Actually, the proof that something did not end up in the hands of the Chinese, the Russians, or myself for that matter, is quite difficult, given that evidence of absence is impossible to obtain. However, the absence of evidence to the claim that they have gained access to information through Snowden himself is reason enough for me.

You want proof that nothing was transfered to them? Might as well try to prove the non-existance of the famous tea pot in orbit.

So the basic argument boils down to motivation as well as credibility of claims.

His motivation to keep access to his material restricted to the selected group of journalists is apparent from his own interviews. They are supposed to be the check on the government, they lack the information to fullfil the role, they need access to correct (what he perceived to be) a wrong, namely a grave breach of your consitution on a previously unheard of scale.
Providing access to Russia or China would instantly negate all hope of ever not drawing the short straw in this mess, as the US is the only country on the planet who can provide him with amnesty and therefore safety.

So why would he do it? For a shot at asylum? You know as well as I do that (permanent) asylum in China/Russia is worthless if the US is after you. Europe could guarantee one's safety, but given the lack of sovereignty vis-a-vis the US, it would not be an option.

That leaves credibility of claims. And that's where my first reason comes into play, the one you put down as "naive". His opponents, those in positions of power, be it inside government or the press, have a track record of being... let's not mince words here, lying sacks of shit. James Clapper's act of perjury on front of Congress is just the most prominent manifestation of it. The entire bunch lied their asses off during the preparation of the invasion of Iraq, they lied their asses off during the revelations triggered by Chelsea Manning and they lied their asses off about the total und unrelenting surveillance of American citizens in violation of their constitutional rights.

If you think supervision of the NSA by the Select Committee on Intelligence is actually working, I suggest you take a look at statements by Senator Wyden. The NSA even plays them for fools. Hell, Bruce Schneier was recently approached by members of Congress to explain to them what the NSA was doing, because the NSA refused to. Great oversight, works like a charm. By the way, it's the same fucking deal with GCHQ and the BND.

So yes, the fella who "stole" data is actually a trustworthy figure, because a) his claims were true and b) his actions pulled off the veil that covered the fact that 320 million Americans had their private data stolen and were sold out by agencies of their own government in conjunction with private intelligence contractors.

What else...

Ah, yeah. "Sloppy" and "stupid". Again, if he was sloppy and stupid, what does that say about the internal control structure of the intelligence industry? They didn't notice shit, they still claim to be unaware of what precisely he took with him. Great security, fellas.

"He could have allowed the press to do it's job without disclosing a much of what has been released."

He disclosed nothing. He is not an experienced journalist and therefore, by his own admission, not qualified to make the call what to publish and how. That's why he handed it over to Barton Gellman at the WaPo, Glenn Greenwald at the Guardian and Laura Poitras, who worked closely with Der Spiegel.

If Spiegel, WaPo and Guardian are not reputable institutions of journalism, none are. So he did precisely what you claim he should have done: he allowed the press to do its bloody job and released fuck all himself.

As for the cheap shot at not being an American: seventy years ago, your folks liberated us from the plague of fascism, brought us freedom. Am I supposed to just sit here and watch my brothers and sisters in the US become the subjects of total surveillance, the kind my country suffered from during two dictatorships in the last century?

Ironically, that would be un-American, at least the way I understand it.

And there's nothing gleeful about my concerns. I am deeply furious about this shit and even more so about the apathy of people all around the world. You think I want Americans to suffer from the same shit we went through as a petty form of payback?

Fuck that. It's the intelligence industry that I'm gunning for. Your nationality doesn't mean squat, some intelligence agency has its crosshairs on you wherever you live. It just happens to be an American citizen who had the balls to provide us with the info to finally try and protect citizens in all countries from the overreaching abuse by the intelligence industry.

In fact, I'd rather worry about our own massive problems within Europe (rise of fascism in Greece, 60% youth unemployment, unelected governments, etc). So can we please just dismantle all these spy agencies and get on with our lives?

Sorry if this is incoherent, but it's late and I'm even more pissed off than usual.

And here I thought the claims around his four laptops were put to rest in July of last year or, at the very latest, after his meeting with Ray MacGovern, Jesselyn Radack and Thomas Drake in October.

There was nothing of substance on those laptops and to suggest otherwise with any credibility demands extraordinary proof.

Why?

Because of two primary reasons, as far as I am concerned:

- Any of Snowden's claims has yet to proven false. The entire apparatus is trying and they failed miserably so far. Probably because Snowden actually knows what he's talking about, unlike such cranks as Rep. Peter King.

- Snowden spent years working within the intelligence industry (CIA, NSA, private contractors) and he has proven to be careful and meticulous. Unlike the public (or the British MoD), he'd know better than to transport any sensitive information on a device like a laptop or a smartphone. Or an external harddrive. Or a disk. He'd use flash memory, possibly a thumb drive, probably an SD card -- the less embedded controllers a device has, the better. Heavily encrypted, of course, and if anyone doesn't believe that crypto works... tough luck, I'm done trying to convince people otherwise.

So, the only people who received data from him are Glenn Greenwald and Laura Poitras. American journalists reporting on American issues, just like he said.

As for the the revelation of "tons of national secrets and techniques": he has revealed nothing. Let me say that again: Snowden has revealed nothing.

He has empowered members of the press, the fourth estate, to do their bloody jobs and fullfil their role as watchdog over the government, something they failed at miserably in this particular regard. All revelations happen at the discretion of those journalists who are now the sole proprietors of the Snowden-documents.

If, however, you don't subscribe to the notion of a free press as a line of defence against government abuse, then I can't change your mind.

By the way, "putting American lives at risk" should have received a trademark by now, the way it has been waved around to kill uncomfortable conversations. I vividly remember how desperate they were to find proof that the Afghan/Iraqi War Logs and the Gitmo Files were endangering lives. As far as I know, they never found any. And as far as I know, all releases based on Snowden-documents were carefully chosen and redacted where neccessary to protect the identity of human assets. All claims to the contrary need to provide evidence.

But I'm glad to see that the "American industry" has found its way into the argument. At least we don't have to pretend that this is solely about terrorism anymore. Industrial espionage, diplomatic advantages and... keeping your own population in check.

Yay! It's just like the old days.

Oh wait, I forgot. My country has been under full scale surveillance by the US, the British and the French since the late '40s, so it's actually business as usual.

@Yogi

Releasing everything in one big pile didn't get us anywhere in case of the Afghan War Logs, the Iraqi War Logs or the Gitmo Files. Piece by piece keeps it front and center, at least over here in Europe. Not to mention the fact that it also nullifies all criticisms of careless dumping of sensitive info, which reduces his risk of lead poisoning.

@shinyblurry

He wouldn't be stuck in Russia if a) the US hadn't canceled his passport and b) the entirety of Europe wasn't such whipped dogs. If, for instance, Germany had offered him asylum, he'd probably be in Berlin right now, just like Laura Poitras, Sarah Harrison and Jacob Appelbaum.

And no, I don't think the Russians, the Chinese, or anyone for that matter, have gained access to his hardware before he handed everything over to Greenwald amongst others. Snowden knows what he's doing.

If, however, you don't think that crypto works, then I can't convince you otherwise.

@zor

The copyright owner, a German public broadcaster, made sure it's geofucked on YouTube. By the time I submitted this, DailyMotion was the only source available without a German proxy. That said, Adblock Edge + Ghostery + NoScript and you don't have to endure any ads on DailyMotion.

He was referring to the hundreds of millions of connections that the NSA was reported to be spying on every month. It was the first of a series of articles based on documents provided by Laura Poitras.

And as for the problem of Merkel vs the other 80.5 million of us: it was after the aforementioned ~500 billion connections a month and after we were told that "our" IXP (DE-CIX) was bugged by GCHQ, NSA and our very own BND. Merkel didn't mind, the responsible Minister didn't mind -- why would they, it wasn't news to them. But when it was made public that Merkel's private phone was being tapped as well, they had to show some indignation, because the election was closing in and they wouldn't want to look like the total lackeys they are.

That's the difference in reaction he was referring to. Our government doesn't mind us being the target of dragnet surveillance. In fact, they'd like to join the club and get access to all that information themselves. That's what the no-spy-agreement is all about.

laura gottesdiener-housing market recovering? not exactly has been added as a related post - related requested by oritteropo on that post.

Two words: David Miranda.
Not American enough? Two more: Laura Poitras.

Not to mention, their supposedly smart/effective/necessary dragnet did not prevent them having innocent civilians that they kidnapped straight from allied nations from being tortured, raped, or killed. These people had nothing to do with terrorism, but they were profiled and pronounced "guilty by statistics".

Fantastic! It has sifted! Thank you Laura.

Oooooo Thank you so much Laura! Took almost 2 days to get two votes on this one

Thanks Laura

Catch this ~~~~~~~~~~~ !!! thanks Laura

Oh man... LMFAHS... Tears of laughter... Laura Cohan (Maggie from Walking Dead) did something freaking hilarious.

Aisha Tyler is the new host. I expected worse than Drew Carey, which I thought was impossible, and I was right; she's doing alright so far. But of course she's no Clive Anderson. But then, no one is.

You are a kind person, and i appreciate tha !!!

Laura E Wilson ..THANK YOU !!!!

Hi Laura!! Thank you for the quality!!! Are you flirting with me too??

Tags for this video have been changed from 'You, have, an, IV, attached, to, your, arm, on, the, Kool, aid' to 'bill oreilly, fox news, kool aid, laura ingraham, michelle obama' - edited by xxovercastxx

By the way, it seems the folks over at either the Guardian or the WaPo have now started sharing some material with other newspapers. Previously undisclosed information was published by Der Spiegel, giving credit to Laura Poitras, amongst others.