Gordon Ramsay? really?

I have family members that are Chinese. I like and respect them a lot and don't in general have any issues with Chinese or the culture. I've lived in Vancouver BC (otherwise known as Hong-couver). It is a major immigration destination for the Chinese in Canada. In Vancouver, white people seem to be a minority.

Things I know for fact:
1). Older(often first-gen) Chinese people are racist and don't like white people - We've often been kicked out of stores for being white (not just once, but so many times I lost count.) I know of MANY younger Chinese who have dated or married Caucasian and been disowned from their families.
2). Chinese people are some of the rudest people I know. But only if they don't know you. They are very hospitable to you if they know you. Go to a mall full of Chinese people you don't know and you will see what it's like to be black in the southern US.
3). Yes, the Western Chinese culture DOES gloats over it's wealth.
3a). I know families where the grandparents go without food so the teenage grandkids can have their BMWs and Jags so that everyone thinks they are rich even if they aren't. It's all about impressions. They go out of their way to flaunt wealth.
3b). the most prestigious area in the Vancouver area is Richmond because it translates to RichMan in Chinese. The town itself is below sea-level and exists only because of the dikes holding back the Pacific Ocean. It now has some of the most over-priced land in Canada.
4). Go to a Chinese home for dinner, as a guest, and you will be served chicken, beef, pork and fish often at the same meal. Serving meat to guests shows their wealth. in China they often can't afford meat. Serving as much meat as possible in one meal shows they they are wealthy. It also honors the guest by showing offering a wealth of variety. They generally don't eat a lot of meat as a normal diet but mainly when guests are present.

I have many stories on Chinese culture experiences. The culture is VERY different from ours. I don't want to sound racist towards Chinese or Asian cultures because I'm not. Most of negative things that can be pointed out originates from the older family members and is filtered down. Most 2nd & 3rd generation Chinese are very Westernized and mix easily with our culture. Age has nothing to do with it, as young immigrants bring with them unwarranted arrogance and racism. It's not the people I blame but the culture they bring with them that is both fascinating and frustrating at the same time.

*Yes, I know you can't paint everyone with the same brush. there are some very forward thinking people immigrating to Canada and are here to experience the Western way of life but there are many traditional, often wealthy families that come here to raise themselves up and don't want anything to do with western culture or the people that live here.

I also believe it is mostly these first-generation immigrants, young and old, that give Chinese and Asian people a bad name. They are not aware of western customs and the friendliness/respect that is offered amongst Canadians. They bring with them age old customs that are distasteful and outdated without even knowing they are doing it. I must also mention that at the rate of current immigration, into the Vancouver area, they no longer need to mix with cultures other than their own and few ever need to learn English. In fact, it has gone so far as to encourage them to hold on to the customs and reject western culture all together, which seems to defeat the reason they immigrated here in the first place. This is unfortunate because we all have things to learn from other cultures. I wish more of them would share more of their culture with us and we could let the better practices of both cultures sift to the top.

Things like Shark-Fin Soup and Bear-Poaching could be eliminated in Chinese culture while I'm sure they have many fixes for our errors.

>> ^dannym3141:


Ok, speaking as someone who has very recently been to china for an extendad stay, and i've met and had extensive experience with young and middle aged chinese;
How did you get the impression they were horrible people? Every single person i met in china was generous and selfless and went a long way out of their way to make sure i had a good time and to make sure i was completely taken care of. Their culture almost DEMANDS them to be respectful and polite to strangers. Self centred is a word which i could not apply to a single one of the several hundred chinese people that i've met.
Show off their wealth? Do you realise that the chinese people are extremely poor? The government may be fucking rich but the people certainly aren't. They work their fucking arse off in a shit job they get given and they get paid pennies, PENNIES, and they work fucking hard at it and fucking long hours because guess what they'd get if they didn't? Fuck all. I have never met a more humble and polite people, the chinese people seem to me like the british were 60 years ago (of which i am proud and sad we're not like that anymore).

A legitimate commentary with unpleasant conclusions.

Does this make Drachen a 'racist' or 'bigot'?

NOPE.


>> ^Drachen_Jager:

I'm sorry, but Chinese (the modern culture, not the race) are horrible people. Flame me all you want. I know first generation Chinese who came over 30-40 years ago who are kind, decent, hardworking people, but the more recent immigrants, who were really brainwashed under communism are mostly self-centred assholes, who would honestly keep eating shark-fin soup if it meant some random person in the third world would be executed for every bowl, because it's a good way to show everyone how rich they are. The Chinese people I know who have been here for over 30 years hate the new generation of Chinese more than anyone else. They represent a perversion of the culture by Mao, who admitted hating Chinese culture and did his best to destroy it.
Obviously this does not apply to all individuals, but the culture as a whole is sick.

>> ^hpqp:

Shark fins, rhinoceros horns, tiger testes, etc... what makes people eat these, at the cost of torturing millions of animals and endangering their species? Superstitious beliefs. Moreover, almost always about virility (what is it with men and sexual insecurity?). China may not have its Yahweh or Allah, but it does have its fair share of ridiculous superstitions carried over the centuries as "tradition".


All praise the stiff dicks!

>> ^spoco2:

@Smugglarn So fucking what?
Really, you're going to base what you eat on how far up the food chain they are? You feel better about eating something because it's pretty stupid in the wild and therefore should be eaten? But not those high up the chain, because, well, they're good at what they do?


Not even taking anything else into consideration, generally speaking the higher up the food chain an animal is the less sustainable it is to eat them.

You sir, are a racist bigot.

I'm a Chinese immigrant who came to Australia less than 15 years ago, so I guess I fit into your category of Chinese who's culturally sick. Tell you what, none of my friends (of many races) think I'm a communist, self centered or an arsehole, rather I'm very well regarded. I still have relatives in China and most of them are hard working honest people. How dare you judge an entire country of people based on your limited knowledge.

You are what we called a frog at the bottom of a well. Your world is as small as the opening of the well. Go and live in China for a few years if you really want to know them better, rather than hiding behind your monitor spread hate on an internet forum.

You are not worthy of my further responses from now on. Good day to you.


>> ^Drachen_Jager:

I'm sorry, but Chinese (the modern culture, not the race) are horrible people. Flame me all you want. I know first generation Chinese who came over 30-40 years ago who are kind, decent, hardworking people, but the more recent immigrants, who were really brainwashed under communism are mostly self-centred assholes, who would honestly keep eating shark-fin soup if it meant some random person in the third world would be executed for every bowl, because it's a good way to show everyone how rich they are. The Chinese people I know who have been here for over 30 years hate the new generation of Chinese more than anyone else. They represent a perversion of the culture by Mao, who admitted hating Chinese culture and did his best to destroy it.
Obviously this does not apply to all individuals, but the culture as a whole is sick.

Sharks are apex predators. Last time I checked, geese were not.>> ^legacy0100:

Mind you that I have never tried shark fin soup, but I must point out that Ramsey again puts himself in the shoes of an extremist. I've seen the documentaries of Ramsay and he is not this intense egomaniac he presents himself in front of Cameras. So I'm not sure how much he believes in the things he's preaches in this video.
But my main concern of this video is this ridiculous Hypocracy that's going on in this video. He has yet again taken this role as a very ethnocentric typical westerner judging and criticizing cultures that are different from his own for the sake of entertaining television. In the video he is arguing that harvesting fins from sharks are bad because:
1. Sharks are endangered species
2. The rest of the shark meat is being wasted.
3. The fins doesn't taste that good.
4. Sharks are killed inhumanely.

Then I've compared it with a delicacy from western tradition: Foie gra. http://www.aprl.org/sdcitybeat.php
1. Foie Gras Geese are Specially bred species that will not survive out in the wild. They are specialized to live ina mechanized farm to yield maximum production.
2. Goose meat is generally gamier and intensely flavored, and considered a 'delicacy'. Translation= People would rather eat chicken.
3. A lot of Easteners do not like the taste of Foie Gras, as they consider it to be too rich and fatty.
4. Geese are force-fed against their will, and killed as any farm animal would.
The only difference between these two delicacies is that western chefs are 'taught' to be comfortable with process of making Foie Gras. They are 'taught' to think it's okay to force-feed the Goose, that they're physiologically different from us, and that shoving metal tubes down their throat doesn't hurt them as much as we imagine it to be, so it's okay to do it.
So as long as we are used to the idea, it's perfectly normal. After all, western chefs make good money off of serving Foie Gras. But Shark fins? No western customer has ever came in demanding those. So it's pretty useless in his/her eyes.
The only argument the western Foie Gras' got going for is that the Goose species isn't endangered, since it's bred in a mass farm, in a cramped space, being force-fed periodically.
Yea, I find this video very hypocritical. Oh and then there's the problem of Eurpoean fisheries over farming the fish and devastating local ecology. Oh and then there's western demand for large fish, which has created this monster of a shrimp farming economy in Southeast Asia that's basically creating the most disgusting thing you can put in your mouth, yet westerners still buy them up.
Yea. So... Why is Ramsay, someone who's openly endorsing these products by constantly releasing recipes using Foie Gras and other unethical shit, hosting this video?

Your video, Gordon Ramsay Eats Shark Fin Soup for the First Time, has made it into the Top 15 New Videos listing. Congratulations on your achievement. For your contribution you have been awarded 1 Power Point.

>> ^legacy0100:

Please carefully read over my comments again and also read over your response as well.
>> ^ChaosEngine:
>> ^legacy0100
So your argument is that it's ok for one ethnic group to wastefully kill an endangered species for an over-priced, tasteless status symbol because another ethnic group force feeds birds to make an over-priced status symbol?
Ah, the old "two wrongs make a right" argument! Ramsay's an ass. He's an ass that can cook, but he's still an ass. He can barely interact with other humans let alone animals (if my boss swore at me or called me "big boy", I'd quit so fast he wouldn't know what hit him. And I'd probably hit him). But that doesn't mean he's wrong about this or right about foie gras.



I read your post again. Ramsay's a hypocrite, I get it. It's irrelevant. He's still right about shark fin soup.

Please carefully read over my comments again and also read over your response as well.

>> ^ChaosEngine:

>> ^legacy0100
So your argument is that it's ok for one ethnic group to wastefully kill an endangered species for an over-priced, tasteless status symbol because another ethnic group force feeds birds to make an over-priced status symbol?
Ah, the old "two wrongs make a right" argument! Ramsay's an ass. He's an ass that can cook, but he's still an ass. He can barely interact with other humans let alone animals (if my boss swore at me or called me "big boy", I'd quit so fast he wouldn't know what hit him. And I'd probably hit him). But that doesn't mean he's wrong about this or right about foie gras.

>> ^ipfreely:

Shark fin soup, brought to you by same people who eat Tiger testicles.
@dannym3141, You don't know what you are talking about. This is how Chinese people behave. They are not nice people in general.
It's their culture to fuck you over. Ever dealt with Chinese business people?
http://videosift.com/video/Fake-Eggs-and-Grapes-Being-Sold-In-China
They will fuck you over because even if you complain, there are others who you can fuck over.


Yeah, all 1.4 billion chinese people act exactly the same. Just like all americans are fat, all brits are snooty and all italians are mobsters.

That was an example of a generalisation. Generalisations aren't helpful. It's much better instead to look at an individual and judge them by their words and actions. That way, I can read your posts and safely decide you're a moron.

>> ^legacy0100:

Mind you that I have never tried shark fin soup, but I must point out that Ramsey again puts himself in the shoes of an extremist. I've seen the documentaries of Ramsay and he is not this intense egomaniac he presents himself in front of Cameras. So I'm not sure how much he believes in the things he's preaches in this video.
But my main concern of this video is this ridiculous Hypocracy that's going on in this video. He has yet again taken this role as a very ethnocentric typical westerner judging and criticizing cultures that are different from his own for the sake of entertaining television. In the video he is arguing that harvesting fins from sharks are bad because:
1. Sharks are endangered species
2. The rest of the shark meat is being wasted.
3. The fins doesn't taste that good.
4. Sharks are killed inhumanely.

Then I've compared it with a delicacy from western tradition: Foie gra. http://www.foodreference.com/html/artgoose.html
1. Foie Gras Geese are Specially bred species that will not survive out in the wild. They are specialized to live ina mechanized farm to yield maximum production.
2. Goose meat is generally gamier and intensely flavored, and considered a 'delicacy'. Translation= People would rather eat chicken.
3. A lot of Easteners do not like the taste of Foie Gras, as they consider it to be too rich and fatty.
4. Geese are force-fed against their will, and killed as any farm animal would.
The only difference between these two delicacies is that western chefs are 'taught' to be comfortable with process of making Foie Gras. They are 'taught' to think it's okay to force-feed the Goose, that they're physiologically different from us, and that shoving metal tubes down their throat doesn't hurt them as much as we imagine it to be, so it's okay to do it.
So as long as we are used to the idea, it's perfectly normal. After all, western chefs make good money off of serving Foie Gras. But Shark fins? No western customer has ever came in demanding those. So it's pretty useless in his/her eyes.
The only argument the western Foie Gras' got going for is that the Goose species isn't endangered, since it's bred in a mass farm, in a cramped space, being force-fed periodically.
Yea, I find this video very hypocritical. Oh and then there's the problem of Eurpoean fisheries over farming the fish and devastating local ecology. Oh and then there's western demand for large fish, which has created this monster of a shrimp farming economy in Southeast Asia that's basically creating the most disgusting thing you can put in your mouth, yet westerners still buy them up.
Yea. So... Why is Ramsay, someone who's openly endorsing these products by constantly releasing recipes using Foie Gras and other unethical shit, hosting this video?


So your argument is that it's ok for one ethnic group to wastefully kill an endangered species for an over-priced, tasteless status symbol because another ethnic group force feeds birds to make an over-priced status symbol?

Ah, the old "two wrongs make a right" argument! Ramsay's an ass. He's an ass that can cook, but he's still an ass. He can barely interact with other humans let alone animals (if my boss swore at me or called me "big boy", I'd quit so fast he wouldn't know what hit him. And I'd probably hit him). But that doesn't mean he's wrong about this or right about foie gras.

>> ^Drachen_Jager:

@dannym3141 You disagree, that's fine, you had a visit to China and you know all about it. I guess a lot of Americans 'know all about' Mexico from all the time spent in resorts there.
I'm not kidding, Chinese people who have lived here for over 30 years hate the new immigrants more than anyone. That's not because they're 'Chinese' it's because of what's become of the culture. I have lots of Chinese friends, but all of them have been here quite some time. It's not because I don't care to get to know more recent immigrants, but rather that they shun anyone who doesn't look and talk like they do, and my Mandarin is quite rusty, my skin too pale.


This would have been very cutting if i had stayed in a resort; i'll spare the details but i was in a beijing student accomodation or in xian staying with a family of the chinese students from beijing. I'm not a scholar of their culture, i'm just a guy who's been there and had to rely on a lot of good will from people who had no reason to give it.

On the subject of what modern china is like and whether it is populated with "horrible people" i think my moderate knowledge trumps your lack of knowledge? Please feel free to make some more wild assumptions about my life if it helps your monologues flow.

>> ^Drachen_Jager:

I'm sorry, but Chinese (the modern culture, not the race) are horrible people. Flame me all you want. I know first generation Chinese who came over 30-40 years ago who are kind, decent, hardworking people, but the more recent immigrants, who were really brainwashed under communism are mostly self-centred assholes, who would honestly keep eating shark-fin soup if it meant some random person in the third world would be executed for every bowl, because it's a good way to show everyone how rich they are. The Chinese people I know who have been here for over 30 years hate the new generation of Chinese more than anyone else. They represent a perversion of the culture by Mao, who admitted hating Chinese culture and did his best to destroy it.
Obviously this does not apply to all individuals, but the culture as a whole is sick.


Ok, speaking as someone who has very recently been to china for an extendad stay, and i've met and had extensive experience with young and middle aged chinese;

How did you get the impression they were horrible people? Every single person i met in china was generous and selfless and went a long way out of their way to make sure i had a good time and to make sure i was completely taken care of. Their culture almost DEMANDS them to be respectful and polite to strangers. Self centred is a word which i could not apply to a single one of the several hundred chinese people that i've met.

Show off their wealth? Do you realise that the chinese people are extremely poor? The government may be fucking rich but the people certainly aren't. They work their fucking arse off in a shit job they get given and they get paid pennies, PENNIES, and they work fucking hard at it and fucking long hours because guess what they'd get if they didn't? Fuck all. I have never met a more humble and polite people, the chinese people seem to me like the british were 60 years ago (of which i am proud and sad we're not like that anymore).

I must remind you, with my limited knowledge, of the Cultural Revolution and other periods in chinese history where the people were so poor and desperate that they would eat more or less anything to survive. I was told that diverse foods were more common in the south (i was in beijing and xian) and that they are also very poor there.

I don't know what modern china is a representation of, but i suspect you know less than you claim to about modern china.

I do not promote the eating of endangered species, and i do not know the ins and outs of the shark fin stuff, but i don't need to for the point i am making, because i address solely your retarded opinion that modern chinese are "horrible people".

If anything, i would probably rate the chinese people as being the nicest i've met. Least proportion of assholes to nice guys; i didn't meet a single asshole in china. No one even rudely bumped into me or in front of me, literally not a single chinese person gave me cause to be offended or upset in any way in the entire time i was having dealings with them. The chinese are amazing, the government isn't, and i hope the chinese will soon notice that.

You're an ass and i think you're quoting some shite that you've heard on some government-funded war-mongering tv show.

Thanks for the promote, I hope he can do it. Such a travesty.

In reply to this comment by Skeeve:
Amazing. I hope he can stop the sale of shark fin soup altogether.
*promote