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bobknight33
(Member Profile)
Hmmmmmmm…..
351 MT state Rep. Fred Anderson, a Great Falls Republican, violated mandatory reporting requirements as a high school principal, allowing a sexual predator to continue as a coach after students came forward. https://billingsgazette.com/news/state-and-regional/govt-and-politics/political-brawl-among-republicans-raises-accusations-around-miles-city-sex/artic
le_227bae9a-4268-51f3-8845-7672169a80c0.html
352 NJ Republican freeholder candidate Michael Silvestri has been accused of sexually harassing and assaulting a campaign worker. It’s a big mess with other GOP officials threatening her, etc. https://www.trentonian.com/news/lawrence-police-investigate-campaign-worker-s-sexual-assault-claim-against/article_3b7d1682-30c0-11e9-836f-979fa4508bc
8.html
353 GOP Mega-donor John Childs patronized a sex trafficking ring. Sleeping with sex workers is one thing. When women are forced by traffickers, that’s something else https://www.tcpalm.com/story/news/crime/indian-river-county/2019/02/22/billionaire-john-childs-charged-florida-human-trafficking-prostitution-ring/295
3948002/
354 LA Republican Congressional Aide Jerod Prunty arrested for pandering, possibly trafficking https://www.klfy.com/news/local/louisiana-republican-congressional-aide-arrested-on-pandering-charges/1789720097
355 Arizona Rep. David Stringer benefited from a plea deal that hid his arrest for child pornography https://tucson.com/news/local/arizona-rep-david-stringer-acknowledges-sex-offense-plea-agreement-years/article_1e38cb61-6a28-5e36-9b81-d5a312ca27c3.ht
ml
356 Steven Muñoz, Trump State Department hire & former Santorum campaign worker, accused of five sexual assaults https://www.propublica.org/article/trump-administration-hires-official-five-students-accused-sexual-assault
357 Morton Klein, far right head of Zionists of America, newly empowered by Trump has been accused of sexual assault and domestic violence. https://www.tabletmag.com/jewish-news-and-politics/280684/morton-klein-and-the-future-of-american-zionism
358 Cody Henson - R, NC, two-term state rep accused of harassment, cyberstalking, ignoring restraining order his wife got. https://newsgrowl.com/nc-state-rep-cody-henson-receives-criminal-summons-after-cyberstalking-complaint/
359 TN State House Speaker Glen Casada defends David Byrd, because he claims women who are really raped would move. https://www.tennessean.com/story/news/politics/2019/02/19/tennessee-house-speaker-defends-rep-david-byrd-accused-sexual-assault-if-i-was-raped-i-would
-move/2915021002/
360 Republican Judge John Russo, Jr. was suspended after blaming a rape victim for not closing her legs. https://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/437405-new-jersey-judge-faces-suspension-for-asking-rape-victim-if-she
361 Jacob Wohl attacks the credibility of people who have been assaulted by recruiting people to make false claims of assault against Robert Mueller and Pete Buttigieg https://www.thedailybeast.com/far-right-smear-merchants-jacob-wohl-and-jack-burkman-try-to-slime-pete-buttigieg-with-bogus-sex-assault-claim?ref=wrap
362 Jack Burkman attacks the credibility of people who have been assaulted by recruiting people to make false claims of assault against Robert Mueller and Pete Buttigieg https://www.thedailybeast.com/far-right-smear-merchants-jacob-wohl-and-jack-burkman-try-to-slime-pete-buttigieg-with-bogus-sex-assault-claim?ref=wrap
363 Hays County GOP Chair Bo Dresner arrested for sexual assault of a child over SEVEN years
364 Kentucky State Rep Robert Goforth (candidate for Governor) has been accused of sexual assault https://www.kentucky.com/news/politics-government/article224642800.html
365 Republican Sheriff Rene Rodriguez of Lincoln Co, Idaho - sexual assault, lewd conduct, and rape of a minor https://magicvalley.com/news/local/crime-and-courts/court-documents-say-lincoln-sheriff-sexually-abused-girl-for-years/article_cfbf591b-77a8-5f02-b10e
-1f9abf7f46cf.html
366 Former Republican Congressional candidate Daniel Edmonds, R, molested a child many times over the course of three years. https://www.newson6.com/story/39788517/former-congressional-candidate-charged-with-child-sex-abuse
367 New York Judge James P. McClusky ruled firmly in favor of rape, even rape of children by giving a man who pleaded guilty to raping a 14-year-old girl to no jail time, only probation. He was endorsed by the Republican, Independence and Conservative parties. https://www.newyorkupstate.com/northern-ny/2019/04/former-watertown-bus-drivers-admits-to-raping-teen-gets-no-jail-time.html
368 NJ GOP state Sen. Anthony Bucco-sexual harassment, getting women fired for ending relationship https://www.nj.com/news/2011/05/wharton_mayor_chegwidden_alleg_1.html
369 Republican Gov Arnold Schwarzenegger (CA) sexual harassment/groping https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/arnold-schwarzenegger-i-stepped-over-the-line-several-times-with-women
370 CT GOP Senate Candidate Augie Wolf - sexual harassment https://www.courant.com/politics/capitol-watch/hc-august-wolf-lawsuit-story.html
371 CA GOP state assemblyman Dante Acosta - sexual harassment https://santaclaritafree.com/gazette/news/acosta-accuser-resurfaces
372 SC GOP State Rep. Edward Southard - sexual harassment https://www.berkeleyobserver.com/2016/04/28/moncks-corner-lawmaker-steps-amid-sexual-harassment-allegations/
373 Former SD GOP state representative Gene Abdallah - sexual harassment
https://www.argusleader.com/story/news/politics/2018/01/16/abdallah-withdraws-board-after-report-sexual-harassment/1033935001/
374 TX GOP state Sen J. E. “Buster” Brown - sexual harassment
https://www.texastribune.org/1999/09/20/ten-little-nine-little-eight-little-lite-guvs/
375 Missouri Republican House Speaker John Diehl - sexual harassment https://www.stltoday.com/news/local/missouri-house-speaker-resigns-intern-breaks-silence/article_0f97c87f-dd66-5c1d-bf49-19ef3228ced1.html
12 yr. old Palestinian MC Abdul "Shouting At The Wall"
For my understanding, the general meaning of the word "Zionism" is vastly changed throughout the eras. And there isn't a homogeneous kind of Zionism anyway. What kind of "Zionist agenda" the people/government living in the land of "Israel/Palestine" in the 30-50s to today had in mind and pushing for is totally different. Let's be concerned with today's general definition of Zionism, as mostly defined by the Likud and the other far-right/Nationalist parties in today's Israel shall we?
Also, I can't imagine there are a whole lot of countries that would deny Israel's right-to-exist (like, physically, wholeheartedly want to wipe them of the face of the earth kind, NOT the expedient, political rhetorics for their own domestic consumption kind). And those that could really be crazy enough, like Iran, I constantly (naively?) felt the Ayatollahs would rather opt for silent, staus-quo relations than go to war with Israel (they must see the Ukraine invaison and see Russia/Putin isolation as a lesson, they can't afford to put themselves in the same position as Putin's in a Israel/Iran war. The Ayatollahs don't have even Iranian people standing behind them).
The good is that for Israel vs. the Arab countries, trust building is possible, but incredibly slow -- it only takes one wrong step to negate a mile of trust building -- but still, the past few years have seen some Arab countries opening up bilateral embassies with Israel along wiht increased trades & direct flights, etc.
The no good, very bad news of the statehood issues, daily IvP conflict, land grabs and from low-level militray incursions to the occasional missiles trading military operations, are happening far too often. Thus making hard-core Zionism, support of Hamas, the isolation of the Palestinian people & economy, etc. all the more severe. None of these are paths towards peace and/or creating the conditions for mutually agreeable settlement. All the flashpoints needs to be addressed in an even-handed way. But we just don't see balance in the media and/or the world political arena.
12 yr. old Palestinian MC Abdul "Shouting At The Wall"
@newtboy,
There's a danger here of having an actual nuanced discussion on Israel/Palestine happening here if we aren't careful...
I agree with your point of difference on illegal immigrants in the US largely not having a plan for 'independence' in their back pocket. The soft equivalence that the right wingers would point to though would be immigrant settling into small area such that they can setup a virtual community without ever needing to learn local languages and pushing hard to keep their 'own' values and way of life. I don't agree with the "Learn English" rednecks or the ones shouting how folks need to act American, but there is at least a soft parallel. virtually the only thing South Park has ever been censored on was depicting the prophet, and that 100% read as fear of violent retaliation, which isn't nothing.
I also think you hit the bigger point on how broken systems of immigration are. Particularly when domestic politics and the situation for legal immigration to refugees is grossly inadequate. I think America today though is just a much more mild example of it than the 30/40s in Palestine. For all the complaints one can level at Zionism, it's very hard to condemn them for encouraging mass emigration out of Europe. It's also clear that waiting on legal immigration routes out wasn't going to get people out fast enough. Thus I really look carefully at any anti-zionist position that includes condemning jewish 'illegal' immigration at the time. It treads dangerously close to saying they should have accepted the alternative, which was by and large remaining in Europe...
12 yr. old Palestinian MC Abdul "Shouting At The Wall"
Let me fix that for ya:
"The level of education and discernment of the average HUMAN in general is really depressing."
Israel and Palestine is particularly messy though, as so much power(money, violence and otherwise) is leveraged from both sides to ensure people choose a side, and choose it with no compromises allowed, purely villainizing the other and vindicating the 'right' team.
Anti-Zionism isn't anti-semitism, as you pointed out. Yet, overwhelmingly anti-zionism is also used as a code word for denying Israel's right to exist, equivalent to confederate flag marchers claiming they haven't any racist intentions...
The level of education and discernment of the average westerner in general is really depressing.
Ahmadinejad on Israel, England and America
Would you care to explain how or why that's relevant to Ahmadinejad and Ali Khamenei both routinely denying the holocaust occurred and insisting that they wish to see Israel erased from the map?
I've also had enough of racists spouting off on Zionism as though that makes it ok. If Zionism is pretty simply support for a Jewish state. I understand opposing the idea of a religiously founded state. What I don't understand is why SO MANY people seem entirely content defending the laundry list of Islamic states(Iran,Pakistan,Saudi Arabia to name a few) while insisting that even 1 Jewish state is inherently anathema and the center of all evil.
bcglorf is spouting the same old Zionist BS.
Israel has been the aggressor and involved in terrorism in the region since it was created by the UK at the Rothchild's bequest in 1917 (The Balfour Declaration).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balfour_Declaration
Casualties after they invaded Gaza ? 13 Israelis 1385 Palestinians
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casualties_of_the_Gaza_War
It's obvious Israel is a apartheid state, taking away rights from innocent non-Jews who have lived there longer than any Israeli, as most Israeli's are European immigrants.
Israel's reaction to Iran's new peace process is obvious once you realize they do not care about peace, they want land.
Why else would you have a racist as a 'Foreign affairs minister'?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avigdor_Lieberman
...who has threatened way worse on Palestine than anything I've heard from Iran.
Watch the video The New York Times didn't want you to see
YES IT IS!!.... dern an-ti seeemite!!
..and now with that Zionism bobby, what have we talked about??
No, it's fucking not.
Owen Jones deconstructs the Gaza situation on BBC's QT
Perhaps you've never studied the history of the region, but the reason I haven't addressed your questions is because I reject the central premise, which is the notion of a distinct "Palestinian" people. There is no such thing as a Palestinian people. There never has been any people in history going by that name, or demanding a country of their own. There is no Palestinian culture, artifacts..nothing The fact is, there is no actual difference between Palestinians, Jordanians, and Syrians. Before I go into it, you can hear it straight from the horses mouth:
"The Palestinian people does not exist. The creation of a Palestinian state is only a means for continuing our struggle against the state of Israel for our Arab unity. In reality today there is no difference between Jordanians, Palestinians, Syrians and Lebanese. Only for political and tactical reasons do we speak today about the existence of a Palestinian people, since Arab national interests demand that we posit the existence of a distinct "Palestinian people" to oppose Zionism. For tactical reasons, Jordan, which is a sovereign state with defined borders, cannot raise claims to Haifa and Jaffa, while as a Palestinian, I can undoubtedly demand Haifa, Jaffa, Beer-Sheva and Jerusalem. However, the moment we reclaim our right to all of Palestine, we will not wait even a minute to unite Palestine and Jordan."
Zuheir Mohsen leader of the Syria-controlled as-Sa'iqa faction of the Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO) between 1971 and 1979.
James Dorsey, "Wij zijn alleen Palestijn om politieke reden", Trouw, 31 March 1977.
http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Zuheir_Mohsen
They aren't struggling for "independence", they are waging all out war against the Jews. The "Palestinians" have been offered their own state many, many times, with the initial deal being something like 80 percent of the entire country. They rejected it and vowed to exterminate the Jews. They are not interested in negotiating because they want to wipe any Jewish presence in the region off of the map. They're also being funded and supplied by Arab nations all over the Middle East for this purpose. Why? Because Muslims are raised to hate Jews and this stems from the Qur'an. It probably goes back to when the Jews rejected Muhammad as a prophet.
Please research the history:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ZY8m0cm1oY&feature=related
Yes and no. But I have to get rid of your loaded terms and misleading juxtapositions. First, nobody here is a murderer. They are at war with Israel, and they killed people on the other side, just as Israel does to Palestinians.
Why Dave Chappelle Quit Illuminati
>> ^vaire2ube:
Hey dude, ask the Jews the same question. You're concerned about tourism... but don't mind Zionism and false birthrights?
You answered your own, really -- first and second generation after being stolen from a country... or, you know, being a human being... might lead you to having a "curiosity" which may be "satisfied" by "exploring" said curiousity.
Or you may be an un-curious "supposer", a theorist who asks "why" without attempting to really understand when the information is right under their own nose... you are employing the tactic of insinuating by asking... you seem to have an issue with "blacks".
maybe try googling your questions?
as a "first worlder" you have that luxury to erase your ignorance at the swipe of some keys. too hard? maybe you should ask why people ask stupid questions in 2012.
that said, lol @ whoever upvoted your comment. you should be shamed into answering your own questions, not supported for your racism.. oh, i mean, "false presumptions". Since you are an admitted "regular" white guy.. i assume you think with your dick and not your brain... im white but i can use google and open my mind to "possibilities"... so i dont think you're all that regular, unless by regular you mean ignorant.
I think you might want to go back and edit that post. It's really hard to read, your point is unclear and I think you meant to accuse @Sagemind (who said he was a regular white guy) instead of @wraith (who never said anything like that).
As to wriaths point, I kind of agree. You cannot lump all of Africa as one culture or ethnicity. That would be the equivalent of a caucasian american going to "europe" to find their roots.
Why Dave Chappelle Quit Illuminati
Hey dude, ask the Jews the same question. You're concerned about tourism... but don't mind Zionism and false birthrights?
You answered your own, really -- first and second generation after being stolen from a country... or, you know, being a human being... might lead you to having a "curiosity" which may be "satisfied" by "exploring" said curiousity.
Or you may be an un-curious "supposer", a theorist who asks "why" without attempting to really understand when the information is right under their own nose... you are employing the tactic of insinuating by asking... you seem to have an issue with "blacks".
maybe try googling your questions?
as a "first worlder" you have that luxury to erase your ignorance at the swipe of some keys. too hard? maybe you should ask why people ask stupid questions in 2012.
that said, lol @ whoever upvoted your comment. you should be shamed into answering your own questions, not supported for your racism.. oh, i mean, "false presumptions". Since you are an admitted "regular" white guy.. i assume you think with your dick and not your brain... im white but i can use google and open my mind to "possibilities"... so i dont think you're all that regular, unless by regular you mean ignorant.
>> ^wraith:
A question that always bothered me and that has almost nothing to do with this video: Why do so many African Americans think they have to go to Africa to find their roots? In Europe, in all countries except France, 99% of African people are really first or second generation immigrants from one of the dozens of Nations in Africa.
They have relatives living there.
I understand that.
African Americans have their roots as much in "Africa", as I have my roots in....I don't even know...Germany? France? Russia? Hungary?
I don't even know where my ancestors lived three hundred years ago.
And I don't care.
I don't get it.
Hebron: border police officer kicks a palestinian child
Bull fucking major shit, dude... what could the kid have been doing, except reacting to growing up in a situation where armed men are waiting to kick you? Maybe he was causing a little trouble, maybe some graffiti... so lets turn him into a suicide bomber and then take his parents land and claim to know nothing about the origin of the threat? Nothing about this scene is acceptable. Do you accept this behavior from a US soldier against any child?? Then why the military that we almost exclusively fund?
and no one can say anything about the emperor being naked without being anti-Semitic, which is itself a misappropriated term which does not mean Jewish or Israeli but refers to language origins. Arabs are Semitic, too.
This is a systematic problem, and the Israeli's immediate "they'd do it to us" excuse that makes nearly everyone non-arab turn a blind eye, is quite reminiscent of the governmental situation which ultimately led to the creation of "their" state. You can't spell Nazi or Zionism without a "Z". Different means to the same end: Racial purity of the chosen people.
How fucking twisted
Pretty obvious letting people just make up rules based on no logic leaves no room for diplomacy. None. Why bother when you can shoot and kick your way to the promised land? The whole middle east should be a DMZ, no one there is doing anything with weapons defensively.
Orthodox Jews Serenade Sabbath Workers
The claim for Arabs right to the land is stronger because they did not leave the area (as a group). They are also not as diluted genetically from their original ethnicity(s) (shared with Jews, who are of multiple ethnicities, but mainly of Arab decent).
Zionism is the support of the Jewish state, not necessarily the support for it's expansion (although that support is strong in Israel). That means all Israelites are Zionists, unless they are traitors to their own country and are working to end the Jewish state, there aren't many if any of those people in Israel, they would be stoned to death. I'm not sure what definition of Zionist you are working with, it must be different from mine. Not all Zionists are expansionists, and there is nothing in the word that requires poor treatment of others.
To answer Boise_Lib: Because these children are required to serve in the army, actively supporting the state, they are Zionist, whether by choice or by birth. They have the right to leave AFTER their service, or before if their parents leave Israel, so like any child, they are at the whim of their parents and forced into their belief system whether they believe in it or not. This means I was partially wrong in my statement and I will revise it..., all adult Israelis are there 100% by choice.
I love the 'you are just wrong, I can't be bothered to tell you why' mindset. It really doesn't help your argument or help sway my ideas, it gives the impression that you really don't have anything to point at as 'wrong' you just don't like what you read. If you really can point out any inaccuracies I would like to know so I can learn or clarify, but I think you are simply reading in what you want to argue against.
I'm flabbergasted by your idea that (to paraphrase) 'we only send $2.5 BILLION a year, that's not much'. It shows clearly that you aren't being logical or reasonable in the least. If we are going broke fast (and we are), why should we be sending 2.5 BILLION to ANYONE? Especially if your contention, that it isn't a large part of their budget and they don't need it is correct, why bother sending them a dime? There are certainly others we could send that money to and do FAR more good, like Africa.
Anti-Zionism might help, anti-Semitism probably not so much. Pro-Zionism is certainly hurting things by supporting one sides expansion while ignoring the atrocities that causes the Palestinians. As I previously wrote, anti-Semitism often is a by product of anti-Zionism, where the anger at the Zionists is misapplied to only and to all Jews. Therefore, Zionism creates anti-Semitism, rightly or wrongly. I am not an anti-Semite, I am an anti-Zionist...being human, sometimes the two are confused or convergent but not intentionally on my part.
The BEST solution in my eyes is a diplomatic one that stops the expansion and solidifies borders, and one that gets us OUT of the conflict as a nation (if the nutjob born agains want to send their own money, that's their business). I don't see that as the ONLY solution, and obviously neither does Israel, since they are not negotiating in any serious way, and instead continue to expand and provoke, expand and provoke. The Palestinians on the other hand have been pushing for solidified borders for decades and continuously agree to them only to have "settlers" (invaders) move into the land as soon as the treaty is signed. This gives them the moral high ground to me, but does not mean we should be involved.>> ^mxxcon:
>> ^newtboy:
Yeah sure, we're all 'Africans', but that designation intentionally ignores the evolution of the species and differentiation since the second great migration, (the first was the aborigines, genetically different from the second wave) and so intentionally ignores 'ethnicity' as a concept.
True, the scattering of the 'Jews' (ethnic term intended here) has changed them from the other 'Arabs' they originally were to the mixed ethnicity they are now, making them slightly different from the Arabs of the region today. Shouldn't the fact that their ethnicity has been diluted also dilute their claim to their ancestral lands (as if such a claim should hold water anyway, if your ancestors lost the land, it's lost, right)?
anti-Semitism is what results from the miss-application of anti-Zionism in many cases (including for me sometimes). For me, it is NEVER an ethnic issue, always a religolitical (religious/political)issue that causes the dislike of the group.
All Israelis are Zionists by definition and action, I suppose this is not true for ALL Jews (of either definition) but is the public position of their 'church' and their ethnic leadership as well. I feel fairly safe saying it's the position held by nearly all Orthodox Jews, but that might be wrong, I don't know many. That makes them a completely different animal from the Chinese, where many in China actively don't support their government or even their system of government, but are forced to stay in China and work for it. No Israeli is forced to live in Israel, it's 100% by choice.
I do understand that in large part, the 'fundamentalist Christians' (and also American Jewish Zionists) are to blame for us funding and supporting Israel, I hope I misread and you don't think they foot the bill too, we all do.
Can we agree that religious justifications for ANY otherwise bad act are wrong, and reinforce the idea that religion itself is wrong and bad?>> ^hpqp:
@newtboy
If we go back far enough, we are all Africans; ethnic distinctions happen to take the history of peoples' migrations into account. Yes, ethnic Jews are Arabs (or vice-versa) just like most Australians, Americans and Canadians are Europeans, except instead of colonisation it is the Jewish diaspora that is the cause for their break from their "land of origins".
Antisemitism is racism against Jews (ethnic group), whether they be religious or not. I fully disagree with Israel's politics and their funding by Americans (speaking of which, you do know, I hope, that they are above all funded/supported by fundie evangelicals, don't you?) for the purpose of colonisation, but to lump all (ethnic) Jews/Israelis (that's a nationality btw) together saying that they support this is about as ridiculous as saying that all Chinese in China and around the world support the communist government in China just because they're Chinese.
That being said, I agree entirely that the religious justifications over land - from both sides btw - is ridiculous and dangerous. "My prophet died here so it's my land!" Ugh.
Also very broad and inaccurate generalizations.
You can read http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_ethnic_divisions for a pretty detailed explanation.
Dilution of ethnicity and claim of their ancestral lands can just as easily apply to 'Arabs' there.
And just like Jews, "Arabs" is a general term for various ethnic and religious groups.
So whose land it is is a very subjective topic of how far back in history you want to go.
Not all Israelis are Zionists. The word Zionist have many various meanings and definitions, but you seem to have a totally wrong understanding of what it is. There's a sizable portion of Israel Jew's population that is against those settlements and treatment of (to call it broadly) non-Jewish populace.
There are also many other wrong assumptions and generalizations in your post.(right now I'm too tired after work to elaborate on them all).
Needless to say the whole Israeli conflict is a very complex and messy situation. There are guilty parties on both sides. Cutting funding/aid to either side will not move things for the better. Over the last 10 years US aid to Israel was about ~$2.5billion/year. That is about 1% of Israel's $217billion GDP economy. While sizable, cutting that aid will not be a significant hindrance.
External boycotts, protests and especially antisemitism will not help things either. That will only make them more stubborn and have justification for potential threat to their sovereignty and survival. The only real solution is a diplomatic approach to change governments' policies.
Orthodox Jews Serenade Sabbath Workers
>> ^newtboy:
Yeah sure, we're all 'Africans', but that designation intentionally ignores the evolution of the species and differentiation since the second great migration, (the first was the aborigines, genetically different from the second wave) and so intentionally ignores 'ethnicity' as a concept.
True, the scattering of the 'Jews' (ethnic term intended here) has changed them from the other 'Arabs' they originally were to the mixed ethnicity they are now, making them slightly different from the Arabs of the region today. Shouldn't the fact that their ethnicity has been diluted also dilute their claim to their ancestral lands (as if such a claim should hold water anyway, if your ancestors lost the land, it's lost, right)?
anti-Semitism is what results from the miss-application of anti-Zionism in many cases (including for me sometimes). For me, it is NEVER an ethnic issue, always a religolitical (religious/political)issue that causes the dislike of the group.
All Israelis are Zionists by definition and action, I suppose this is not true for ALL Jews (of either definition) but is the public position of their 'church' and their ethnic leadership as well. I feel fairly safe saying it's the position held by nearly all Orthodox Jews, but that might be wrong, I don't know many. That makes them a completely different animal from the Chinese, where many in China actively don't support their government or even their system of government, but are forced to stay in China and work for it. No Israeli is forced to live in Israel, it's 100% by choice.
I do understand that in large part, the 'fundamentalist Christians' (and also American Jewish Zionists) are to blame for us funding and supporting Israel, I hope I misread and you don't think they foot the bill too, we all do.
Can we agree that religious justifications for ANY otherwise bad act are wrong, and reinforce the idea that religion itself is wrong and bad?>> ^hpqp:
@newtboy
If we go back far enough, we are all Africans; ethnic distinctions happen to take the history of peoples' migrations into account. Yes, ethnic Jews are Arabs (or vice-versa) just like most Australians, Americans and Canadians are Europeans, except instead of colonisation it is the Jewish diaspora that is the cause for their break from their "land of origins".
Antisemitism is racism against Jews (ethnic group), whether they be religious or not. I fully disagree with Israel's politics and their funding by Americans (speaking of which, you do know, I hope, that they are above all funded/supported by fundie evangelicals, don't you?) for the purpose of colonisation, but to lump all (ethnic) Jews/Israelis (that's a nationality btw) together saying that they support this is about as ridiculous as saying that all Chinese in China and around the world support the communist government in China just because they're Chinese.
That being said, I agree entirely that the religious justifications over land - from both sides btw - is ridiculous and dangerous. "My prophet died here so it's my land!" Ugh.
Also very broad and inaccurate generalizations.
You can read http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_ethnic_divisions for a pretty detailed explanation.
Dilution of ethnicity and claim of their ancestral lands can just as easily apply to 'Arabs' there.
And just like Jews, "Arabs" is a general term for various ethnic and religious groups.
So whose land it is is a very subjective topic of how far back in history you want to go.
Not all Israelis are Zionists. The word Zionist have many various meanings and definitions, but you seem to have a totally wrong understanding of what it is. There's a sizable portion of Israel Jew's population that is against those settlements and treatment of (to call it broadly) non-Jewish populace.
There are also many other wrong assumptions and generalizations in your post.(right now I'm too tired after work to elaborate on them all).
Needless to say the whole Israeli conflict is a very complex and messy situation. There are guilty parties on both sides. Cutting funding/aid to either side will not move things for the better. Over the last 10 years US aid to Israel was about ~$2.5billion/year. That is about 1% of Israel's $217billion GDP economy. While sizable, cutting that aid will not be a significant hindrance.
External boycotts, protests and especially antisemitism will not help things either. That will only make them more stubborn and have justification for potential threat to their sovereignty and survival. The only real solution is a diplomatic approach to change governments' policies.
Orthodox Jews Serenade Sabbath Workers
Yeah sure, we're all 'Africans', but that designation intentionally ignores the evolution of the species and differentiation since the second great migration, (the first was the aborigines, genetically different from the second wave) and so intentionally ignores 'ethnicity' as a concept.
True, the scattering of the 'Jews' (ethnic term intended here) has changed them from the other 'Arabs' they originally were to the mixed ethnicity they are now, making them slightly different from the Arabs of the region today. Shouldn't the fact that their ethnicity has been diluted also dilute their claim to their ancestral lands (as if such a claim should hold water anyway, if your ancestors lost the land, it's lost, right)?
anti-Semitism is what results from the miss-application of anti-Zionism in many cases (including for me sometimes). For me, it is NEVER an ethnic issue, always a religolitical (religious/political)issue that causes the dislike of the group.
All Israelis are Zionists by definition and action, I suppose this is not true for ALL Jews (of either definition) but is the public position of their 'church' and their ethnic leadership as well. I feel fairly safe saying it's the position held by nearly all Orthodox Jews, but that might be wrong, I don't know many. That makes them a completely different animal from the Chinese, where many in China actively don't support their government or even their system of government, but are forced to stay in China and work for it. No Israeli is forced to live in Israel, it's 100% by choice.
I do understand that in large part, the 'fundamentalist Christians' (and also American Jewish Zionists) are to blame for us funding and supporting Israel, I hope I misread and you don't think they foot the bill too, we all do.
Can we agree that religious justifications for ANY otherwise bad act are wrong, and reinforce the idea that religion itself is wrong and bad?>> ^hpqp:
@newtboy
If we go back far enough, we are all Africans; ethnic distinctions happen to take the history of peoples' migrations into account. Yes, ethnic Jews are Arabs (or vice-versa) just like most Australians, Americans and Canadians are Europeans, except instead of colonisation it is the Jewish diaspora that is the cause for their break from their "land of origins".
Antisemitism is racism against Jews (ethnic group), whether they be religious or not. I fully disagree with Israel's politics and their funding by Americans (speaking of which, you do know, I hope, that they are above all funded/supported by fundie evangelicals, don't you?) for the purpose of colonisation, but to lump all (ethnic) Jews/Israelis (that's a nationality btw) together saying that they support this is about as ridiculous as saying that all Chinese in China and around the world support the communist government in China just because they're Chinese.
That being said, I agree entirely that the religious justifications over land - from both sides btw - is ridiculous and dangerous. "My prophet died here so it's my land!" Ugh.
Yogi
(Member Profile)
Do you have any links or titles you could recommend?
(P.S. congrats on your 2 year aniversary)
In reply to this comment by Yogi:
>> ^Ti_Moth:
It would be hard to argue that zionism is a force for good in this world.
If you read the history of Zionism it was once. Even Chomsky was a youth Zionist leader, but somewhere it went from having a place for the Jews to TAKING other peoples homes and land for the Jews.
Truth-Telling In Israel Is Very Very Unpopular
>> ^Ti_Moth:
It would be hard to argue that zionism is a force for good in this world.
If you read the history of Zionism it was once. Even Chomsky was a youth Zionist leader, but somewhere it went from having a place for the Jews to TAKING other peoples homes and land for the Jews.