, which is admittedly higher than that of Norway. However, Louisiana had a murder rate of 10.8 and actually has a smaller population than either of the aforementioned regions. The murder rates per state ranged from 1.1 to 10.8. That's a huge range in this context. Both states are part of the U.S. If the U.S. only consisted of one state, the murder rates would be radically different based on which state it was. That's the inherent problem with comparing small countries to the U.S. The sample size of the European countries is so small that you can't derive any meaningful data for comparison.

2/3) A large amount of violence is the result of drugs. Either people committing crimes to obtain drugs, people committing crimes because they are on drugs or cartels committing crimes to distribute drugs and maintain their stranglehold on the market. Would legalizing narcotics alleviate these issues? Maybe. They might also cause a rise in other issues, like traffic accidents. Alcohol already causes an absurd amount of lethal and non-lethal accidents on the road and no doubt legally-obtainable PCP, cocaine, heroin, meth, LSD, etc, would only exacerbate that.

RedSky said:

1) Northern Europe is the closest comparison income wise to the US besides Japan which is culturally very different. I don't think it's unreasonable to aggregate these countries in comparing. There isn't going to be a perfect example, but Russia is very far from it.

Your argument about the death penalty is a null point because what you're proposing is impractical and thus not worth debating.

2) & 3) Greenland has a GDP per capita of 22K and is a highly idiosyncratic example given its population density. I think that's pretty much self evident. If Greenland is your best example I think I've proven my point.

I have no doubt that greater surveillance and enforcement will reduce crime rates. I'm not disputing that. Technology will naturally improve this through the likes of ever improving facial recognition. But I don't think a UK style CCTV policing system would be affordable given that the US is less densely populated in cities. As for enforcement, I don't think there's been a lack of money thrown in that direction. The issue, as this video points out, is more that if it was targeted at violent rather than drug offenders the overall benefit to society would be greater. There I would not disagree.

4)

Germany and the Netherlands are other examples where it has worked:

http://www.takepart.com/article/2013/11/14/some-european-prisons-are-shrinking-and-closing-what-can-america-learn

What you're proposing (visa vi death penalty) is something no democratic country has accepted (or will, I think). What I propose is at least accepted by to a large extent by many European developed countries. The US may shift eventually if it is recognised the current policies have been consistently failing.

5)

Yes there are many reasons why Venezuela is not a fair example. I think you make my point. Surveillance and enforcement are both necessary to reduce crime. Of course if you pick countries distinctly lacking in them then it supports your case.

But I'm arguing about which would be better given the baseline of current US policy. I think you would agree that both surveillance and enforcement are of a much higher standard in the US, with largely meritocratic and corruption free police forces. If that's the case then other developed countries, with roughly similar incomes and therefore tax revenues to afford comparable police force standards are a good reference. Venezuela is not.

Last Week Tonight: Hobby Lobby

00Scud00 says...

I seem to recall awhile back that Muslim cab drivers were told they couldn't refuse a fare at the airport here in Minnesota just because someone had alcohol in their luggage. I'm not sure how that is much different than what Hobby Lobby is trying to do. I can't wait until some company comes along and claims that all medical procedures are against their religious beliefs and therefore are not required to offer any medical insurance at all.

Record Rainfall Allows Kayaker To Hit The Falls

siftbot says...

Tags for this video have been changed from 'Minnehaha Falls, river, kayak, Minnesota' to 'Minnehaha Falls, river, kayak, Minnesota, eminem, beautiful' - edited by lucky760

deathcow (Member Profile)

Ice vs Bridge in Canada

Oakland CA Is So Scary Even Cops Want Nothing To Do With It

BigAlski says...

Shite like this is the reason I moved out of California, living in good old Saint Paul, Minnesota now. Oxnard California is like a mini-Oakland. Here I have a 3000sf home built in 1901, 1 mile from downtown and no worries. My daughter is 10mos, one due in July, and we so enjoy walks in the neighborhood in the summer. My stepson walks to baseball 1 mile away, we meet him there pushing baby and walking dog, walk home as an American Family. It makes it all worth while. My wife is a CPA but I am a blue collar truck driver.

I think there are ALL KINDS of problems that lead to places like this in Cali... Fresno is almost as bad. Parts of the low desert are very bad, etc. If you want to write 2 page posts defending your view of WHY, maybe that's one of the reasons why as well, and you should define it, man up, and put it in there at number 12 or whatever. Sure "democratic stronghold" is part of the problem. American counter-culture has also been rewarding consumerism above all else for decades. Asians, Latinos, and Blacks cash in today and sell out tomorrow. The west coast is also way too expensive, real estate is too high, and money is the only incentive.

Obviously there is a problem. The left wants to look at answers that sound might or will help but accountability cant be ignored. The right wants to go to war and justify a police state when we are all Americans defining our on future together.

As a side note I might have had 10-15 encounters with these types over the years in and around Oxnard and if their skin was white and I was armed, maybe they would have died...or me. Who knows, there are always more than one way to deal with a problem. In the end the minorities pay the price and it isn't fair. They get worse jobs, their property isnt worth ShXXt, their children receive a poor education. Cookie-cutter whites, in the end, benefit on the left. The drive their Volvo SUVs on highways to schools or doctors or what have you paid for by the masses.

SODA / POP / COKE (Dialect Map of the USA)

Atheist in the Bible Belt outs herself because she is MORAL

strangest weather you will see today

strangest weather you will see today

Barseps (Member Profile)

LAKE ICE II - the aftermath

Runaway Snowmobile after a trick jump gone wrong

Sagemind says...

@kymbos @Fletch @pavel_one

Jackson Strong is an extreme Motocross rider, and a dam good one but he is not a rider of sleds.
Within a week after winning gold in LA, he decided he would try his luck at XGames Aspen. He went out and bought himself a snowmobile just for the event, flew to Minnesota and trained for four hours before arriving to compete. His plan was to pull the same trick he did on his motocross, (called the Jack), only this time on the sled to see if he could pull another gold metal win without even putting in the time to properly train.

Watch this report which happened live at the event: http://videosift.com/video/Jackson-Strong-Crashes-on-his-first-run

"Jackson Strong is great at doing tricks in motocross, but his snowmobile skills need work. Strong only had four hours of experience on a sled, but decided to enter the best trick competition at the Winter X Games anyways. What happened next really needs to be seen to be believed.
I really think that Strong should have thought more about doing this. He is lucky someone did not get seriously hurt because of this stunt. Luckily everyone was paying attention and they were able to bail out of the way before the sled could have done a lot of damage."

Read more at http://www.rantsports.com/clubhouse/2013/01/27/jackson-strong-loses-control-of-snowmobile-at-winter-x-games-flies-into-crowd/?mj3tq62shIAM42mJ.99

Fletch said:

There is no way he qualified for an X-Games event with only four hours on a snowmobile. Possible he only had four hours on this particular snowmobile, but I think the report you saw had bad info or just wasn't very clearly stating what info they did have.

This Dude Can Tell A Story - Vietnam War

20 States File Petitions To Secede From USA

chingalera says...

So many ways to mince up the map in the US to accommodate everyone. Hell, the west coast is already hemp-friendly and lush, freaks can live in Washorefornia.

Assholes, criminals, politicians-types can have Illinois,Wisconsin, Ohio, Iowa, Missouri, Michigan, Minnesota, and they can all live without guns, drugs, or a fucking clue.

Lesseeee, what new regime runs the east coast from Rhode Island to D.C. because no one south of the Carolinas wants anything to do with them northerners...

Folks from the E.U. can handle the idea..You can fit 5-11 tidy little nations within North America. Dial-in your way of life, restrict travel for assholes and douches between countries only(establish universal test for asshole/douche/shitbag, etc).



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