Pi 'occurs' (actually almost never, but 'close enough' circles and ellipses are all over the place) in nature because as far as we know it is fundamentally built into the physics of our world. A point charge creates a spherically symmetric electric field. A point wave source creates a spherically propagating wave.

Phi is just the positive solution to X^2 - X - 1 = 0. It has nothing to do with symmetry, an altogether separate concept.

Of course it's a 'real' ratio (as opposed to i/2, which is an imaginary ratio), but then so is every other real number; there isn't anything mystical about ratios.

As for Da Vinci's discovery... the golden ratio is approximately 1.618; e (a much more important constant) is approx. 2.718; maybe the 'real' proportion is e - 1 (approx. 1.718)? I bet if I look hard enough, I could find e - 1 all over the place.

I don't see how a 9 page study from 1974 (with only the first page visible) talking about people selecting between rectangles has more authority than Leonardo Da Vinci's famous discovery of the proportions correlating to the human body. You just researched it half arsed and tried to find a quote real quick that supported your gross association to Nazism and pseudoscience. I hope this gets popular just so more people can see how horribly ridiculous your arguments are in calling proportional symmetry a concept similar nazi aerian superiority. You can't reply and you run away only because you didn't bother to see how ridiculous and irrelevant the article you were citing was. I'm honestly disgusted and even more disgusted you'd try to correlate this to a debate between a religious fundamentalist and a logical person. You're shameless and unwilling to admit it was a hyperbolic claim you made ignorantly thinking the golden ratio was some kind of hollywood hype rather than a real mathematical ratio. Sick. Just. Sick.

Mathematical proportions and symmetry relating to beauty is not BS or nazism. I hope the way you cited that article without reading it will haunt you at night.

?????

That's a 9 page article asking 3 groups of 55 people to chose different rectangles that appeared in some magazine!! What does THAT have to do with beauty? The golden ratio has also been applied to music. Heck even Zelda Music uses the golden ratio.
http://www.thetanooki.com/2007/03/03/zelda-music-of-golden-proportions/


Da Vinci was the first to identify that the proportions of the human body have the golden ratio occurring over and over again. I'm sorry but this picture:
http://www.drawingsofleonardo.org/images/vitruvian.jpg

is a little more famous than your articles about people's preferences selecting rectangles.

> Basically almost everyone on this earth who looks 'normal' will fit within that graphed mask.
no. Symmetry between the right and left side of the face is a big part of beauty. The more healthy people look, also the more beautiful. I can give you a source if you want but seems like common sense.

>Besides, it's no rocket science that you'd find a man with 2 feet of jaws and a cranium the size of Jupiter not fit for 'pretty ratio'. Duh.

??? Yeah the more disproportionate the more people are generally considered ugly. Similarly the more in perfect proportion the more good looking. I don't see why you say duh, because that's just supporting the golden ratio, which you call BS and compare to nazism in the first comment... how upsetting too. This vid shows people how to have fun with gimp, learn a little more about the structural differences between a male and a female (the main point), and on the side teaches people about how the golden ratio corresponds to the face. I hope people don't look to your comment as a review for the video -_-.

What does Da Vinci have to do with scientific evidence of 'ideal beauty'?

A man drew a chick with no eyebrows. Whoa, so beautiful, eh?

If you want a REAL scientific research paper done on this subject, I found this in JSTOR:

http://links.jstor.org/sici?sici=0002-9556(197403%2F06)87%3A1%2F2%3C269%3AT'SAAO%3E2.0.CO%3B2-W

The 'Golden Section': An Artifact of Stimulus Range and Measure of Preference
Michael Godkewitsch
The American Journal of Psychology, Vol. 87, No. 1/2 (Mar. - Jun., 1974), pp. 269-277

Quote from Abstract:

"The conclusion is that preference for the golden section is an artifact of its position in the range of stimuli presented and of the measures of preference rather than of any intrinsic aesthetic quality."

I do admit that there's some type of 'universally ugly' or 'universally pretty' face do exist in this world. But I'm pretty dang certain that golden ratio doesn't apply here. Basically almost everyone on this earth who looks 'normal' will fit within that graphed mask.

Besides, it's no rocket science that you'd find a man with 2 feet of jaws and a cranium the size of Jupiter not fit for 'pretty ratio'. Duh.

> legacy0100
Da Vinci is the one that showed how the human body, not just the face is symmetrical with the golden ratio. You might recognize the images below...
http://www.drawingsofleonardo.org/images/vitruvian.jpg
http://www.drawingsofleonardo.org/images/blue_head.jpg

In a study they found attractiveness comes down to simple averages, which in turn fit more closely to symmetry of the golden ratio
http://www.livescience.com/health/060927_attractiveness_mind.html
http://www.faceresearch.org/demos/average

Da Vinci's ideas and the what people think is beautiful is not Nazism...

*promote - ing one of the most popular artists on VideoSift. This is the longest post that goes into the actual mechanics and design of these remarkable beasts. For the more entertaining and shorter clips, check these out:

http://www.videosift.com/video/A-Modern-Day-Da-Vinci

http://www.videosift.com/video/Theo-Jansen-Makes-A-Plastic-Robot-Powered-By-Wind

http://www.videosift.com/video/Another-Wind-Powered-Robot-By-Theo-Jansen

the list from youtube...

Leonardo Da Vinci,
Raphael,
Titian,
Botticelli,
Boltraffio,
Albrecht Durer,
Lucas Cranach the Elder,
Messina, Perugino,
Hans Memling,
El Greco,
Hans Holbein,
Rokotov,
Peter Paul Rubens,
Gobert,
Caspar Netscher,
Pierre Mignard,
Jean-Marc Nattier,
Vigee-Le Brun,
Sir Joshua Reynolds,
Winterhalter,
Tyranov,
Borovikovsky,
Venetsianov,
Gros,
Kiprensky,
Amalie,
Corot,
Edouard Manet,
Flatour,
Ingres,
Wontner,
Bouguereau,
Comerre,
Leighton,
Blaas,
Renoir,
Millias,
Duveneck,
Cassatt,
Weir,
Zorn,
Mucha,
Paul Gaugan,
Henri Matisse,
Picabia,
Gustav Klimt,
Hawkins,
Magritte,
Salvador Dali,
Malevich,
Merrild,
Modigliani,
Pablo Picasso

Death Note is a Japanese manga series originally written by Tsugumi Ohba and illustrated by Takeshi Obata. The series primarily centers around a high school student who decides to rid the world of evil with the help of a supernatural notebook that kills anyone whose name is written in it.

Death Note has also been adapted for big screen in the form of two live-action films. The first film (simply called Death Note) premiered in Japan on June 17, 2006 and topped the Japanese box office for two straight weeks, pushing The Da Vinci Code into second place. It is mostly faithful to the manga (with some slight alterations such as the addition of Light's girlfriend Shiori and the circumstances in which Light and L first meet), starting with Light in a university and flashing back a year or so to him receiving the Death Note. It ends with his first meeting with L.

The second movie, Death Note: The Last Name, premiered on November 3, 2006, and instantly topped the Japanese box office, remaining at number one for four straight weeks, and grossed 5.5 billion yen in Japan by the end of the year, making it one of the year's highest grossing Japanese films. It combines elements from the rest of the storyline creating an outcome similar to the manga, but with a few key differences.

The trailer for the second film is here. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-CHXyEboDVo

A spin-off film, featuring L as the main character, is currently in production to be released in Japan in 2007. The sequel is set in the United States.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_note

Seriously throughout this video I was all like "please, please,please do mona lisa", and suddenly the painting appear!! its surely part of the da-vinci code conspiracy, guess I'll have to read the book now..

She was the only saving grace in "Da Vinci Code"....same chick, right?? Audrey? God she's minxishly cute!

Can't vote this though; A musician, who loves piano as well,-a bit too melancholic
for the grey-matt buds. Hits like a soundtrack to a freekin' Dostoevsky novel!

Want some pie-anny? Got some comin'!

Dear McAfee:

I went to goggle.com and searched - just like you - for "da vinci code". Nothing happened.

Well, in the spirit of full disclosure, FF did say that it prevented a popup at goggle.com. That's about it.

To close, my Mac and Firefox have nothing but contempt for you, McAfee.

Hugzzzz!
Oohahh

The Bible was "historical fiction" WAY before Dan Brown came up with "The Da Vinci Code".
It's a clearly fictional story REALLY loosely built around historical events. Sorry, Bible-bangers.