Not by half.
His religious beliefs may be nearly as insane, but Palin had every intention of making her insane hypocritical beliefs the law of the land, Romney doesn't. Also, I don't recall Romney walking out 1/2 way through a job he was elected for to try to be elected to another job, do you? I also don't recall him using his religion as a cudgle to abuse and deride his political enemies, then conveniently forgetting them when he and his family fail to live up to the same standards.

I respect McCain's service, valor, and civility, but I also blame McCain for making bat shit crazy candidates acceptable to the far right. IMO, the party that ate him alive was no longer his party, it was the Trump party, which bears no resemblance to the Republican party of pre 2016. They wouldn't accept religious-nut-writhing-on-the-ground-chanting Sarah Palin. Today they would worship her as the most intelligent woman in America if Trump said they should.

@bobknight33 You are an asshole. Like others have said, Mitt isn't someone I agree with but he seems to be an honest person when it counts.

John McCain was someone who I loathed mostly for picking that religious-nut-writhing-on-the-ground-chanting Sarah Palin. Genuine policy disagreements and VP pick aside though, he was a patriotic American and highlights just what a traitor this president and his supporters are to this country in comparison.

That said, he spent 5 years being tortured in Vietnam rather than leaving immediately because he refused to leave without his fellow American captors.

John McCain was and remains an honorable person and a patriotic American who cared about his own.

Here's a detailed account https://www.usnews.com/news/articles/2008/01/28/john-mccain-prisoner-of-war-a-first-person-account


"What they wanted, of course, was to send me home at the same time that my father took over as commander in the Pacific. This would have made them look very humane in releasing the injured son of a top U. S. officer. It would also have given them a great lever against my fellow prisoners, because the North Vietnamese were always putting this "class" business on us. They could have said to the others "Look, you poor devils, the son of the man who is running the war has gone home and left you here. No one cares about you ordinary fellows." I was determined at all times to prevent any exploitation of my father and my family.

There was another consideration for me. Even though I was told I would not have to sign any statements or confessions before I went home, I didn't believe them. They would have got me right up to that airplane and said, "Now just sign this little statement." At that point, I doubt that I could have resisted, even though I felt very strong at the time.

But the primary thing I considered was that I had no right to go ahead of men like Alvarez, who had been there three years before I "got killed"—that's what we say instead of "before I got shot down," because in a way becoming a prisoner in North Vietnam was like being killed."


Don't ever talk about him again you fucking traitor.

Isn't that exactly what Trump said, that the investigation of him was illegal because Democrats were involved, making it partisan? That since what he claimed was the impetus (or as he says, the oranges) for the investigation was an imperfect dossier the whole thing was illegal?
The impetus for his Biden witch hunt is unambiguously a made up story by corrupt Ukrainians that doesn't fit the documented facts in the slightest, which every professional involved told him clearly, a fake story furthered directly by Trump in public.

In fact, it is hands off for the president. Using the power of the office to direct investigations of political rivals is impeachable.
Using the office to blackmail foreign powers to interfere in our election by starting false investigations for political reasons is a crime.
Taking foreign money in exchange for illegal and corrupt policies that are against the national interests but personally beneficial is treason. He has done exactly that.

But in YOUR mind, Treasonous Trump can do no wrong, and things that were treason when you baselessly claimed Democrats did them are patriotism when Trump brags about them. You can't even understand that Trump openly committed the very crime he was convinced by foreign criminals Biden committed...using the power of his office and public funds to pressure foreign investigations for personal gain...the difference being Trump did it secretly for personal political gains and was caught, Biden didn't do anything besides join international and bipartisan efforts to remove a corrupt prosecutor who wouldn't prosecute corruption. Trump removed a top notch anti corruption diplomat because she wouldn't push for a corrupt and baseless politically motivated investigation of his political rival, exactly what the corrupt Ukrainians had paid him to do.

Trump couldn't come up with any other corruption he wants investigated besides the Biden fantasy he was sold, and when asked exactly what he expected from Ukraine, he said he specifically expected them to investigate Biden, not fight corruption. Same for China, which was not a joke or trolling of the public, his trade advisor admitted he brought it up in official trade talks before he said it publicly.

You keep chanting 'he'll drain the swamp' ignoring he is the swamp thing, and the swampiest administration ever with more corruption convictions than any two administrations combined (an educated guess, might be >2) and more scandals than any 10 combined.

If I weren't sure you were a Russian troll only trying to sew division with ridiculous republican regurgitation of baseless claims based on delusion and corruption, I would be seriously worried about your mental state.

Edit: remember these days in 15 months. When Democrats control congress and the executive, the same "see no evil" tactics will be more than fair play. No matter how unconstitutional their actions might be, no matter how unacceptable, we will see no wrong....just cleaning up the Trump mess. Nothing to worry about.

Keep chanting that to yourself. Maybe you'll believe it, no one else does.

President's personal attorneys aren't involved in foreign affairs that are above board....ever.
Unclassified transcripts aren't hidden in servers intended for top secret CIA info if there's nothing to hide.
Trump admitted on TV that he asked a foreign president to investigate his political rival. Collusion.
Breaking the law to hide the whistleblower report doesn't happen if there's nothing to hide.

Trump's about to be a chicken dinner. Edit: Sounds like around 30 Republican senators think it's unacceptable. 8-10 more than needed if they vote for America and not Trump.

I hope you're ready for crazy Biden to loose his mind and break the law daily, and for Democrats to completely ignore it and laugh at you for being bothered because they run both houses. Trump may have just handed him the election, and the Senate seems poised to go down with him by turning a blind eye. The public is not on your side.

Your video, Trump Lies About Racist Rally Chant: A Closer Look, has made it into the Top 15 New Videos listing. Congratulations on your achievement. For your contribution you have been awarded 1 Power Point.

This achievement has earned you your "Pop Star" Level 36 Badge!

Lol.

The report is all lies!? As if you've read any of it. If Trump told you it's all fake news lies, and Trump told you it exonerated him and showed no obstruction, doesn't that mean the exoneration is fake news and there was obstruction?

The mainstream is all leftist? There I agree, mainstream America is leftist....compared to your conspiracy based far right insanity. That's why Trump has never enjoyed even 50% approval, unlike every other president ever.

This is about getting people to hear the actual report, not your ignorant Trumpian lies about it. You think this is a "we got him" moment?! Lol. We know there is no such thing with the complicit sycophantic Senate. How many "we got her" moments have you enjoyed over Clinton?

No one person in American history has offered more lies to the American public than Little Donny, America's Biggest Loser. I know you hate hearing that, because you can't contradict it.
Obama didn't need a lawyer in 8 years, how many has Trump needed in under 3 years? And now on top of the never-ending litany of scandals, criminal prosecutions, lost court cases, failed policies, appointees removed for cause, etc, he has yet another rape charge to defend, how many sexual harassment charges is that? 14?
Better get another lawyer.

It's so hilarious to hear your ilk complain "you lost, get over it" halfway through the process with so much of the report still being litigated, but the same cucks still chant "lock her up", "reinvestigate Clinton", etc after 25+ years and hundreds of millions wasted on failed attempts to dig up dirt on her....then lie and claim "$30 million wasted investigating Trump for nothing, nada, zip" (nothing except 34 convictions for crimes against America and over $45 million recovered, and a dozen active criminal court cases).

Oops....among all your other misstatements of fact, you forgot Papadopolis, who's illegal collusion with Russia, seeking a hostile foreign power's help in digging up dirt on Democrats, actually started the FBI investigation before anyone knew the Republicans hired Fusion/Steele, who later turned their work over to Clinton, who then informed the FBI who was already investigating Trump's campaign. Papadopoulos plead guilty. His actions spurred the legitimate investigation, not Fusion or Steele.

On October 5, 2017, Papadopoulos pleaded guilty to making false statements to FBI agents about the timing and the possible significance of his contacts in 2016 relating to U.S.-Russia relations and the Donald Trump presidential campaign.

It's clear you haven't read the Mueller report...although if you had it's also clear you would continue to lie about what's in it, as you just did. There are mountains of evidence being considered in multiple courts as we speak, and mountains more waiting for him to leave office. 34 convictions on that evidence you say isn't enough for court. The lions share of those blacked out parts of the report you didn't read are due to ongoing cases....liar.

Most of what was in the Steele dossier turned out to be 100% correct, as was the decision to turn it over. It was independently verified before being mentioned in courts. This has been litigated, and Trump lost, sore loser. Trump, conversely, still publicly states he would accept foreign help in his campaign and wouldn't inform the FBI, two crimes against the US. Rusher, if you're listening, please hack government servers and release dirt on my opponent...remember? And within hours they did exactly that, remember?

In October 2015, Fusion GPS was contracted by conservative political website The Washington Free Beacon (who, like most Republicans were Trump haters) to provide general opposition research on Trump and other Republican presidential candidates. In April 2016, attorneys for Hillary Clinton's campaign and the DNC separately hired Fusion GPS to investigate Trump, while The Free Beacon stopped its backing in May of 2016. In June 2016, Fusion GPS subcontracted Steele's firm to compile the dossier. Clinton campaign officials were reportedly unaware that Fusion GPS had subcontracted Steele, and he was not told that the Clinton campaign was the recipient of his research. Following Trump's election as president, funding from Clinton and the DNC ceased, but Steele continued his research and was reportedly paid directly by Fusion GPS co-founder Glenn R. Simpson. While compiling the dossier, Steele passed information to both British and American intelligence services.

Trump has said clearly he would not have turned it over, nor would he care if the accusations were true.


Trump is a life long criminal fraud, admitted and convicted, and horrific business man, backstabbing "friend" who constantly tried to sleep with his friend's wives, incestuous pedophile, cheating husband and philanderer, and well known documented golf cheat. You and he admit he's a constant liar, in fact you applaud him for lying, stating clearly that you think that he is smart to lie under oath, because the truth would convict him. His cabinet has proven to be the worst, most criminal administration ever in the history of the US. None has more convictions for crimes against the state, or more pending criminal cases, or more lobbyists filling positions, or more turnover, or more failed appointments.

Funny, don't you still chant "lock her up" over pizzagate and Benghazzi, demanding more politically motivated investigations alongside Trump? Sore loser...still fighting the losses. As usual, you have it all hypocritically backwards.

[Redacted to conform with sift rules, not because I didn't mean every word]

@bobknight33, you know posting divisive and derisive propaganda like this is akin to marching with your tiki torch chanting "the Jews will not replace us", right?
Where are these "good people" that are allegedly on your side? All I ever see are these certifiably insane provocateurs the right loves to cheer on and get behind.

@newtboy,

missed your reply, you need to check the video again as you clearly didn't watch what I'm watching.
You said:
"I disagree 100%. Sane people did this to stop the rapidly escalating anger between the kids and (disgusting) black Israelites before the kids attacked the Israelites, which seemed inevitable because no one was controlling the kids (or the small group of Black Israelites) and the kids were getting more and more rowdy."
At 1:09 the Black Israelites are making fun of the kids specifically because they are "keeping their distance". At 1:11 the kids are presumably standing/jumping doing one of their school chants, moving no closer to the black Israelites. At 1:12 after the chant, the kids all sit down. After the kids have been not only 'keeping their distance', but sitting down now for a minute is when Nathan Phillips comes in to 'de-escalate' things. You can not honestly paint that as looking like an 'inevitable attack' was coming from the kids. The reality is the kids were staying back, and sitting down while the Black Israelite adults continued trying unsuccessfully to escalate things.

You later said:
"and note smirk boy is not there, he gets into the stationary elders face later. "

If you look at 1:13, smirk boy is 3 rows back from the elder. If you watch till 1:14 you notice that the camera man isn't moving, but Phillips gets further and further away because is walking slowly into the crowd of students. The students don't so much surround him, they make way as he invades their personal space until they move until about 1:15. If you watch 1:15, the camera is the same place as it was back at 1:11, the kids are at the same distance from the camera and the same location on the stairs, but now you can't even see Phillips because he's so far into the group.

I gotta admit, I'm a little floored you can come away still seeing what you want to see...

Sorry...some details that were hastily reported have turned out to be more nuanced than originally thought, for instance it's now being reported that there were adult chaperones there, but the kids absolutely surrounded, taunted, and acted threatening to the native American elder, mocking his ceremony with racist chants and tomahawk chops to derisive laughter, they were not trying to join him as some have tried to claim.
They also blocked the progress of the planned, permitted closing ceremony, intentionally or not.

More video has surfaced of what appears to be some of these kids shouting at and harassing other people (the video I saw was 6+ MAGA boys screaming at a pair of girls) on this trip, away from this incident.
These aren't angels caught up and unfairly painted, these are kids who have reportedly posted videos of at least 4 of themselves dressed in black face and the whole school's bleachers chanting "caramel" at lone black basketball players at their school functions apparently with the full support of their teachers and school....that video just removed from the school website, but after going public.
They've already been invited to the Whitehouse.

If being in Heaven means being around the people who say they will go, Trump supporters, then Hell is a billion times better. The fact that God doesn't care enough to tell his followers that they are following the literal antichrist system, is telling.

Trump Supporters... They HATE LGBTQIA people. They HATE the needy and the poor. They HATE scientific truth, like climate change. They are filled with HATE for foreigners. They LOVE wealth and inequality. They LOVE greed. They LOVE war. Every Trump supporter is like that. They are all bigoted people.

And when I say all Trump supporters, I mean damn near all the ones I personally know. My family, the people I work with. All evil, bigoted people who thump their chest about how Christian they are, and how anyone who reads the Bible would have to be Republican. Who agree with Jerry Falwell Jr. how those who don't support Trump are immoral. They are all stuck in this evangelical cult of Trump.

The day I see the Love of Christ from Republican Christians in masse, will be a miracle. But every fucking day I have to listen to Fox news near all day every day. I have to listen to listen to provable lies that are being taken as gospel, and having to hear how everyone who isn't supporting Trump is evil and against Christ.

Now you may argue that doesn't represent all Christians. But that clearly represents the vast majority of those who care to vote, and certainly of the kids in this video.

Also I wouldn't say I was a cultural Christian at all. My family was, we went to church once a week. Then I got serious about it. I started watching TBN all the time. Started going to an evangelical church. Blasted Democrats and anybody who wouldn't trust Fox News and Fox News alone (my prior comments as Charon seem to have been purged, but I'd blast evolution, trust only in Fox). I went 3 services a week. I was one of those people who'd make sure I said "Merry Christmas" just to be sure people got the message. As I've said before, the initial moment was realizing that the GOP was becoming more and more like the antichrist, and that it was the polar opposite of what Christ himself would want. I became a Libertarian, backed off the 3 services a week to just one, mostly in search of a church that wasn't practically telling people that Republican is the only way a real Christian could vote. Then in 2008 at the Republican debate when a room full of pro-life Christians started chanting "Let him die! Let him die!" with great enthusiasm, about a guy not having insurance and what should happen to him... that was the catalyst that opened the door to everything being so wrong. to say "this... this whole thing is wrong..." And then God did nothing. Christ did nothing. It's gotten a billion times worse since then. Those type of Christians continue to be the main reason people have the same moment where they go... no... and move on. I went, became Pagan for a time, and found it just as connecting to God, at least for those who were serious about it, and empathy says, if they are having just as sincere a relationship with their God as Christians have with God, then it is all equal... and the logic then said, "or not equal, and just as stupid".

Now perhaps I wouldn't be so anti-Christian if I wasn't surrounded by them at work, and having to live with people I'd shit and piss on their grave if their eventual grave wasn't attached to my sister's. Then again, I'd see the news of what these people are doing to this country, fucking it over for profit, and hurting the very people Christ said to help, and doing so in Christ's name... which is the technical definition of using the Lord's name in vain, not just saying something like "Jesus Christ" in exasperation. I do put up with my girlfriend being Christian, though it and her high sex drive are the two things that most drive me nuts... but beggars can't be choosers, and marriage is the only way out of this hell hole of being with my parents at 50 fucking years old... at least until child support goes away...

NOBODY is seeing the love of Christ demonstrated by people like my family, 80-95% of the people at work, Fox, TBN, CBN, 700 Club, Jim Baker, and the like. And they do represent the public image of Christianity. If the moderates and liberal Christians are the majority of Christians, then they don't make their voice known, they don't vote in opposition to these sort of people in this video and on Fox. So either God isn't moving their hearts, they don't care, or God doesn't exist. Even if he does, if my family, Bob, the people I work with, these kids, the other Trump supporters are the main ones there, then I don't want to have to be around them forever, it's bad enough being around them for a short life. Want people to come to God, then start with those sort of people and get them to see how they are doing more harm than good. They have to more at making the world a better place than they do, to leave the world in better shape for centuries to come. Not to take it all for now, not to assume Christ is coming back soon, but always practice he's 50,000 years from coming back... and 1,000 years from now, it's still 50,000 years from then. To act the way Christ said to act, not the greedy fucks that make up the GOP. To actually show the love he showed. He hung out with sinners, and railed against those who were walking around thumping their chest about how holy they are, yet these GOP Christians are thumping their chests, and shunning those who sin differently.

Anyhow I could rant on, but that's enough for now. I do appreciate the higher degree of kindness you tend to show than certain others, and my family... almost all Trump supporters I personally know...

The Christian right wing kids left the March against choice unchaperoned and decided to be morons and intimidate this small group.
Edit: New videos show both groups were antagonize by a group of black Israelites first, not that it excuses the kids.

The articles I've read said the native group was performing a closing ceremony when the kids approached them. The leader tried to retreat to protect his group when the smirking kid and others stood in his way while the rest mocked him with derisive Indian noises, insults, derisive laughter, screams, and Trump slogans.

No surprise you defend this, they wore the right that, so must be the good guys.
Fortunately most others aren't so deluded.
At the least, they represented their school and town so disastrously and publicly that there will be some consequences, but because they certainly learned to be disrespectful douche bags from their parents, those consequences will likely be minor.

And no, spitting is not Ok, show me who said it was, please.

Meeting a loud crowd of angry Neo-Nazis with a larger and louder crowd of angry anti nazis is totally appropriate. Driving a car full speed into that counter crowd from behind is not appropriate....sad I think I need to say that but I do.
Surrounding an elderly veteran who's leading a performance of a closing native ceremony and derisively mocking him and his culture, well, you think that's ok too...it's not, and it's decidedly unChristian (in theory, it's very Christian as practiced).

Yes, forming in a circle around him to interrupt his ceremony and intimidate an elderly man and small group by smirking in his face and chanting "hi-ya-hi-ya-hi-ya" while tomahawk chopping and holding up an "L" on their foreheads is berating, and is volatile. Trump asked for people doing <1% of that to be beaten before being arrested, and many were. Fuck, Bob. Try to be just a little rational and not so biased you completely lose touch with reality. *facepalm

I was raised to respect other people, regardless of race, gender, creed or religion. I was taught that it was right to not give differential treatment to others because of race and gender, and to reserve differential treatment for other people facing differential circumstance, ability or behaviour. I believe in these as important fundamental values, and I consider those values worth defending.

When I see somebody painting an entire race or gender as the 'same' and as a problem, I get defensive of them. Here's how the commercial portrays men:
"It's been going on far too long... Making the same old excuses"
Entire line of men ALL chanting boys will be boys
"But something finally changed...And there will be no going back"

That isn't just a statement against bad behavior of men, it's a statement that ALL men have been participating in or excusing the bad behavior. At best, the message is urging men as needing to take an especial roll in rooting out violent and sexual harassment. That's identical to the logic of urging menmuslims as needing to take an especial roll in rooting out terrorismviolent and sexual harassment. Albeit, arguably worse in that your religion is at least a choice(trigger non-binary proponents).

The point is if it's targeting men who behave badly, or ALL men. Pointed out the section of the commercial in another thread:

"It's been going on far too long... Making the same old excuses"
Entire line of men ALL chanting boys will be boys
"But something finally changed...And there will be no going back"

The most straight forward interpretation here is that the problem lies with ALL men. It's in fact tricky to interpret " something finally changed" and "no going back" to at the least be an indictment of MOST men, baring the brave heroic minority that are finally taking a stand.

IMO, that's not how you get people to change, that's how you make them defensive and get them to dig in their heels.

Watched it once after seeing the outrage, yawned and moved on.

Then I saw guys like this adamant that the commercial wasn't characterizing all men, but the bad actors/behaviour, so I re-watched it as my first lazy watch had left me feeling like I could see how people felt it was at least targeting most men.

Here's what I saw second watch:
"It's been going on far too long... Making the same old excuses"
Entire line of men ALL chanting boys will be boys
"But something finally changed...And there will be no going back"

Yeah, I get where people are saying this commercial is painting at least a majority of men as bad actors, and that the good news is that is finally changing. It's even the most straightforward reading of the message to me, and you have to do a bit of mental benefit of the doubt to dismiss the now things are changing as less than an indictment of previous generations of most/all men.