>> ^Shepppard:

Woah woah woah, say what you will about religion.

Don't fuck with Santa.


Hell yeah. All I ever got from Jesus was some crappy tasteless wafers and some watered down wine.

Santa got me a Millenium Falcon!

Santa > Jesus/Buddha/Allah/FSM

And for god's sake, don't make heroes out of warlocks people!.....oh what's that? Moses parted the Red Sea with his hands and staff?.....Jesus was at a drinking party and turned water into wine?.... And he raised some guy Lazarus from the dead?....And he actually walked on top of water?....well, those don't count as warlock deeds. They're in the bible.

Climbing up on Solsbury Hill
I could see the city light
Wind was blowing, time stood still
Eagle flew out of the night
He was something to observe
Came in close, I heard a voice
Standing stretching every nerve
Had to listen had no choice
I did not believe the information
I just had to trust imagination
My heart going boom boom boom
"Son," he said "Grab your things,
I've come to take you home."

To keep in silence I resigned
My friends would think I was a nut
Turning water into wine
Open doors would soon be shut
So I went from day to day
Tho' my life was in a rut
"Till I thought of what I'd say
Which connection I should cut
I was feeling part of the scenery
I walked right out of the machinery
My heart going boom boom boom
"Hey" he said "Grab your things
I've come to take you home."
(Back home.)

When illusion spin her net
I'm never where I want to be
And liberty she pirouette
When I think that I am free
Watched by empty silhouettes
Who close their eyes but still can see
No one taught them etiquette
I will show another me
Today I don't need a replacement
I'll tell them what the smile on my face meant
My heart going boom boom boom
"Hey" I said "You can keep my things,
They've come to take me home."

>> ^youmakekittymad
1) the idea of the physical being inferior to the point of being "evil" is an Eastern religious/philosophical one, not Hellenic. Greek philosophy, if one takes Plato as representative of the entirety of that school, only held that perfection was not possible in the physical, but that is not a moral judgment. Ancient Hellenic religious traditions held that the gods were full of the same imperfections as humanity.
2) you would be hard-pressed to find a Christian dogma that holds that the dead are given new PHYSICAL bodies in the afterlife. if one takes their doctrine directly from the bible, hell is described as being a place away from the sight of god and without his grace, which is supposed to be eternal torment. being given a physical body in heaven would actually run contrary to christian teaching since it would allow for physical pleasures - which are generally deemed as base and even sinful on earth - in the afterlife.
which leads me to
3) presenting the miracles jesus is said to have performed in the healing of the sick as evidence for his divinity or the historicity of his person does not help your case a whit as that is one of the major points AGAINST his alleged divinity. it is a well-known problem in christian theology that while jesus taught that the earthly was base and that the afterlife he would create for all mankind was idyllic beyond description, he went to endless trouble to heal the sick and even went so far as resurrecting the dead. attempts to resolve this have only caused further arguments over the fate of lazarus after his resurrection and whether life of the soul after death would be granted, retroactively, to those who had lived before the time of jesus.
all of which is merely to say: sit down. your interpretation of christian doctrine of the afterlife is, at least, equally as made up. Hitchens merely has the edge on you of having his being scripturally correct.


1)I stand corrected. However, even Platonism is dualistic in nature - saying that there is a separation of the ideal/spiritual and the physical/material. My point is simply that this is not a Biblical idea.

2)Ummm, no. Catholics and most Protestants would agree that they ARE given physical bodies. Otherwise, Christians wouldn't call it Resurrection. Christian teaching never says that physical pleasures are evil. Rather, Christian teaching says that sin is a perversion or twisting of what God designed to be good. Contrary to popular mythology, even the Puritans respected a healthy sexuality. If any of them were having marital problems their first question was always "Are you having enough sex?" Christianity would say it becomes sinful when taken outside of marriage because that takes it out of God's intended design, but otherwise go have fun with it. Jesus' first miracle was turning water into wine at a wedding. He was often criticized by the Pharisees and religious community because he would go to parties, feasts, and the kinds of people he associated with.

3)Jesus never taught that the earthly was base. Again, earth was very important. Why else would God have created the earth and humanity and then declared it good in Genesis? Why else would Jesus come as a man? One of the fundamental doctrines in Christianity is that Jesus was fully God and fully man. This means that there is NO problem with the sicked being healed, but instead reinforces the idea that the physical IS important.

I really don't know where you're getting these ideas of what Christians believe, but they're very far off. As for Hitchens being scripturally correct, I just watched the video again and he doesn't quote it even once. Instead, he makes generalizations about things the Bible never says. He also misquotes C.S. Lewis.

If water became wine, I wonder what beer used to be.

Not that the words make a whole lot of sense, but here ya go:

http://lyricwiki.org/R.E.M.:Swan_Swan_H

Swan, swan, hummingbird, hurrah
We are all free now
What noisy cats are we
Girl and dog, he bore his cross

Swan, swan, hummingbird, hurrah
We are all free now
A long, low time ago
People talk to me

Johnny Reb, what's the price of fans
Forty apiece or three for one dollar
Hey, captain, don't you want to buy
Some bone chains and toothpicks

Night wings, or hair chains?
Here's your wooden greenback, sing
Wooden beams and dovetail sweep
I struck that picture ninety times

I walked that path a hundred ninety
Long, low time ago
People talk to me

A pistol hot, cup of rhyme
The whiskey is water, the water is wine
Marching feet, Johnny Reb
What's the price of heroes?

Six and one, half dozen the other
Tell that to the captain's mother
Hey, captain, don't you want to buy
Some bone chains and toothpicks?

Night wings, or hair chains?
Swan, swan, hummingbird, hurrah
We are all free now
What noisy cats are we

Long, low time ago, people talk to me
A pistol hot cup of rhyme
The whiskey is water, the water is wine

>> ^Fade:
If someone can pull in the bible and jesus I'm totally pulling 911 into this one.
We only have anecdotal evidence for 911, give me rigorous scientific evidence or give me death1#!!!"!"


Wait what? you're comparing stories of Jesus turning water into wine with terrorists crashing a planes into the world trade center on national television?

Do you even know what "anecdote" means?

MAGIC IS REAL! LOL

A dude with magical powers came to Earth from out of the clouds. Some red dude with big horns lives underground and is 'evil'. Snakes can talk. Angels (fairies?) are REAL. Jesus can walk on water. Moses parted the waters and can summon forth holy pillars of fire to stave off his enemies. Jesus can turn water into wine (I thought it was lead into gold.. but whatever).

So.. who's view on reality is more screwed up? An Atheists or a Christians?

My flavor of Christianity(tm) is better than yours! DIE INFIDEL!
No! My flavor of Christianity(tm) is better than yours! DIE HEATHEN!

Well... secular science/medicine helps those dudes live beyond 25. So there. Who has magical powers now?

Get over it. Magic is not real. You can't walk on water. Some dude did NOT turn water into wine. Snakes cannot talk. The flood NEVER happened (where the frack did all the water drain to if the entire earth was inundated?). The Dinosaurs lived millions of years ago, not a few thousand. Your book of god was written by a various politically repressed guys wearing burlap sacks for clothing with nothing more to hope for than making their wild fairytales come true.

Rivers don't run with blood. First born males were not taken by a magical dark cloud. Some idiot did not part the waters and summon forth a column of fire to single handedly drive away the infidel from the 'saved people'.

Magic is not real. Get over it. My shit stinks just as bad as yours.

If you were intelligently designed, would your happy fun play-place be the very same place as your sewer system? Yeah. Good job designing that one turd for brains.

thank goodness the owner of this cat rescued it from paralysis.

i would like to invite this person to my next party to turn water into wine for me. i'm thrifty, see.

I've ignored all of you so far, including the topic of discussion, therefore I would just like to state that I, KARaidl, find snicker doodle cookies to be sufficiently more delectable than cinnamon cookies.

Also, anybody wonder why Jesus gets all the attention? I mean, Moses got all the kickass powers. Jesus walks on water, Moses parts the waters. Jesus turns water into wine, Moses summons plague upon plague of locusts and frogs on an entire city. Jesus feeds dozens of people with just a couple of fish and some bread, Moses sends out a spirit to kill hundreds of innocent young boys. Even the Bible needs a badass.

As long as people naively believe in winged people, talking snakes, and magic men that can turn water to wine, they'll surely easily fall for 'snake oil salesmen'.

Flying people are real. Snakes talk. Jesus reappeared in NY. People can turn water to wine and walk on water. Magic is real.

upvote for the water into wine ,other than that, this stinks of jockstraps

Its just craig christ, Jesus' brother.

Because when Craig's in sight,
We'll party all damn night.
I don't turn water into wine,
But into cold Coors Light.
I'm not my brother, I know,
Don't walk on H2O,
But I got hydroponic shit that me and Judas grow.