Siftbot, kick this fucking hornet's nest!

Self promoting this video and sending it back into the queue for one more try; last queued Tuesday, October 19th, 2010 5:19pm PDT - promote requested by original submitter blankfist.

From '06

Democrats and Republicans= Capitalist parties

One way to look at it though is that if there were a draft, you can bet your ass we would end our wars a lot quickly. We've lost a lot of people in our recent wars, but if more families were forced to face the burden of sending a loved one off to possibly die, I can almost guarantee you more people would be re-thinking their views on sending troops over there.

I firmly believe there are enough people out there who view the military as indentured servants and that since we still have an all-volunteer army, that means we can afford to get them to do our dirty work, no matter how poorly thought out it is. If more people were forced to send their sons and daughters over there instead of just the ones who chose to serve, I think it would change things for the better.

but then again..a lot more people are going to have to die for that change to occur though.

@VoodooV, I don't think that's a very good way of looking at the draft. We did have a draft not terribly long ago, and yes it certainly affected people more because it hit close to home, but even though the wars ended, the occupations never did. The US still maintains hegemonic influence and military presence in 150 of the world's 194 countries. The draft didn't change that then and it wouldn't change that now. At some point we have to realize the US is a nationalist Empire and not a bastion of freedom and democracy as history likes to frame it.

As an aside, we have Milton Friedman to thank for getting rid of the draft.

Not much of a hornet's nest. More of a political posture to make a point.

The idea isn't that Charlie Rangel wanted to continue the wars, and make sure we're adequately prepared for new ones with Iran and North Korea. Out of context quotes makes it look that way, but of course it was just a ploy to make Republicans put up or shut up.

If the war in Iraq was about an existential threat to the US, the case for a draft should be airtight. If Republicans don't want a draft, then aren't they just full of shit?

If they do want a draft, what better way to focus people's attention on the war, and get them to really start organizing in opposition to it, even if the bill fails on a narrow party-line vote (or even better, a Bush veto).

I'd say that's a pretty ballsy gambit to drive the national debate. The problem, as always, was the Democrats didn't really form a coherent strategy or message to go along with it, and the bill got voted down without anyone really paying attention to it.

Nice spin job, @NetRunner. So the Democrat position was "let's reinstate the draft so we can motivate Republicans to end the war"? News flash, we no longer have a Republican acting as Commander in Chief so if the Dems really wanted to end the wars then... why don't they?

For that matter, why don't they close down the 700+ military bases in the 150 countries overseas? Why not put an end to the US as an Empire? Because they like it that way. They enjoy war as long as they're on the winning team. They think violence is moral and justified if it creates an end they desire.

Sometimes I think staunch supporters of Republicans and Democrats are nothing more than narcissistic sadist sociopaths. What ugly and awful people.

I think it would work. The only way we can have these wars is that we have a "fighting class" all volunteer because they have no better options. If we made it a requirement again we wouldn't have to fight a "Guns and Butter" war as it's known and it would become extremely unpopular and be stopped almost immediately.

The '60s really helped us out to the point where now Wars have to be under specific criteria...one of them is that the target has to be completely helpless...no threat whatsoever. The idea is so you can go in...smash them and set up the place how you want it to be run. Iraq is Vietnam people don't seen to remember just how friggin awful Vietnam was and how awful Iraq could've been. It's much better than it really could've been...there could've been absolutely nothing left.

So yeah talk about the draft and people might start thinking about wars a bit more seriously. In anycase it's wrong to have a "fighting class" it causes a lot of serious problems.

>> ^NetRunner:

Not much of a hornet's nest. More of a political posture to make a point.
The idea isn't that Charlie Rangel wanted to continue the wars, and make sure we're adequately prepared for new ones with Iran and North Korea. Out of context quotes makes it look that way, but of course it was just a ploy to make Republicans put up or shut up.
If the war in Iraq was about an existential threat to the US, the case for a draft should be airtight. If Republicans don't want a draft, then aren't they just full of shit?
If they do want a draft, what better way to focus people's attention on the war, and get them to really start organizing in opposition to it, even if the bill fails on a narrow party-line vote (or even better, a Bush veto).
I'd say that's a pretty ballsy gambit to drive the national debate. The problem, as always, was the Democrats didn't really form a coherent strategy or message to go along with it, and the bill got voted down without anyone really paying attention to it.


Yes, that is the context, but I still think this Should be our national policy. No more chickenhawks sending other peoples kids to war.

But, that's not why The-User-Who-Shall-Not-Be-Named posted this, is it? He doesn't want informed conversation: shit stirrer.

My life is mine. It is not yours, Mr Rengal. I would say the same thing to a republican too.

Context or not. A draft is unacceptable, and so are the current wars.

@blankfist, why is it that the only context you ever bring up war, past or present, is to try to blame Democrats for them?

Why not try to raise the profile of the anti-war movement, and raise awareness about the war itself?

There's a whole pro-war media campaign that's been going on for 10 years now. The anti-war movement has always been starved for attention, and the media pretty much refuses to report on the horrors of our continuing conflicts. Videosift seems like an ideal place for correcting both problems.

Also, why not be honest, and admit that most of the people who would sign on for a really radical peace program are people who want to see universal healthcare, and not people who think taxes are slavery?

Based on your actions and comments, it seems to me that the wars themselves aren't your real concern. Instead, it seems that your chief concern is trying to weaken support for Democratic candidates.

I think @NordlichReiter hit the nail on the head. What jurisdiction does the government have over our life? Does that jurisdiction also include the ability to enact compulsory service onto the individual even when it's not a redress-able service for a violation of legal rights or damage?

You're black on the right side of your face and white on the left.

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