@NetRunner I agree that Republican obstructionism is not good, but if Dem's had the significant majority in both the house and senate would it make a big difference? I think in the past it might have, when the corporate influence in politics wasn't so great, these days... I think it's a very hard argument to make, especially considering the fact they didn't do anything significant when they did have the numbers after the last election. Besides, by saying the GOP made nice comments about Arab Spring then bad comments about these protests, aren't you highlighting their hypocrisy? So what's the big deal about highlighting hypocrisy when it comes from the other side?

@bcglorf Your 'protesters' were mercenaries paid for with oil profits, as I already mentioned (and verified with links) in our last discussion, it seems you do not learn. You also cannot decide what others can and cannot think, as you seem to suggest is possible. Part of the official mission statement of the OWS protesters is the recognition that America has "perpetuated colonialism at home and abroad". I would say that hiring merceneries to secure oil supplies and then installing a friendly dictatorship to ensure trade agreements is pretty damn close to colonialism. The most sickening irony of your statement is that, unlike your fairyland mass graves that don't exist (see below), the rebels actually have been killing government supporters and burying them in mass graves.

Your mass graves
http://news.antiwar.com/2011/10/06/rebel-claims-of-libya-mass-graves-come-up-empty-again/

The real mass graves
http://news.smh.com.au/breaking-news-world/about-900-bodies-in-libya-mass-graves-20111006-1lbth.html

By all means, continue to spread propaganda like your life depends on it, you're completely transparent.

>> ^notarobot:

I think the medis is beginning to take this more seriously:
Occupy Wall Street Arrests; Fox 5 Crew and Protesters Hit by Mace, Batons
Several video angles of the night's violence here:
http://occupywallst.org/article/reports-pepper-spray/


Makes me afraid that we'll see planted Agent provocateurs soon.

>> ^lantern53:

Why don't these people bitch at the President? They're all revolutionaries and maybe he could front them a favor.


I don't think it's possible to generalize and say they are all revolutionaries, everyone is there for their own reasons. The President has almost nothing to do with this, he's a puppet, protesting at him would be like protesting to your favorite teddy bear.

Breaking News!!!

Fox does something outrageously stupid...

wait, doesn't everyone already know this?

>> ^bcglorf:

>> ^marbles:
>> ^bcglorf:

And meanwhile you lament the loss of monsters like Saddam, Gaddafi and Assad. Well done.

Do you have a citation for that claim?
Meanwhile 1.5 million dead civilians in Iraq, untold thousands of dead civilians from drone attacks in Afghanistan, Pakistan, Yemen, Somalia, hundreds of innocents locked up and tortured at secret prisons all over the world, terror bombings in North Africa, yeah... you've got the moral high-ground here.

And your problem is you hold Saddam guiltless for the Iraqi dead. You hold the Taliban and Al Qaeda guiltless for the Afghan and Pakistani dead. You hold Al Shabab guiltless for the Somali dead. You hold Gaddafi guiltless for the Libyan dead.
What kind of twisted world view do you have were you reject the evidence for the above, but fully and enthusiastically embrace the guilt of those fighting against Saddam, Gaddafi, the Taliban, Al Qaeada and Al Shabab?


Fuck you. That's 3 times now in this thread you've made the same baseless accusations against me. Fuck you. You want to ignore the world wide terrorism and murder that you support, so be it.

Using your standard, we should be invading/bombing China, Russia, Saudi Arabia, and half of the world. And to go further, China, Russia, and whoever else should be invading/bombing the US trying to install the type of government they think we should have.

What kind of "twisted world view" is that?

>> ^hpqp:

@marbles
You really are an "either/or" kind of person aren't you. Either we adhere to your paranoid conspiracy theories or we are the brainwashed mouthpieces of the guv'mint propaganda and fully support the violence and death caused by America's wars.
Sure there are Al Qaeda elements amongst the Lybian rebels, geopolitics is a messy thing. But to go from there to saying that the Arab Spring uprisings is some mass conspiracy takes the kind of singleminded ignorance that conspiracy theorists and religious fanatics have in common.
"You're either with us or against us" may be good enough for Jesus, W. Bush and conspiracy nuts, but the rest of us like to have a nuanced view of things.
As for Tapley: "The notion of anthropogenic global warming is a fraud." ( The Obama Deception: The Mask Comes Off 2009). Sounds very much like denialism to me.


No, I just try to see the world for what it is. Cut through the bullshit, and find the truth. Regurgitating talking points from sources that over and over lie to me just seems like a fool's errand, but you find solace in being a dis-info/government apologist.

I guess that makes you an "I know, but" kind of person: I know Obama said he was going to end the wars, but we've got finish what Bush started. I know we've killed millions of people, but we're trying to spread democracy. I know we armed and supported Al-qaeda rebels in Libya (remnants of the same ones attacking US troops in Iraq), but "geopolitics is a messy thing". The list is endless.

And "you're either with us or against us" is the same motto used by "progressive" war-mongers like Obama, Hillary, and Reid, not just neocons. I think the real problem is you're just hostile toward the truth whenever it exposes your false reality, whenever it bursts your blissful ignorance of illusion.

And for Tarpley, of course it sounds like "denialism" to you. Narrow-minded government sycophants would equate the two as the same.

>> ^marbles:

>> ^bcglorf:

And meanwhile you lament the loss of monsters like Saddam, Gaddafi and Assad. Well done.

Do you have a citation for that claim?
Meanwhile 1.5 million dead civilians in Iraq, untold thousands of dead civilians from drone attacks in Afghanistan, Pakistan, Yemen, Somalia, hundreds of innocents locked up and tortured at secret prisons all over the world, terror bombings in North Africa, yeah... you've got the moral high-ground here.


And your problem is you hold Saddam guiltless for the Iraqi dead. You hold the Taliban and Al Qaeda guiltless for the Afghan and Pakistani dead. You hold Al Shabab guiltless for the Somali dead. You hold Gaddafi guiltless for the Libyan dead.

What kind of twisted world view do you have were you reject the evidence for the above, but fully and enthusiastically embrace the guilt of those fighting against Saddam, Gaddafi, the Taliban, Al Qaeada and Al Shabab?

>> ^bcglorf:


And meanwhile you lament the loss of monsters like Saddam, Gaddafi and Assad. Well done.


Do you have a citation for that claim?

Meanwhile 1.5 million dead civilians in Iraq, untold thousands of dead civilians from drone attacks in Afghanistan, Pakistan, Yemen, Somalia, hundreds of innocents locked up and tortured at secret prisons all over the world, terror bombings in North Africa, yeah... you've got the moral high-ground here.

>> ^marbles:

@cheerleaders for Western colonialism and imperialism
This is what you support:
http://videosift.com/video/Make-No-Mistake-NATO-committed-War-Cri
mes-in-Libya
Get ready for the occupation force in Libya, the advance on Syria, and maybe even a confrontation with Iran.
http://videosift.com/video/Military-Sources-Reveal-Ground-For
ce-Invasion-of-Libya
http://videosift.com/video/World-War-III-Defined-Wider-War-
Unfolding-in-Middle-East
This has been planned out for at least 10 years.
Gareth Porter: General Wesley Clark, who commanded the North Atlantic Treaty Organization bombing campaign in the Kosovo war, recalls in his 2003 book Winning Modern Wars being told by a friend in the Pentagon in November 2001 that the list of states that Rumsfeld and deputy secretary of defense Paul Wolfowitz wanted to take down included Iraq, Iran, Syria, Libya, Sudan and Somalia.


And meanwhile you lament the loss of monsters like Saddam, Gaddafi and Assad. Well done.

>> ^hpqp:

What a trustworthy source, Webster Tarpley, 9/11 "it's-an-insidejob"er and climate change denialist.

Did man also never set foot on the moon, oh bearer of unwanted truths?
>> ^marbles:
The CIA’s Libya Rebels: The Same Terrorists who Killed US, NATO Troops in Iraq
Al Qaeda: Pawns of CIA Insurrection from Libya to Yemen
edit - link added:
Is the “Imminent Liberation of Libya” Propaganda?



Typical hpqp response. Scared to address the facts but has no problem tossing out lazy ad hominem static.
For the record 9/11 was an inside job, and Tarpley is not a "climate change denialist".

Furthermore, Tarpley's first article is completely sourced so I guess those idiots at West Point must be wrong about North-eastern Libya having the greatest concentration of Al-Qaeda fighters anywhere in the world.

The Telegraph and Washington Times must be conspiring with Tarpley also.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/africaandindianocean/libya/8407047/Libyan-rebel-commander-admits-his-fighters-have-al-Qaeda-links.html (link dead?)
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2011/feb/24/al-qaeda-offers-aid-to-rebels-in-libya/

>> ^bcglorf:

>> ^marbles:
Title is incorrect. The independent journalist interviewed says the mainstream media is pushing NATO propaganda.
"Claims of rebel advances dismissed as misinformation by eyewitnesses" = Gaddafi is ready to die in Tripolis / The rebels win!
Orwellian doublespeak at it's finest.
Edit: video content deserves up vote even though the title is inaccurate.

I'm afraid I have bad news for you marbles. The great and beloved leader of the Libyan people truly has been overthrown by the Imperialistic puppets that western propaganda has labelled the Libyan opposition/rebels. It's a sad day for freedom hating people the world over.


You sound like George Bush. I guess you think we liberated Iraq too.

>> ^ghark:

Breaking news: Democracy is now people throwing their hands in the air repeatedly while people in the background hold guns and fireworks go off.


Snide comments have their place, but in this context your just sympathizing with a deposed tyrannical dictator.

A ruthless dictator's brutal multi-decade rule has finally been brought to an end by what started as protesters demanding nothing more than the right to vote for their leader and the freedom to express their displeasure with their current leadership.


If that isn't breaking news of a victory for democratic values over tyranny, what is?

Breaking news: Democracy is now people throwing their hands in the air repeatedly while people in the background hold guns and fireworks go off.