Twas Rumi mate...familiar ear.....cheers

http://www.videosift.com/video/Spiderbait-Old-Man-Sam


r4ce5fgthy6byh7u now thats thinkin with ya head

http://www.videosift.com/video/Tricky-Hell-Is-Around-The-Corner-Classic-Bristol-Sound = dead?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=woRtoRiVMcA = possible fix?
ripe for a saving

Hey Gwaan could I get an invitation to your collective?

"HARMLESS, FRIENDLY, GOOD" - you might add rational to that list - but you seem so convinced that it impossible to be religious and rational.

Yes, I might add that, moderates ARE religious AND rational, which is why they dont take the quran or bible literally.

Ask yourself this Why does Islam exist? Answer: The quran was written. Had muhammed died as a child, and thus never written that book, Islam wouldnt exist, right? So Islam is based on the quran, in some way, you can say Islam IS the Qur'an. Now, ever since the Qur'an, Muslims have argued and thought about what it means, (theology) and reasoning, thought and rationality have produced the version of islam you follow. What I am saying is this is equal to simply watering out the Qur'an, there is nothing, or atleast very, very little in the Qur'an that suggests you should take this book any other way than that it is the inerrant, complete word of the one true God, a statement it continually repeats. So in other words the moderate view is a result of OUTSIDE influence, influence from the real world we live in.

"Terrible dogmas are always involved, whether its communism , nationalism or christianity." - you might add secularism and atheism to that list!

No. Name one crime committed in the name of athiesm and I might consider it. And no, before you try, atheism was not what drove the likes of Stalin. it was Marxism.

Now as far as 'suicide bombing' is concerned I have a few points to make.

(1) I condemn 'suicide bombing' and have had many arguments with extreme imams, religious scholars, and Islamic leaders about this issue.

I have never thought otherwise, and never claimed otherwise.

(2) You continue to bad mouth Islam when you derogatorily refer to the Qur'an as "their winged horse-riding dead hero's perfect book".


Do i get a prize? I think the Qur'an is one of the most mind-destructive, intolerant works of fiction ever produced. Feel free to disagree.

(3) Once again you reveal your complete lack of knowledge about the Islamic world when you say that such a large percentage of Muslims in Lebanon and Turkey believe that it is "ok to murder innocent people". That is complete rubbish!!! They believe that 'suicide bombing' is a legitimate strategic tactic which can be used as a last resort in order to prevent the death and destruction of Muslims at the hands of a hostile invading force that seeks to wipe Muslims out. The vast vast vast majority of Muslims and Islamic scholars would completely condemn the kind of indiscriminate 'suicide bombing' that you see in Iraq today, and the cult of the martyr that has sprung up. But far less of them would condemn the use of 'suicide bombing' as a strategic weapon against Israeli imperialism in Palestine (and Lebanon) - where suicide bombing began. Unfortunately, America's unobjective support of Israeli aggression against Palestine (and Lebanon) for over fifty years, coupled with the illegal invasion of Iraq (heavily promoted and supported by AIPAC), neocon policy in the middle east and greater islamic world (again heavily influenced by AIPAC), and the subsequent heavy handed tactics of the American forces in Iraq, mean that many in the islamic world view the American presence in Iraq as an oppressive imperial occupying force - and hence a legitimate target.

Wrong again, read the study, the question was "Can suicide bombing be justified to defend islam" Not an oppressive occupant, not as a means of self-defence or last retort to prevent suffering, but to defend Islam, the religion, the word of the prophet, the Quran. Had it been for the reasons you mentioned, it would still be disturbing, but those numbers represent an intellectual disaster. There is NO question what can possibly drive people to adapt such a view, and that thing is faith.

(4) Suicide bombing is not irrational. Almost every study conducted in the West has concluded that suicide bombing is a strategic weapon used by people to achieve political objectives. Furthermore, and rather unfortunately, it is a strategy which has proved successful in the past - often leading to the withdrawal of the targetted troops or peoples.

Yes, this is true, but there are only so many ways you can get your "tool" to do this kind of volunteer work, the less sophisticated way is by kidnapping a mans family, threaten to chop their heads off one by one.

Can you guess what the other, easier, less messy method is? Get the numbnut to actually believe the nonsense in the Quran letter-by-letter. How can ANYONE be coerced into a literary interpretation of that thing??? Well.. he could read it...


Once again let me repeat that I totally condemn suicide attacks.


And again, I know, and I have never thought otherwise. and again, I know millions of muslims feel the same way.

Enjoyed your Merle Haggard sift. I posted a comment asking if you've heard his "silver wings". Looking over Youtube, this was all I could find. It's the recording, but just some (misspelled) lyrics to go along. Worth the hear though
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cupVwLbavt0

Gwann,

I'm just jokin'. Also, although I'm not much of a contributor, I appreciate the spirit behind your Collective. Also your willingness to engage dialogue over spiritual matters. Thanks.

Sc

In reply to your comment:
“"Is that spaghetti or snot? "

It's smoke!”

Thanks for the feature gwaan; it's been a while since I've submitted. I suppose I should get off my duff and find something...!

Hi, I found this on google video, and thought it might interest you.
[http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7139268560599794053&q=robert+wright]

Invited and welcome!

Hey gwann, thanks for the promote, but Roe killed it, due to Grouper's funky system....the viddy played, and then after the Yorkshire airlines but, grouper continues to load viddies at random and the thing just plays and plays.....Roe killed the post, so feel free to find another and post it.....I'd ask James Roe to give you another promote.......
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/180/407408689_dc81556b66_m.jpg
dead....no promote needed.....I'm about to resurrect it......

I sympathize with your frustration. A battle of wits can be exhausting when your opponent is unarmed.

In reply to your comment:
“I can't be bothered arguing with you - you've not listened to anything that I have said - you are not interested in dialogue or communication - you seek to abuse rather than to understand - you preach intolerance and hatred - you promote stereotypes and simplicity - etc. etc.

While an intolerant minority seek to divide the world, the rest of us - be we Christian, Muslim, Jewish, Hindu, Atheist, Buddhist, etc. - seek to work together to promote pluralism and tolerance.”

Thanks, I stumbled on it while browsing for posts for your collective.

In reply to your comment:
“Mate - great post! This was in my list of things to post!”

Thank You, Gwaan! I was hoping someone would find that.

Sc

In reply to your comment:
“I thought I should *promote this in remembrance of the first President of the Russian Federation and one hell of a funky dancer!!!”

Hi Gwaan, your Once Upon A Time In Iran Sift is dead (again!)...but there's a replacement here: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-6922232052494018462