Personally, I haven't had any trouble with the police. If I've ever been stopped by an officer for a traffic violation, I have *mostly* been treated politely, and have even been cut a few breaks.

That being said, I know at least 15 people who have been abused by the police. The abuse ranges from harassment to assault to even falsifying evidence. A friend of mine was beaten to a pulp and had pepper spray rubbed in his eyes with someones thumbs simply because he refused to comply with an order to remove his pants.

Trying to generalize every cop is stupid, but it's also stupid to ignore the abuse of power which seems to happen in every police department across the country. Personally, I think it is reaching epidemic proportions. You have these poorly trained, uneducated, and completely immature personalities running around town, armed to the teeth, just completely ego tripping.

There is basically no oversight, because cop loyalty is almost like mafia loyalty; a kind of brotherhood where the righteousness of defending the law becomes a license to do whatever you want, as how could a defender of the law be wrong about anything? Of course they always have the best of intentions. The only time any action is taken is when something was caught on film like this video, and there is a public outcry.

You have the reports of widespread racism in the bigger cities, which is really one of the biggest reasons for the distrust blacks have for white culture. You have the continuing militarization of the police where no force is quite brute enough, and no civil liberties go unviolated. You have things like the drug war or even speeding tickets which are perpetuated in the name of money and money alone, where cops are highly motivated to ruin your life to secure another dollar for the department.

Clearly there are a lot of problems here. Almost everyone I know has either been abused by the police, or know someone that has, and these are decent and moral people I am referring to. I think that saying "Fuck the Police" is justifiable these days. Don't get me wrong, I know cops do a lot of good.. we just can't simply have this blind, pseudo-patriotism where because cops are the defenders of freedom that they should get a free pass for everything. Why? Because that is exactly the attitude which allows this corruption to go on in the first place.

Bottom line: No one should have that kind of power without strenuous oversight and complete accountability.

I didn't mean to upvote that comment.

>> ^dgandhi:
> ^MarineGunrock:
>
I already sited my personal experience, not media reports or vids on the net. I have seen cops do some good, and I have seen them, with my own eyes, do lots of fucked up shit.

That isn't a citation. That's you giving me a personal account. A citation is a study conducted over a widespread area over a period of time. I don't want some half-ass media report or a YouTube video - that won't show anything. Just because you've had more bad run-ins with cops than good doesn't mean the cops in your area are bad. For all I know, you're a little punk that thinks he should be able to do whatever he wants without "the man" getting on your back and you yourself are incredibly disrespectful to them the instant they show up. You could aslo be a very upstanding citizen, but I just don't know.


You mean to tell me that people everywhere would obey traffic signs and speed limits if there was no chance of them getting a speeding ticket - just out of their good nature?

I do, I fail to see the absurdity of being responsible. I can not tell you how many times I have had people ask me "you're an anarchist, why are you driving the speed limit?". The answer is simple I have not externalized my responsibility to some state-sanctioned father figure. I am able to deduce, with out much assistance, that driving a ton off steel down a tarmac byway at more then 10mph is fucking dangerous, and since everybody knows the posted rules, it's safest to abide by them, since being predictable in a dangerous situation is safer then the alternative.


No one ever claimed that being responsible was absurd. Those are your words, not mine. But it's funny how you say we should follow the rules since they're already there. How on Earth does that coincide with being an anarchist?

I am not moved by your appeal to fear, since your theoretical situations don't reflect my lived experience. The rationals for policing, or the use of violence to create peace in general, is an absurd fair story. I find it rather annoying that so many seem to believe something which is so absurd. I stand unconvinced of your position. As the system of policing now stands, fuck it, and by extension them, especially the schmuck in the vid, and anyone who enables him.


No one ever said a well trained police force needs to be violent, and I am not making an appeal of fear.
I think maybe your perspectives would radically shift were you to ever live in a society not governed by anyone and policed by none.

"I fail to see the absurdity of being responsible"

I think the absurdity is suggesting that all people will be responsible. Please correct me if I'm wrong, but you seem to be taking a humanistic stance, in suggesting that people are basically good. Given the chance, free of outside influences such as government, religion, or other social forces, people will do what is good.

Personally I don't believe that is the case. Selfishness, impulsiveness, and irresponsibility are all very human traits, I also think the exact opposite of those things are as well. Some people are more driven to be socially responsible, and others more self serving. If there were no law enforcement, you'd have a lot of people trying to be responsible and you'd have a lot of people who would do whatever they pleased.

Speeding was mentioned, I too attempt to obey the speed limits, not because I'm afraid I'll get caught if I don't, but I understand doing so helps create a measure of safety for myself and the others I share the road with. I've known plenty of people who just don't care, they don't think they'll get caught, and they don't think they're causing a hazard to themselves or other and/or don't care that they are. They're only interested in getting where they're going faster. I've also known some of those irresponsible people who have stopped speeding. Not because they realize what a danger they've been, but because they've racked up hundreds of dollars in speeding tickets.

I guess I just don't buy that everything would be A-OK if there was no law enforcement. Actually I think it would be the exact opposite. As a matter of fact I'd say there are plenty of instances historical and current where there was a lack of law and atrocious things happened. Yes there are plenty of instances current and historical where there was law and atrocious things happened, but that's exactly my point. No matter what you can have bad things happen. Comparatively we're probably better off than a lot of countries, we also don't have it as good some countries. I think we should be striving to improve our law enforcement rather than calling for its removal.

All that said, I think it would be great if there was no need for law enforcement or even government, but I think that's an unrealistic ideal. There would have to be a huge 100% universal social paradigm shift, and that just isn't going to happen, not any time within the next several hundred or thousand years at least. If it happens it'll be a (mostly) slow progression.

> ^MarineGunrock:
> I'd like you to cite ANYTHING that says police often do more harm than good.

I already sited my personal experience, not media reports or vids on the net. I have seen cops do some good, and I have seen them, with my own eyes, do lots of fucked up shit.

You mean to tell me that people everywhere would obey traffic signs and speed limits if there was no chance of them getting a speeding ticket - just out of their good nature?

I do, I fail to see the absurdity of being responsible. I can not tell you how many times I have had people ask me "you're an anarchist, why are you driving the speed limit?". The answer is simple I have not externalized my responsibility to some state-sanctioned father figure. I am able to deduce, with out much assistance, that driving a ton off steel down a tarmac byway at more then 10mph is fucking dangerous, and since everybody knows the posted rules, it's safest to abide by them, since being predictable in a dangerous situation is safer then the alternative.

I don't think so. Most people don't follow them anyway.

I would argue that is a consequence of punishment based "morals", which is sad, but hardly an argument in favor of the practice.

Who would you call when someone decided to rob your house or they smashed your car and drove off, because there were no police to show up and issue them a ticket?
You say "Fuck the police" now, but I guarantee you that your attitude would be radically different were you to ever need them.

I have had many things stolen, I have been assaulted a number of times (sometimes by cops) I can tell you that in none of the theoretical cases when cops are supposed to be of use have they been any better then an annoyance, and sometimes far worse. I have dealt with these thefts and assaults by myself, because their was nobody else who was going to do it, that will be true for probably about 98% of all victims of crime, because we don't have a cop stationed at every corner, and I'm glad for that fact.

I'm not saying that society has no place for people who professionally enforce the law, as long as those people obey the same law without exception. We don't have that in the US, and probably never will.

I am not moved by your appeal to fear, since your theoretical situations don't reflect my lived experience. The rationals for policing, or the use of violence to create peace in general, is an absurd fair story. I find it rather annoying that so many seem to believe something which is so absurd. I stand unconvinced of your position. As the system of policing now stands, fuck it, and by extension them, especially the schmuck in the vid, and anyone who enables him.

>> ^dgandhi:
Fuck the Police.
The police often do more harm then good. All the high speed chase and vice squad crap where cop break the law to "stop crime" is more dangerous then useful.
Peace and order are not a result of policing, they are a result of basic human decency. Sometimes police will step in to stop some anti-social behavior, and sometimes they will commit it. I have seen the latter (in real life) more then the former, except in Canada where the proportion was reversed. The mounties still abuse their power as a matter of practice(they even pulled a gun on me), but they are more polite about it.
If we could make the cops an unprivileged class who are held to the highest ideal of the law, and not given special privilege and effective immunity from criminal prosecution, then I will change my tune. Until then Fuck the Police AS A CLASS.


I'd like you to cite ANYTHING that says police often do more harm than good. I'll say it again: You don't hear about a cop doing his job properly because it's not riveting news/entertaining. You hear about him assaulting someone because it IS news/entertaining.
You mean to tell me that people everywhere would obey traffic signs and speed limits if there was no chance of them getting a speeding ticket - just out of their good nature? I don't think so. Most people don't follow them anyway.

Who would you call when someone decided to rob your house or they smashed your car and drove off, because there were no police to show up and issue them a ticket?

You say "Fuck the police" now, but I guarantee you that your attitude would be radically different were you to ever need them.

This cop tasers someone over a speeding ticket for going about 55 on a straight highway in the middle of a desert with no construction in sight (in a bogus 40 zone that probably only exists for speed traps). The cop started getting ready to pull him over before he even crossed the 40 sign. Then when the driver refused to sign the citation without knowing how fast the cop thinks he was going, the driver was placed under arrest and tasered. This cop should be fired and treated for mental illness, but the Utah Highway Patrol ruled that he "acted reasonably". Fuck the Utah Highway Patrol. This cop seems to think that obedience is the most important thing, and that makes him a fascist.

Your Innocence Is No Protection:
http://www.harrybrowne.org/articles/InnocenceNoProtection.htm
CNN interview:
http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/us/2007/11/23/intv.tasered.speeder.speaks.cnn

"But the next minute or next day or next month it could have been. We are talking criminals here. Since when do they deserve any rights at all? They're human? No. They're animals. When they turn their backs on the law the law should turn its back on them."

woah, now. They stole a bag of valuables and would have made the robbery-victims feel less safe in their own home... its not like they kidnapped a child, or murdered an elderly couple, or stole thousands of people's pensions ENRON-style.

I got a speeding ticket a few months back; should the cop have just pulled me over, told me to dig my own grave and offed me right there? or would other drivers have been in the right to aim a gun out their car window as I passed them and tried to shoot out my tires if I were speeding?

Big BIG $$$ for Jared.

Is one of the options for refusing to sign a speeding ticket getting shot?

This is an unjustified title for the video.
How about "Dispute a speeding ticket, get tasered!"

I mean, the cop tasers the guy and escalates the situation. Maybe the guy hasn't received a speeding ticket before and find out you're supposed to sign, (I mean who signs for a ticket anyway?) but the cop immediately becomes confrontational and had the taser out ready when the guy got out, (which was because the cop asked him to).

Girl: "The first thing you did was whip out your taser gun"
Cop: "uh uh - that's because he looked like he was leaving."

And then the cop does a search of the car. Was the search justified?

The cop was missing tact, and was keeping his ego from being bruised. I don't expect the driver guy to be the perfect citizen either, but Cops have a responsibility to serve. This cop wanted this driver to get served.

I agree with Fedquip, if you couldn't tell.

yeah, he left his radar detector on, detecting 'k-band' wavelengths or whatever.

I questioned a cop's judgment once for pulling me over... never again! Know what they can and can't do, but outside of that its "yes sir, no sir, sorry sir, thank you sir, have a good night sir". No chit-chat, no discussion and debate.

Its a tough job that I wouldn't want... never give your garbage man a hard time and never give cops a hard time.

Oh, and as a final note, I've met more than a few cops who were great guys. The last cop that gave me a harsh speeding ticket was a good guy, all business, no BS.

I'm not a criminal yet I don't like most law enforcement either. If you never had to deal with the arrogance, disrespect and down right lying that someone who thinks they have a bit of power over you try to enforce then you can continue with your happy pictures of law enforcement that are out there to "protect us". Ever get a speeding ticket in a speed trap where the speed limit on a main street suddenly turns from 45 to 25 and they are sitting at the line busting people doing 30...wow, what saviors they are, and a lot of good they do the community. yes, please give me more law enforcement, you know the type that has a chip on his or her shoulder because they were picked on in school or something. And i did find the video rather funny, there is a reason they tell you not to drive through flooded streets.

When I am made king, you will lose your license on 3rd speeding offense >= 10mph over. Plus you will lose your license for having a hand to your ear with a cell phone. Plus you will lose your license for having your stupid miniature dog on your lap leaning out the driver window. I hope it becomes a federal offense to drive with one hand so you can chat on your #%@%!@ phone. Entrapment my ass on these speeding tickets. Safety is rarely first with the drivers I see. Alternatively it would be fun if people got pulled over for talking on their cell phones, and it wasnt really a ticket but led to $100 per month increase on car insurance for each offense. And can someone get these !%!%@ kids out of my yard!

Well. depends if running a yellow light is considered a crime.

You would most likely uses this for the automatic red light cameras or the automatic speeding tickets. In my mind its not a crime if a cop isn't there to issue a ticket.