>> ^chilaxe:
I think there's an endlessly rich intellectual world lying beneath the surface of politics, but all we ever see of it is the borderline anti-intellectualism of folks like Arianna Huffington arguing that it's actually good for liberals that Van Jones got pushed out of the White House, because he's too awesome to be constrained by such a job.


I really wish someone in a more mainstream media outlet would tap into the intellectual side of governance and political theory. It can be found all over the web (and I like to think in this particular corner of the web), but it's utterly lacking on TV. I suppose Bill Moyer's Journal occasionally dips into that realm, but I'm not sure if there's anyone but me watching that show.

I'm no fan of Huffington either. Huffpo is a decent news site, but Arianna herself seems devoted to making liberals look hysterical.

Oh, and as to your comment about progressives needing to embrace incrementalism, I agree to a certain point. I think it's important that we have people trying to shift the Overton window to the left, but I'd rather they sound more like Anthony Weiner and Alan Grayson than Michael Moore (though Moore is a good guy to have on our side too).

What I don't think we need is this whole segment of the progressive movement that's decided that the only way to move the Overton window to the left is to constantly badmouth Democrats, largely using the exact same attacks the right uses. I don't get that, but I see it happening all over the blogosphere. Lotsa people who claim to be on the left who can't do anything but talk about Obama being a secret Muslim Republican, and Rahm Emmanuel selling us out, etc.

I don't get it, do they think that driving Obama's unfavorables up is going to move the cause forward?

>> ^Winstonfield_Pennypacker:


My beef with Olbermann is not his ranting. My beef is the unequal, biased, closed-minded application of it. If he was 50% harping on liberals and 50% harping on conservatives then I'd be cool with it.


obviously you haven't watched much of olbermann's rants (understandable considering you seem to disagree with his political stripes). yes he's left of center (in american terms) but he certainly rips on democrats.

also, the republicans and democrats aren't 2 parties that are "equal but different" and i don't think they warrant being handled in the same way. the goals of the republican party is power and control (not small government and fiscal conservatism as they would like you to believe) and the goals of the democrats is to roll over and do nothing. the differences are exaggerated when you look at their mouth pieces. one group generally seeks the truth and the betterment of their fellow citizen through empathy (although this can commonly backfire) and the other consistently lies and manipulates information purely to politicize and polarize issues for personal and political power and gain. so of course no political commentator is going to have an even 50/50 critique of both parties as they both warrant being handled differently.

>> ^chilaxe:
Olbermann has been a stain on the reputation of liberals for a long time.

If by "a long time" you mean "Since Obama got sworn in", I'd agree that he's done more harm than good, mostly because he's continued dedicating the bulk of his show to discussing whatever the Republicans are saying or doing, elevating their importance.

There have been a few exceptions, though.

He did a lot of really good advocacy on the topic of health care. He's also advocated against escalation in Afghanistan, for not letting the Bush admin off the hook for torture, and for being too soft on Wall Street.

Mostly though, I think you're utterly wrong about putting a "stain" on the reputation of liberals. He's the first person on TV I've seen make any positive case for liberalism at all. There are a couple more now, but only a couple, and they basically share a studio with him.

He ain't perfect by any stretch, and I wish he'd spend more time talking up progressivism than trying to shit on conservatives and conservatism, but he's a net plus for the movement, if only because we finally have someone who is publicly, and unashamedly liberal, making arguments from the left on TV.

>> ^dannym3141:

You're an idiot.


QFT.

>> ^dannym3141:
>> ^mizila:
Talk about maturity!
>> ^dannym3141:
You're an idiot.

Fight fire with fire i'm afraid. Next time someone makes a sweeping generalisation about a group of people from all walks of life, i'll give them a evidence based bullet point debunk of why they're wrong. That'll make a difference, right?


it's "i'll give them 'AN' evidence based bullet..."

TDS vid 1-21-10 (already sifted http://www.videosift.com/video/TDS-Special-Comment-Keith-Olbermann-s-Name-Calling) repeated from 0:49-7:45, so if you've seen, you will want to skip to about 7:10 and watch the last minute.

>> ^dannym3141:
>> ^mizila:
Talk about maturity!
>> ^dannym3141:
You're an idiot.

Fight fire with fire i'm afraid. Next time someone makes a sweeping generalisation about a group of people from all walks of life, i'll give them a evidence based bullet point debunk of why they're wrong. That'll make a difference, right?


You're right about people who make broad generalizations. They're all the same.

Knows one? Hell, he's the pivot man!

>> ^KnivesOut:
>> ^Rotty:
Yep...nothing about the fact that he was a total fucking LIAR. Just the usual circle-jerk.

And rotty knows a circle jerk when he sees one.

>> ^mizila:
Talk about maturity!
>> ^dannym3141:
You're an idiot.


Fight fire with fire i'm afraid. Next time someone makes a sweeping generalisation about a group of people from all walks of life, i'll give them an evidence based bullet point debunk of why they're wrong. That'll make a difference, right?

Talk about maturity!

>> ^dannym3141:
You're an idiot.

>> ^MaxWilder:
And that is why I tend to vote with the Dems. Everybody makes mistakes. Some big, some small. But grown-ups acknowledge their mistakes and try to improve themselves. I just don't see that kind of maturity in Republicans. Evar.


You're an idiot.

>> ^Rotty:
Yep...nothing about the fact that he was a total fucking LIAR. Just the usual circle-jerk.


And rotty knows a circle jerk when he sees one.

>> ^Winstonfield_Pennypacker:
If he was 50% harping on liberals and 50% harping on conservatives then I'd be cool with it.


This is the biggest fallacy floating around today. Can neither party be more wrong than the other? Be scientific about your views, and forget about who stakes claim to what.

This video has seconded as a duplicate; transferring votes to the original video and killing this dupe - dupeof seconded with isdupe by MikesHL13.

*isdupe=http://www.videosift.com/video/TDS-Special-Comment-Keith-Olbermann-s-Name-Calling