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ChaosEngine (Member Profile)

ShakaUVM says...

There are plenty of studies and tests done on alt med. What makes something alt med instead of medicine is not if it is efficacious (as you falsely believe) but if it is part of the prevailing medical tradition. This is the definition used by the FDA, the NHS, the WHO, and every other major health organization in the world. So if you don't like the definition of alt med, take it up with them.

We have plenty of studies on the efficacy of St. John's Wort. It is already 'approved'. End of story. Your 'simple answer' would require some company to pony up millions to billions of dollars to get it to pass FDA approval, when it is not patentable and so they would not be able to recover the extreme costs. Your 'simple answer' would mean simply removing all of these supplements from store shelves and forcing people into taking meds that are ten times as expensive with the same efficacy.

ChaosEngine said:

No, he's not wrong.

It's pretty simple. Either your supplement does what it claims to or it doesn't. If it does, submit it for testing and approval.

There's no such thing as "alternative medicine". There is only that which has been proven to work (i.e. medicine) and that which has either not been proven to work or been proven not to work.

Besides, it is completely unreasonable to expect the average person to research the efficacy of supplements. Even among intelligent educated people (clearly a minority), most of them do not have time, let alone the ability to conduct this kind of research. That's why we have regulatory bodies. I wouldn't ask an epidemiologist to build a house and I wouldn't ask an architect about the efficacy of drugs.

As for St Johns Wort, the answer is simple. If it works, get it approved. The solution is not "hey, this one thing works! Let's open the floodgates to every supplement!"

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radx says...

People are starving in Greece, fascists are marching in the streets of Athens.

And given that SNAP participation went from ~26 million in January of '07 to ~39 million in January of '10 to ~47 million in January of '13, I'd say the US is getting there as well. The planned cuts to SNAP will only accelerate it further.

But everything's good in the UK though. People are not likely to starve, now that food banks are popping up everywhere and the Red Cross is distributing care packages for the first time since the end of WW2.

Besides, those likely to starve will freeze first anyway. They had ~31k of excess winter deaths last year, while this year's prognosis was going for ~35k, last I heard. Food or fuel, can't have both.

Those riots in London two years ago, they were a singular occurence. All the underlying issues have been addressed. Youth unemployment is #1 on David Cameron's list, I'm sure of it. Well, maybe #2. Privatisation of the NHS has priority after all.

I apologize for my sarcasm and my cynicism, but mass violence is not unimaginable anymore in the Old World and it's pissing me off. We are in the process of flushing an entire generation of people down the toilet. These current rates of youth unemployment are unsustainable in a democratic society. The banlieus of Paris, the boroughs of London... shit will hit the fan eventually, unless there's a radical change of policy from within the system.

The elections to the European Parliament in May next year will be an indicator. As of now, it looks as if a whole lot of (far) right wing parties will enter the stage.

Also, keep an eye on the island of bliss(ful ignorance) within Europe: Germany. We're heading straight for a grand coalition that would control ~80% of parliament, rendering all instruments at the opposition's disposal inert. Did I mention they also have the neccessary 2/3 majority to institute changes to our constitution? Fucking awesome!

Again, sorry for being a grumpy fuck, but everytime I open the paper, it's a bloody nightmare -- and that's before you take away the sugar coating.

VoodooV said:

well...things are different now. We're not physical slaves, but you can argue that we're economic slaves. Even poor people usually aren't starving. food is cheap, at least shitty food is. It's a sort of gilded cage. So it's harder to get to that tipping point of committing to a "revolution"

alien_concept (Member Profile)

radx says...

It's not like they had a lot of shame to begin with, but recently...

You mentioned the rather scandalous jumper remark. Between this and the food packages distributed by the Red Cross and the electricity/heating issue and the NHS/Lewisham proceedings and the privatisation of the Royal Mail for a pittance and the housing situation in the greater London area, I'm rather surprised you haven't paraded Dave's head around on a pike just yet.

Today's Guardian had a few pieces about cold food, damp homes, freezing pensioners and overcrowded food banks -- it was as depressing as it was infuriating.

The establisment has always been out of sync with what most people perceive to be reality, but Dave and his buddies seem to have cut all ties to the rest of the country.

alien_concept said:

Okay, I'm up to speed. This doesn't surprise me in the slightest. They're in the middle of rushing through the gagging laws which would effectively stop activists and protests. They have stopped all but a very few cases of legal aid, so if you're poor you're not now entitled to justice. Cameron and co. told people last week if they're truly faced with putting food on the table or heating the house up then "Put a jumper on." And on and on and on...

They're not bothered about hiding anything anymore, that's all

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dannym3141 says...

He's right. But i ask you this; who is going to get this message across to the masses of the country? Who is going to drive this home to them and tell them - wake up, it's really happening.

I share things like this on facebook all the time - sometimes even more important things, like clear and precise explanations of how jeremy hunt is trying to privatise our NHS by the back door. No one watches it, no one cares.

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