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This looks interesting, being that it's going to be submitted relentlessly, I needn't vote or watch it now. It's too sunny out to sit and absorb it, and I'm going out in a canoe instead.

This could be madness or truth, or both knowing the submitter.

I'll watch it later, like schmawy. I'm at a friend's this weekend, which is why I've barely been seen around here for the past couple days. Could be interesting.

Also dont have time to watch, but is this related
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20080523.wlnatural23/BNStory/specialScienceandHealth/home

Happy Memorial day to all, god bless the Marine Corps, in and out as well, hot as Malaysia in SE Texas.....feels great to sweat-much love for getting back to me....have fun all you cats, stay safe, sane, and single-

Chogster,
I didn't have time to watch it either, but I did anyway. This is a tough one. I'll try to keep it brief, but that may be hard.

On vitamins and minerals;
If you eat a healthy balanced diet (raise hands please)you get all the vitamins and minerals you need. That's SO not the case in many undeveloped countries, as they rarely eat balanced diets. Taking extra water soluble vitamins, i.e. Vit C, will not hurt you, but it will give you expensive urine. Taking extra fat soluble vitamins can be outright dangerous. Vit A is hepatotoxic in high doses. I recall seeing a patient with end stage liver cirrhosis from chronic cod-liver oil (rich in Vit A) ingestion (how someone can get addicted to that is beyond me.)

There is little credible evidence to prove "extra" amounts of vitamins, above what your body really needs, is of any benefit to your health. Selenium supplementation has been associated with decreased prostate cancer. (So has rapid turnover of spermatozoa and it's more fun than taking selenium.)

The problem with "natural supplements" is several fold. (1) They are still chemicals and, therefore, are not easily differentiated from standard pharmaceuticals, many of which come from plants as well. (2) There is VERY lax quality control in the production of many of these drugs. Assays on potency have shown up to a 100 fold difference between brands that supposedly have the same amount of drug in one pill. (3)Taken in excess, drugs like ephedra are dangerous. It's amphetamine. It will give you a boost in energy, but it also may give you a hypertensive crisis or a fatal arrhythmia.

Medicine is science, and like any scientific endeavor, the proof is in the pudding. There are very few credible studies that demonstrate much benefit to "natural supplements." One speaker in the video, Jim Turner, laments that some of these drugs fall victim to "systematic cause and effect mentality" of the pharmaceutical companies and their "huge, expensive studies." That statement is intellectually bankrupt and I don't think I have to point that out. It takes huge expensive studies to achieve the power of analysis necessary to detect a benefit a drug might have on a relatively rare condition. Say for instance, a drug reduces by 50% the incidence of a complication that happens only once in a thousand patients. You will need to enroll thousands and thousands of patients to reach a power of analysis that will approach statistical significance. It takes, on average, almost a billion dollars to get a typical pharmaceutical drug from synthesis to the US market and that's, in part, due to the rigorous process the FDA requires.

On antidepressants;
Eating right, getting enough sleep, regular exercise and playing in the sunshine are as effective as marketed antidepressants. The side effect of "activation" of SSRIs has been understated. Patients with bipolar illness, rather than typical depression, can experience mania or hypomania, with increased anxiety, racing thoughts and insomnia. That's not what a depressed person needs. While not proven, my personal opinion is that this heightened sense of anxiety may play a possible role in the risk of suicide. Please remember, mentally ill people can hide their illness well. Unforeseen suicides are not uncommon and it's easy to pin the blame on a new medicine, or some other unrelated factor.

I told you it would be difficult for me to be brief. I've practiced for 25 years now.
(1) The FDA is NOT suppressing effective therapies.
(2) All drugs, natural supplements included, should undergo systematic randomized prospective studies to assess their efficacy before being labeled as effective (sadly, that's not always the case)
(3) The drug companies are shamelessly pandering to the public and downplaying side-effects. They have been successful in creating a herd mentality in the U.S. of "I don't feel right, I need a drug." Direct advertising to the public should be BANNED.

I forgot to mention;
The issue of blood/ozone therapies came up recently. Not knowing much about this "alternative" type therapy (whose proponents say the drug companies and FDA are conspiring to suppress its use), I went to www.pubmed.com, searched and reviewed the last 15 years of the world literature on the therapy. There are NO credible randomized, prospective studies to show it's effective. But, google it and see how many web pages are devoted to this "wonder drug."

The vast majority of the published literature on blood/ozone therapy comes from one clinic in Italy, one clinic in Cuba, one hospital in Poland, and an unknown facility in Russia.

Yet, gullible people are regularly exploited by this kind of crap. While ozone therapy is widely available world-wide, I could not find a single developed country with a public health-care system that endorsed its use, or would even pay for the therapy. Therefore, people end up paying out of pocket and who do you think benefits from that? The salesman.

Okay, I watched it in bits and pieces, and though it is worth viewing, I still find myself largely in agreement with what snoozie said. People who who claim that the FDA is suppressing effective therapies usually have market-driven agendas of their own. The natural and herbal supplements industry is a multi-billion dollar one. Maybe they're not as big as the pharmaceuticals industry, but they're no underdog. How have "natural" supplements gone unregulated for so long if it weren't for the clout they have in lobbying?

Antidepressants are a sticky wicket. Though what snoozie said about eating right, exercising, etc. holds true for a large segment of the population, there is also a small segment of the population that battles chronic depression even with doing everything right. I am one such person. Though living well can help my mood a lot, even then I still have days when I see the world through blue-colored glasses. I'm pretty sure it's a genetic predisposition, as there are a disproportionate number of family members on my mother's side of the family with mood disorders, with most of those cases being depression. My depression has gotten severe a couple of times in my life, and both times it happened after I went off my meds for a while. Getting back on them was the only thing that brought me out of the darkness. I've stayed on antidepressants ever since my son was born, because he deserves a dad who isn't teetering on institutionalization.

I believe I understand snoozie's point though about antidepressants being bad for some people, in that if a bipolar patient is misdiagnosed with unipolar depression the outcome could be catastrophic. Hopefully a good clinician can recognize the difference, but that's not always the case. Doctors make mistakes too.

Now I've rambled on too long as well. My friend's going to wonder why I came to visit if I stay on the computer much longer. Ciao.

My frustration is not with the production or regulation of pharmaceuticals, but with the concentration and increase of power in the hands of a few, and the income that unnecessary pharmaceuticals nets one of 5 or so, of the largest industries ever created, in recorded history-
Agreed that diet is key. When you mentioned underdeveloped countries, immediately thought of the USA, considering the ratio of healthy to unhealthy folks here, with respect to diet-We have the means to educate everyone on nutrition, and by the same means, provide a way to redirect the psychic dependence on the medical establishment, and her promise of facility, and affordable care-as it is now, the mantra is, "create the problem(let people stay fat and unhealthy), provide a solution(buy our drugs and insurance)"

I don't ascribe to any vitamins,extracts, or alternative treatments, unless prescribed by a ninety-year old Chinese woman....so, I wholeheartedly agree with the snake-oil element, being as faulty as the system's approved, structured, and watch-dogged apparatus-

the paradigm is corrupt-and the fissures becoming gorges-

The anti-depressants and pain-killers, gone tomorrow, would not be missed...folks would do as they have always done, self-medicate and deal.

Nationalized health care is a cop-out. It gives the beast more power.
Stop poisoning your body with food.

Good points all,
I don't know what the answer is for our national epidemic of obesity. It is totally out of control. U.S. citizens are addicted to "value" of portions, i.e. "how much food can I get for a dollar?" and addicted to high carbohydrate diets. It's sugar, with it's stimulation of insulin secretion, that makes you obese, not fat. Sedentary lifestyles are also a huge problem.

People can criticize the fast food chains (our local newspaper editor laments the decision to exempt restaurant chains from lawsuits by obese people....arrrggg.), but you can't blame a business for giving the public what they want. And don't throw that brainwashing business at me, TAKE SOME PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY. QUIT EATING SO MUCH.

Depression has a huge genetic component. As KP pointed out, there are people who need meds to stay healthy and, as it turns out, we are both in that camp. And I know about "activation" from SSRIs because they made me absolutely whacko.

National health service? Again, I'm stumped. Our current system is rife with middlemen profits. When you see the middleman for orthopedic hardware at your hospital living in a mansion and driving a car a doctor can't afford, you know something is wrong.

Don't let people con you in to thinking the quality of medicine in the U.S. is inferior to other industrialized countries. It's not. Infant mortality rates are high when drug, alcohol, or tobacco abuse exist during pregnancy. Likewise, murder rates and unhealthy lifestyles contribute to our decreased longevity.

THE RICH ARABS STILL COME TO THE US FOR THEIR HEALTHCARE FOR GOOD REASON.

I have always been against the idea of a national health-care plan. I'm starting to reconsider. The current system is SO complex and has SO much special interest, it may have to be completely blown up and rebuilt. (Good luck getting that through congress).

I strongly recommend you go to the following URL and watch "Sick around the world"
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/view/

No country has it completely figured out yet. But, some are doing better than others.

A more accessible/understandable title would help get this noticed..

Ron Paul should be added as a tag for this one as he is a presidential candidate and his views, again, prove to be consistant.

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