So blankfist does support violence and coercion under certain circumstances. Good to know. Nice argument Aikido, dghandi!

>> ^Raaagh:

>> ^westy:
"my energry"
fail so retarded ,
its called using gravity , body wait and the directoin of those forces. not "chi" or simply "energy" with no blody descriptoin as to what context the word is been used in.

There is no direct english translation. But calling it "gravity" is a massive fail.


your a fail,

just read what jubuttib put he has it right.

Evan though i didnot say "its called gravity" i think you will find that a Huge propotoin of getting sumone on the ground efficently is pritty much about using gravity and manipulating an indaviduals center of gravity.

Its quite clear that a good propotoin of pracitoiners of asain marsail arts are not using the word "Chi"/"qi" or hwoever its spelt as a way to describe a scentific force , Origonaly i thought it was litraly a case of them having another word that was not ment to be mystical, but its often used in the context of beeing mystical and magical. ( u can understand why when in the past that would be a good way to intimidate an oponent if they think your a magical person and ohnislty belive it then they are going to be shitting themselfs and hardly put up a good fight)

but now its just plain retarded.

I agree that the mystical definitions of chi are retarded, when they're actually talking about momentum, center of mass etc. But the terms have been in use for centuries and back then people didn't know any better. It's kinda tough to cut those ties. It's a simple umbrella term for a LOT of more advanced scientific concepts.

And while demonstrations are always just demonstrations, I have zero doubt that aikido is a very effective self defense system. But compared to, say, thai-boxing, it requires a damn sight more expertise before it becomes that effective, meaning it's not something you can utilize even after a year or three.

I don't love the martial side of it, but I do love the art.

>> ^westy:

"my energry"
fail so retarded ,
its called using gravity , body wait and the directoin of those forces. not "chi" or simply "energy" with no blody descriptoin as to what context the word is been used in.


There is no direct english translation. But calling it "gravity" is a massive fail.

Strange to come across this video though because I just got back from a weekend Aikido seminar out of town.

I'm not a big believer in Ki. To me it's all about body mechanics rather than some undefinable energy. I've been to a few Maruyama Sensei seminars (Kokikai) and he's all about Ki but it just came across to me like a marketing trick designed to appeal to Americans. I even uked for Maruyama Sensei through an entire seminar and truthfully, I played along with all his Ki power demonstrations (hell, he's 8th Dan) but I fealt like I could have pushed him over at any time.

Anyway, although Seagal Sensei obviously develops a lot of power from his center, I can't help but feel that his sheer mass plays a big part in his Aikido. That and his "Sensei Power", that intangible mystical force that made me pretend I couldn't push over an 80 year old man in front of his own students.

Oh that's possible. I don't know when my sensei trained with Steven, but know for sure he trained under Ueshiba (my sensei, not Steven).

Honestly, I think Steven's contributions to martial arts has more to do with his outsized ego than his ability. Many of the practitioners in my dojo are probably just as skilled, if not more so, than Steven, but they simply don't have his charisma.

I don't think his size is really at cause for his power, however. In aikido, size can serve as a detriment if it is not embodied within the hara -- the center -- and moves with the hips, as in any athletic endeavor.

And as someone who has experienced the kind of qi he references here, the energy is in no way mystical. It is a real phenomenon with actual effects on the mat.

>> ^TheFreak:

>> ^Trancecoach:
My Aikido sensei, an 8th Dan, trained under the founder of Aikido with Steven. when you learn to embody the principles, the art is quite beautiful
His demo starts around 1:15 in this video.

Morehei Ueshiba died in 1969. Steven Seagal went to Japan in 1974. So Seagal never learned Aikido from the founder.
His accomplishments in Aikido are still impressive though. Undoubtedly the biggest influence in popularizing the martial art in the US.
And to elevate one of Westy's points, I suspect he gets more power from being 6'4" than he gets from any form of mystical, universal energy.

Trancecoach's door slams. Twenty two minutes later Trancecoach confronts his Aikido instructor at the dojo. Voices are raised. A struggle ensues. Trancecoach wrestles with his "8th dan" Aikido master. Eventually he gets the better of him when he finally pins his teacher's shoulders to the mat -- despite the fact he's only been taking Aikido for four and a half months.

>> ^Trancecoach:
My Aikido sensei, an 8th Dan, trained under the founder of Aikido with Steven. when you learn to embody the principles, the art is quite beautiful
His demo starts around 1:15 in this video.


Morehei Ueshiba died in 1969. Steven Seagal went to Japan in 1974. So Seagal never learned Aikido from the founder.

His accomplishments in Aikido are still impressive though. Undoubtedly the biggest influence in popularizing the martial art in the US.

And to elevate one of Westy's points, I suspect he gets more power from being 6'4" than he gets from any form of mystical, universal energy.

My Aikido sensei, an 8th Dan, trained under the founder of Aikido with Steven. when you learn to embody the principles, the art is quite beautiful

His demo starts around 1:15 in this video.

>> ^Nithern:
Where does the techinques comes from? Hollywood.
...Moving in close, before the bat starts to swing is handled in aikido...
I don't know. I'm a Sandan in Aikido and my training tells me that when someone comes swinging a bat the best technique is to RUN. Some people would argue that Aikido doesn't work but I'd put my 'Baseball Bat Evasion' technique up against anyone else's, any day of the week.



But yeah, Hollywood. It's well known where I train that every time a Hollywood martial arts blockbuster comes out our enrollment's going to go through the roof.

Where does the techinques comes from? Hollywood. That's right, check any bad ninja movie from the 80's, and one or both of those 'techniques' will be in the film.

The first one looks like it would be from Karate, except, anyone who teachs it, would advise you evading the bat when the guy swings and THEN, attacking while the guy is off-balanced from the attack. Moving in close, before the bat starts to swing is handled in aikido (and other martial arts).

>> ^zor:
I can't think of anything to compare this to in the US or anywhere else so I'd be interested to hear any opinions on this.

I believe it's somewhat common in Japanese martial arts.

Aikiki, the largest Aikido organization in the world, has minimum age requirements for 6th - 8th Dan Ranks.
6th Dan, Age 33, 6 years after attaining 5th Dan
7th Dan, Age 45, 12 years after attaining 6th Dan
8th Dan, Age 60, 15 years after attaining 7th Dan
There have been so few 9th and 10th Dan Aikidoka in the history of the sport that there's no reason to list requirements for those ranks.

>> ^chilaxe:
This video shows collusion (my job is to make you and our techniques look good) not "attack."

Agree. Still upvoted for young Steven Seagal and because they succeeded in making it look good.

I'd be happy to elaborate.

In the first 40 seconds of this video, there seem to be 4 claims that go against the available information.

1. "Multiple person attack."

2. "[They] try to take you down."

3. This technique makes them "able to deal with more than one attacker at a time."

4. "...certainly for one on one, that's how we train."


This video shows collusion (my job is to make you and our techniques look good) not "attack." Aikidoists would be unprepared for any real attack situation unless the attacker is colluding, in which case they wouldn't be an attacker.

If aikidoists admitted aikido has a problem that they should start talking about and trying to improve, that's all I'm asking for. Good changes start with small steps.

This video's a good test of which of your friends is gullible.

Unless Aikido followers can prove their extravagant claims empirically like everybody else in a modern intellectual society, the assumption is that they don't compete not because their magical dogma forbids it, but because if they did, it would look like this: http://www.videosift.com/video/Kiai-Master-Gets-Owned

If you disagree with that statement, please join me in advocating that Aikido followers prove it wrong.

It's good to see bad ideas get filtered out of the marketplace of ideas.