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>> ^Mcboinkens:

You're comparing apples and oranges. One word meant a bunch of sticks, the other was originally a racist term. One was converted into a hateful term, one has always been.

Nigger was not originally derogatory. It started as negar, then neggar. It was a variant on negro and, in the US, meant the same thing: a black-skinned person, generally from Africa. In the UK it also included Indians.

It became a racial insult because of how and when it was used.

So, yeah, @Tokoki is, in fact, comparing apples to apples.

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>> ^Mcboinkens:
>> ^Tokoki:
So, you want to call african-americans "nigger" straight to their face?
>> ^Mcboinkens:
And I'm fine with not using the word faggot as an insult as long as homosexuals are fine with me calling them faggots straight to their face. If you don't want a word to evolve and lose its original meaning that's fine, but then you better be ready to start facing the word in its original meaning.


You're comparing apples and oranges. One word meant a bunch of sticks, the other was originally a racist term. One was converted into a hateful term, one has always been. If you take out the evolved context of the word faggot it no longer holds any harm, hence why you should be able to say it to anyone. The word you listed however, has always had racist roots and therefore is an entirely different kind of word. I see what you're trying to say, though. I'm just pointing out that people are becoming way to sensitive to WORDS. Pretty soon we arn't going to be able to call anyone fat, obese, stupid, short, or tall. Instead it will just be "above average body mass" or some other sensitive term. When does it stop? If someone calls me white trash I really couldn't care less about it. It means the other person is either insensitive, jealous, or I've done something to anger them. In any case, I realize it's just a word and move on.
Basically here is my point: What should we call gay people? Homosexuals, gays, faggots? What makes the word faggot worse than homosexual? Connotation. What happens when we stop using the word gay and faggot? Those connotations get shifted onto the word homosexual. Then what? We will need to come up with another word. There will always be jerks and insensitive fools that will use words to hurt people, it's human nature.
I stand by my point earlier in my last post. If we stop using faggot as an insult, then is goes back to simply meaning homosexual, in which case there should be no problem describing someone who is ACTUALLY a homosexual as a faggot. It seems like you misinterpreted what I said as I would call them faggots to their face to mock them, that wouldn't be the case. It would just be another word to describe their lifestyle.


It's not apples to oranges. The bundle of sticks definition is correct, however, the way homosexuals got the name is because they used to use gays as kindling for fire. That's right...they used to burn gay people and treat them as nothing other than fire wood

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i'm a too often user of the r-word. i also just started a class on disablities and society. one of the articles i had to read today was about the r-word as hate speech. I have a nephew with profound developmental delays and my entire families over use of the word "retarded" enrages my sister. we dismiss this with thoughts like "jesus christ jules, we're not talking about ryan chill the fuck out". i might feel like an asshole now. i kind of feel like all the times i've called my brother with no developmental delays a "retard", its kind of as if i had just called him a "nigger". since i would never call him one, i shouldn't be calling him the other.

i cant link the article because it only exists inside my little classroom portal thing, but here is are some excerpts.

WHAT IS HATE SPEECH?
Hate speech occurs when a majority group freely makes jokes about a minority group including
negative stereotypes and negative images, not just language. It is commonly seen as harmless by the
majority, but it sets the stage for more severe outlets for prejudice, harm and abuse.

PEOPLE WITH DEVELOPMENTAL AND INTELLECTUAL DISABILITIES ARE AT GREATER RISK OF
VIOLENCE.
- 1 in 3 children with disabilities are victims of some form of abuse, sexual abuse, or neglect.
(Sullivan & Knutson, 2000).
- Individuals with developmental disabilities are 4 to 10 more times more likely to be victims of a
crime than people without disabilities (Sobsey, et al., 1995).
- Children with developmental disabilities are at twice the risk of physical and sexual abuse
compared to children without disabilities (Crosse et. al., 1993).

PEOPLE WITH DEVELOPMENTAL AND INTELLECTUAL DISABILITIES ARE DISENFRANCHISED
FROM JUSTICE.
- Many people with intellectual disabilities are not able to articulate the abuse they’ve sustained.
- Many victims with intellectual disabilities are not perceived as credible witnesses.
- Abuse often occurs as part of name calling, bullying, hazing, or other targeted attacks based on
disability status.

THIS IS A HATE CRIME.
ENDING THE USE OF THE R-WORD IS MORE THAN A “POLITICALLY CORRECT” NOTION.
- “Retard” and “retarded” are derogatory and dehumanizing terms– on par with the N-word when
used to describe African Americans, and various hateful terms used to describe members of the
Jewish, gay and lesbian and other minority communities.
- Self-advocates with intellectual disability have clearly stated that negative language leads to
harmful action, discrimination, abuse, negative stereotypes, disenfranchisement, and violence.

SHOULDN’T PEOPLE WITH INTELLECTUAL DISABILITIES JUST LIGHTEN UP? IT’S A JOKE!
- NO! People with intellectual disabilities have a history of institutionalization, genocide, forced
sterilization, segregation, and being regarded as ‘less than human.’
- More than any other group, they experience record unemployment, significant physical, mental
and sexual abuse, and limited rights.
- This discrimination and victimization continues, in large part, due to antiquated, discriminatory
portrayals in the media and pervasive prejudice.

the only similarity is the type of angry, no-argument, shout down, shutdown type speech that the words can be used.

what i mean is that in, for example, these "shout down" attempts by either side of the political spectrum on such issues now as medicare reform, before that the war on terror debate, or any argument between 2 people when at least one of those people just wants to spew hateful terms to frustrate their opponent.

that is where these terms come into play with similar usage. many people are so dim-witted and have such poor debate skills that when they begin to feel outmatched in an argument, they go to the most hateful and outrageous type of speech they can muster to turn their insecurity back on the other side.

now that Obama defenders have become so visibly agitated by the term "socialist" they have given the word power to the criticizers. coupled with hostile usage, this is how all words obtain their venom.