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Sexism Strength and Dominance:Masculinity in Disney Films

Kreegath says...

Alright, had the movies told us to be alpha males/females (beings, if you will) then that would still account for about zero to one percent of gender role and body perception views if you ask me. There are lots of ways to raise ones child/children without them growing up to be either a Gaston, a Milton (see Office Space), or a suicidal emo goth person. Key here is communication, talking to the kids and not overanalyzing.
The kind of stories Disney portray in their movies are classical tales of heroes, and as we all know the story would be painfully boring for children to watch if the hero was Milton Waddams (Office Space) going to work in the office basement, battling hordes of Mongol marauders or even a hydra, or whatever else Disney has to throw at him. Actually, as a parent I'd be more concerned that my children would get a distorted view of modern day Englishmen from watching Pokahontas than I'd be of them becoming brawling alphamales from watching The Lion King.
Point is that YES, Disney films would be bad for kids if that's the ONLY interaction with the world they got. However, that's not a realistic scenario.

As for acceptance, I think that was the whole point of the Beauty and the Beast. Showing kids that a beautiful girl can fall in love with a monster instead of the buff alpha man-hulk goes a long way in showing acceptance, especially taking into consideration the backstory to the Beast becoming what he was.

My main gripe with this video is how it spins the reality of the movies, blatantly ignoring the obvious messages of them aswell as taking scenes out of context and adding their own to the scenes they've taken out. I can garantuee you that no kid in the world would see any Disney movie (neither consciously nor subconsciously) in the way shown in this video.
This is a fear monger's wet dream, much like saying that reading Donald Duck would promote indecency because he's not wearing any pants, or how showing kids the Smurfs will indoctrinate them into becoming communists.
In the end, I think that grownups see alot of things in cartoons that kids don't. And even if you see something in a comic that you don't agree with, shielding ones children by not letting them watch it won't protect them. All it will most likely do is truly give them a distorted world view in believing these issues does not exist. Key here, as I'd like to point out, is talking to ones kids about it.

As a closing note I'd also like to say that one of my very favourite films to date is the animated (in those days called cartoon) movie "Wizards". A highly destructive film for children to watch by today's standards. In all fairness it's not really a films for younglings, which needs to be said in hopes for me to not get misinterpreted.

Sexism Strength and Dominance:Masculinity in Disney Films

jmzero says...

Sounds like people don't like to question their daily dose of propaganda

Sounds like someone doesn't like examining the questioning of culture.

If you disagree with some of the points made by other posters - which I think are fairly reasonable - maybe explain your reasoning. Calling them babies, or implying they're not ready to examine their acceptance of popular culture or something, isn't productive and isn't going to change anyone's mind. They're making valid arguments, so respond in kind rather than dismissing them.

You might make a case, for example, that young viewers will not grasp the overall story message of Mulan (which I think is quite a positive one in terms of gender roles) - but instead will accept behaviors and attitudes modeled in certain scenes. Myself, I think most audience members will grasp that many of the behaviors being modeled are negative - that, for example, Gaston is being ridiculed rather than glorified. Some movies have certainly been very bad, but in general I think they're getting better and more sensitive on these fronts.

And when the focal point of a movie is that sexism is wrong, it's going to be hard not to have some of those negative behaviors portrayed.

Sexism Strength and Dominance:Masculinity in Disney Films

Kreegath says...

I didn't like this video and would downvote if I could, simply for the fact that they bring up stereotypical gender roles as something Disney tries to imprint in children (which I actually can agree with to some point).
However, my gripe with the creator of this video is when he shows us the scenes from "Beauty and the Beast" where Gaston shows his worst behaviour. This is what I have a problem with, as Gaston obviously is the bad guy and is clearly depicted as such even to the extent that small children can understand it. His advances also fails quite miserably, and in a humorously manner, which would also reinforce the lesson that acting like a man's man and treating women like objects (which is exactly like he does) is bad, especially when you take into consideration the mutually respecting relationship between Belle and the Beast.

EDIT: And the Mulan bit just made me laugh out loud. She quickly learns that masculinity is primarily defined by strength and physical prowess, does she? Never mind the pathetic try to imply that masculinity equals sexism, does the commenter actually try to say that Mulan somehow teach children to fall into the classical gender roles? Seriously, that's the dumbest thing I've heard this millennium.

The only thing that I can imagine the creator of this video would find completely PC would be 90 minutes of those little ghost creatures from Princess Mononoke. However, we couldn't possibly have the word "princess" in the title as it would subconsciously force all girls watching it into becoming subordinate to boys.

How Many Times Have You Been Spanked? Busted!

Lithic says...

Have to say I disagree with you persephone, even though I agree with you at large about wife-jokes. There seems to be a general opinion that a mans freedom and life is hampered by marriage, a conception that I think has to do with classic gender roles at large. But it is also the reason that I disagree with you about the joke being offensive and that T-man should exercise more self-censoring when posting about women/wives (which in turn is a pretty offensive concept to me).

In the end this joke really makes no comment about women/wives in general, just about this couples specific relationship and by your own admittance it is your own reading of the joke coupled you’re your own situation and your own interpretation of the current social climate and other wife jokes that make it offensive to YOU. Frankly that seems to narrow the field of the people who would take offence at it very considerably.

Obviously (as you say) this joke strikes a cord with people, and judging by the up-vote a lot more people find its value then find it offensive. It’s likely to assume that people find it funny/enlightening/whatever precisely because it makes a comment about current social views as amounts to marriage and gender roles, even if they don’t put that analysis into it themselves and just find it funny because they relate to it or find the stereotypes amusing.

I didn’t really find it amusing either but in the end his freedom to express this commentary weighs heavier to me then your right not to be offended by that commentary. Especially since your problem in this case seems to lie with popular opinion or society at large rather then this joke in particular or T-mans method of conveying it. Frankly the chance of offending someone with that particular joke seems very slim, even as sexist jokes go, if it is to be considered as such (the fact that it DID happen to offend someone in this case notwithstanding).

To demand of T-man to exercise more self-censuring to the point of not posting these types of very tame jokes (in my opinion), would be asking too much and might deprive people of what many obviously find valuable comments.

[EDIT] I also upvoted T-mans comment before I decided to write this, but more to show support of me finding it acceptable then finding it funny. As an additional note about its offensiveness I can mention this video:
http://www.videosift.com/video/Zero-Punctuation-Review-Super-Mario-Galaxy
Just in the first minute Princess Peach is referred to as Marios "emotionally retarded ball and chain", a "needy bitch who fails to put out" and a "clueless bint". So it seems to me that if these types of stereotypes and jokes is something that is in danger of offending a lot of people then things like that would be of higher priority then comments like T-mans (on a side note I did however find that video hilarious).



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