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Baffled by Stupidity: Richard Dawkins

dannym3141 says...

The NHS is a non-theistic universal health care system.

Still the pride of the nation despite corrupt politicians trying to sell it off, and creating confusing policy changes and overhauls to try and slow it down and clog it up to make it look like it needs privatisation.

Are you trying to play down the positive influence that atheistic people have had on the world? Because even the pope would call you an imbecile for trying to suggest that the world would be better off without contributions from those who worked under an atheistic remit (i.e. one which was prepared to challenge the traditional, often religious answers). And vice versa - the problem with the world is people who can't find the value in things they don't understand or agree with.

How very small minded of you to think that a life without theism is a life not worth living. I'm sure an alcoholic would say the same to a teetotaller. I couldn't find meaning in a life without god =/= there is no meaning in a life without god.

I tell you what; i'll have a life without meaning as long as you're a coward who is crippled delusional by their fear of the possibility they will one day cease to exist. Do you think your god approves of your behaviour?

If there is a god, he'll prefer my company over yours - i didn't need the promise of sweets later to be good now. I did it because i'm good.

lantern53 said:

yeah...that's what Christians do...

when they're not building hospitals, feeding the poor, raising their families, defending the nation, going to work every day.

Good luck finding that atheist hospital before you drop into your nihilist, nonexistent afterlife! lol

also, I'm curious... what is precious about life when it has no meaning?

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Russell Brand debates Nigel Farage on immigration

dannym3141 says...

"The rich keep you fed enough that you bark at the intruders." - Some youtuber.

Yes he's a little out of his depth and he's so desperate to try and get people to understand that he's hurrying and nervous. Well, he's a comedian, he isn't used to public speaking, he knows how to make people laugh not convince them in an argument. But he's out there, putting his neck on the line when he doesn't even NEED to - because as the tabloids (controlled by who?) enjoy pointing out he's rich. At least he got rich through his ability to make people laugh, rather than tricking people into voting for him because he'd act in their best interests then selling their decisions to the highest bidder.

We are seeing politicians scrambling for ANYTHING they can to hold power and keep making money for a little longer. That anything is immigration and they're quite happy to let people convince themselves its the immigrants. Even if we are slightly overcrowded for our infrastructure in Britain, we wouldn't be if the money in the system was active and being used to build and be productive instead of sitting in the pockets of people who have everything they want and 8 figure bank balances. These people in charge keep telling us they're going to tackle all these problems, but they never do anything to close the loopholes being used by all the huge corporations who have been paying NO TAX WHATSOEVER during the times of extreme wealth and growth. Is it any wonder our countries are in a dire condition? Our tax system has been starved of hundreds of billions, possibly trillions, who really knows!? And why weren't they closed? Just look at the links between big business and and politics, the only reason we aren't all saying "what the fuck is going on?" is because they can distract people through their control over the media and their convincing oratory skill into going "it's your neighbour.. it's his fault. was he born here? why is he using your hospital?", meanwhile we lose out of BILLIONS because the post office was sold off on the sly! Only to be told next election THAT WE ARE SHORT ON OUR FUCKING BUDGET. You're ok with that happening?! Why is it ok for them to keep coming back having lost our money and asking for more, but if it was a man who came directly to our door to collect our money in exchange for services, we'd tell him to piss off? It's EASIER to blame someone who looks and speaks differently rather than the clever bastard with a gleam in his eye sitting in the pub silver tonguing his constituents.

We are not fucking short on productivity - how many people do you know that think they have a lot of spare time and freedom from work? But that productivity is not being directed appropriately, and if you don't believe that then you need to get outside and talk to people who are less fortunate than you... benefit of the doubt, maybe you just haven't had to see it. But all the money that went on bonuses could be going into improving schools, police, hospitals, public transport and roads and god knows what else. A bunch of people would go without a brand new range rover sport or yacht or champagne holiday for 30... in contrast, thousands less people would die - think of the old people dying in the cold each winter? or hospital beds and treatments for those with cancer or anything that the NHS can't afford to treat? All the freshly educated nurses and doctors thanks to our universities being given cash to improve their facilities and training.

The theory behind all this was trickle-down-wealth, the money will be distributed through society by paying those at the top a lot of money. It CLEARLY does not work, and anyone who suggests otherwise would surely be considered insane. It's not working, we see it not working, so why aren't we fixing it or getting angry and making those in charge fix it?

If Brand is advocating anarchy (and i'd like to know your argument for saying that, i could stand to be convinced), it's because he's exasperated at our inaction and wants to try and stir people to act. We're currently at the other extreme - watching it happen. People are criticising the crowd for being too into brand, too "leftist" or some nonsense. But those are the people that are having their lives drained by these leeches at the top, of course they're only going to come and cheer if someone is going to say what needs to be said. Any other night, it's just drones debating different ways to stack the odds against everyone.

Edited: Tried to make it nicer, more readable, sorry for the long post but he's really really got a great point and i can't understand why we are all ignoring what's going on. We seem to accept that big business WILL get away with not paying billions in tax like that's fine.. but it's not, we can change it, we just have to stop fucking ignoring it and hold these twats to account like Brand is trying to do. It's not like he's suggesting some wild and risky change, he's just saying STOP LETTING AND HELPING PEOPLE STEAL MONEY FROM US. They won't, and watch Farage go bright red when brand talks about his scandals and rich business partners. If they won't, we need to get rid of them. You may not like his demeanour but he is expressing democratic and egalitarian points.

A10anis said:

"Russell Brand destroys Nigel Farage on immigration"???
I can only assume you are joking. Brand was WAY out of his depth. In fact, much as I dislike the pseudo revolutionary, vainglorious half wit, I actually felt sorry for him. He was put firmly in his place by one astute person; "If you think you can, why don't you stand (for election)?" His response; " Mate, I'm frightened I'd become one of them." So, he doesn't even have confidence in his own childish rhetoric. He calls for anarchy just as long as he is not at the helm. He should put up, or shut up. Oh, and his call for people not to vote is one of the stupidest, most irresponsible things I have heard in a while.

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ChaosEngine (Member Profile)

ShakaUVM says...

There are plenty of studies and tests done on alt med. What makes something alt med instead of medicine is not if it is efficacious (as you falsely believe) but if it is part of the prevailing medical tradition. This is the definition used by the FDA, the NHS, the WHO, and every other major health organization in the world. So if you don't like the definition of alt med, take it up with them.

We have plenty of studies on the efficacy of St. John's Wort. It is already 'approved'. End of story. Your 'simple answer' would require some company to pony up millions to billions of dollars to get it to pass FDA approval, when it is not patentable and so they would not be able to recover the extreme costs. Your 'simple answer' would mean simply removing all of these supplements from store shelves and forcing people into taking meds that are ten times as expensive with the same efficacy.

ChaosEngine said:

No, he's not wrong.

It's pretty simple. Either your supplement does what it claims to or it doesn't. If it does, submit it for testing and approval.

There's no such thing as "alternative medicine". There is only that which has been proven to work (i.e. medicine) and that which has either not been proven to work or been proven not to work.

Besides, it is completely unreasonable to expect the average person to research the efficacy of supplements. Even among intelligent educated people (clearly a minority), most of them do not have time, let alone the ability to conduct this kind of research. That's why we have regulatory bodies. I wouldn't ask an epidemiologist to build a house and I wouldn't ask an architect about the efficacy of drugs.

As for St Johns Wort, the answer is simple. If it works, get it approved. The solution is not "hey, this one thing works! Let's open the floodgates to every supplement!"



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