welcome to the united states of europe

The EU has long been a project of the leaders, the public has in most countries been against the EU. But since countries, including mine, view the public as unable to comprehend politics they have been ignored. There was no vote about this in my country, in fact there has only been two votes in 90 years. Votes about laws here are more like polling, the leaders don't have to hold them and they can ignore the results. That's representative democracy for you - and I happen to think it's the preferable system when most people really don't know much about politics. If you want direct democracy there are states in Switzerland that do this.

As for the Lisbon Treaty, it was advertised as bringing more transparency to the EU. As it today really is an elitist club complete with ministers meeting behind closed doors and a parliament with no power.
The advantage the EU brings to smaller countries is that their voice is heard. The world could use another superpower as Russia, the USA, and (as of late) China, aren't exactly model democracies.

Understanding why Ireland voted "no" is essential for future legislature, not to mention the continuing cooperation of European states. Behaving like impetuous children doesn't really give credence to Ireland's vote, which is exactly the appearance they give if unable and unwilling to give a reason why they don't like the Lisbon treaty in its current form.
Remember, this is an arguably new coalition of some very old countries who have a history of having waged war on each other for hundreds of years. It's unreasonable to expect each country entering the EU to just drop its history and embrace every aspect of the union without having a say in the manner of which it's carried out. With so many members, these things will take time to work out as the members gradually begin to trust in the process and in each other.

Mocking the woman making the inquiry on their reasoning behind the vote and trying to make her into some sort of villain like she's portrayed in this video, to me, seems typical of a film creator who doesn't understand the process of politics and legislature, or is violently against the EU and resorts to smear tactics to make false accusations against it.

That being said, if the rules do indeed state that every country must ratify the treaty for it to come into effect, then of course it has to be adjusted in order for every country to find it acceptable. What I'm getting at is that Ireland voting "no" doesn't necessarily mean the treaty is lost, but that Ireland can state why so the negotiations for altering it to better suit their needs can commence. Also, making the assumption that none of us are really very vised in the workings of the EU legislature system, I'd advise caution before calling the change of the EU constitution to an "amending treaty" or a "reform treaty" a fraud, simply because we don't know whether it really is just that or if any alterations have been made to warrant it being relabeled.

It seems to me that the person making this video is showing two groups of people arguing different topics altogether. Of course Ireland's opposition of the treaty should stop it from proceding according to the rules set up for that system of legislature, but should in no way impede the process of ratification of the other member countries. If there are additional oppositions, their voices need to be heard aswell if the process is to avoid dragging out for decades, not to mention fulfilling the true intent of the democratic ideas. It's possible to both respect Ireland's "no" and the remaining countries' voice, so obviously I must be missing something in this debate.

I'd personally like to see the EU prosper, so my hopes are that it'll keep growing and improve under my lifetime to eventually be deserving of all our trust.

*long

This video has been flagged as being at least 10 minutes in length - declared long by rasch187.

"Behaving like impetuous children doesn't really give credence to Ireland's vote, which is exactly the appearance they give if unable and unwilling to give a reason why they don't like the Lisbon treaty in its current form."

I call bullshit. Give examples of Irish people behaving like impetuous children, no one in a free country has to justify or explain their fucking vote!

Lisbon requires unanimity, it doesnt have it. Its finished. But hey! Rules are meant to be broken!

They ask you what you think, you vote and then they ignore the result and say "wrong answer, you'll have to vote again next year". Fuck EU "democracy". Fuck the Irish government and that bollox Cowen.

I almost expected as much. I support the EU, and cooperation, but no more than that. To see Brian Cowen brush off the result and go off to Europe to get his orders to vote again was just shameful. He has dishonoured his office and irish democracy itself. He should have accepted the result, and stood behind it. Instead he stood in front of EU leaders, bent over and the irish electorate got shafted. The people spoke and said "No" but he immediately started spinning for another vote next year.

Asking why did people vote no is bullshit 101, step one in denying the result. Heres a fucking clue, THEY DISAGREED and they are pissed off with people being ignored everytime they say no. Then they say (as in the video and the corporate media) "oh, the no campaign was too good", "people are too stupid to understand" etc. The people listened to the parties, the media, and they read the text, followed the campaign for months and they said No.

Let Europe go ahead with a U.S.E. or what ever they want. We already share a flag, anthem, currency, central bank, parliament, council, courts, laws and rights, freedom of travel and residency to name a tiny fraction of what makes up EU co operation. Thats not enough because as they say themselves, "We need to be able to compete with the USA militarily".

The last thing the world needs is another greedy fucking superpower run by corrupt unaccountable amoral cuntbags.

Okay I'm done. Little angry at the whole overthrow of democracy thing. Kind of gets to me. Btw I voted no

I have to confess ignorance on the particulars of what's going on in the EU, but I agree that there's a glaring lack of information in this video on what the Irish objection is. It doesn't mean the video is biased necessarily, just that it assumes a common knowledge I lack.

However, I agree that there should be a huge backlash against bucking a democratic process, even if what the Irish are doing is the EU equivalent of Republicans upholding a Presidential veto for expanding a children's healthcare program at Christmas.

There isn't much reason to harp about national sovereignty here in the US (since we're a sovereignty vampire around the world), but I think they should proceed very delicately if the current direction of the EU is towards a federal government, with a federalized form of citizenship.

Railroading the process without referendum seems like a recipe for revolution. Europeans aren't complacent like Americans. If their government steps on their rights too much, the government will wind up with their heads on pikes in the city square.