Let me take a moment to let the scotch settle in. So many things have happened to me. I honestly forget some of it.

I'm no secret agent. I'm not rightly sure what a good life is as opposed to a bad life.

Watched "My Dinner with Andre" recently and loved it. Wallace Shawn has got my vote.

Finished "Off the Road" by Carolyn Cassady yesterday, felt a little sad afterwards, knowing that I could never read that book for the first time again.

And you? How are you my dear?

In reply to this comment by peggedbea:
bored. tell stories.

Oh wow...

http://www.videosift.com/video/Shawn-Johnson-Ortega-makes-my-taco-pop

>> ^Winstonfield_Pennypacker:

It is all well and good to belly ache about the ‘hardline Isreali stance’. But to completely ignore that the hardline Arab stance is FAR more extremist does nothing to advance this discussion. Until the Arab world is willing to go on the record and acknowledge Isreal as an official Jewish state then there is really nothing to discuss at all. If they can’t even bring themselves to allow Isreal to EXIST then this whole issue is pointless. There can be no peace when the hardline Arab position is so extreme. And you know what? That ISN'T Isreal's fault.


I think you missed his point or perhaps I see it just a little bit different. I think you were blinded in your desire to defend Israeli or attack the surrounding Arab nations. *shrug* We all tend to jump to conclusions once in a while.

It seems to me that he is describing the Israeli hardliner stance and why American politicians are incorrect for strongly supporting the hardliners.

You only took away the first part of the point and seem to moved on to a response of "well what about the Arabs!?!?" - without recognizing that the explanation portion is only the reasoning for why he believes the American politicians are doing more harm than good by supporting the Israeli hardliners.

Or at least that is the way I see it.

>> ^gwiz665:
>> ^alizarin:
His main argument is based on the 34th Rule of Acquisition.

There's a rule 34?


PUH-lease.. im only dignifying that with a response so that no one else has to!

You're wellllllllcome!


"rule 76: Every once in a while, declare peace. It confuses the hell out of your enemies. "

Oh wow. I just assumed "Shawn Johnson" was some fictional gymnast they made up. It's a bit fucked up when it's a real girl, who may not have completely monstrous parents. Though certainly the people behind the gymnastics and horse racing industries deserve this sort of ridicule.

>> ^Winstonfield_Pennypacker:
Did you even watch the video?
Is this a rhetorical question? Yes, I saw the whole video. And no, I still don't understand how Isreal asking to be acknowledged as a Jewish State by the Arab world could possibly be anything except a the most basic, logical, reasonable request in the history of diplomacy. It is the equivalent of asking, "We request that you admit Jews are human and deserve to live."


But it is since a good portion of Israelis are not jewish

>> ^Winstonfield_Pennypacker: The real problem is the fact that Isreal is making a VERY simple request. "Accept Isreal as a Jewish State".

Did you even watch the video? Both sides need to expand their perspectives, both sides need to take responsiblity and both sides need to be willing to take steps to fix the situation.

Oh yeah, and the people with nukes, attack choppers, artillery, tanks and white phosphorous should probably stop taking cheap shots at the people bottled up in the worlds largest concentration camp with nothing more than assault rifles and the occasional RPG. It's like watching Mike Tyson beat up a kid in a wheelchair.

>> ^alizarin:
His main argument is based on the 34th Rule of Acquisition.


There's a rule 34?

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>> ^ponceleon:
How is it not about religion? The entire region hinges on who's magical guy in the sky is "right."


If you take Bill Maher's word for it. But come see for yourself. Most Israelis are secular, and other than celebrating the holidays and not working on Sabbath, have little to do with religion. While the government does have religious representatives they are a minority as they are in the populace, and while the army does have officers in charge of religion, they are there only to supply religion services (to non-Jews, as well, BTW).
I know less of the Palestinian side, but I imagine that Hamas draws strength from the living conditions in the occupied territories to a greater degree than it does from religion (and naturally religion draws strength from the same). One example for this is the perception of Hamas as less corrupt than Fatah (which was discussed here a while ago), which becomes critical when resources going into the territories are limited.

At the very least, I must believe that the main issues in this conflict are practical in nature. Any other option would mean there is no solution to the conflict. The majority of the population in Israel (that is, the secular population) is raised to think otherwise.

Obviously things are a bit more complex, but the general idea remains.

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While Shawn/Vecini/Zek did a fine job describing the hard-line Isreali side of the debate, he did VERY little to describe the hard-line Arab position the Isrealis are forced to deal with.

Whether you think the 'world' should have given the Jews Isreal after World War 2 or not is academic. What is done is done and Isreal - for better or for worse - is there to stay. No amount of hand-wringing, moaning, and bellyaching is going to change that fact. Unless you subscribe to the need for a second holocaust then Isreal as a Jewish State is an immutable reality that must be accepted.

The REAL problem here is not Isreali 'lopsided responses' when attacked. The real problem is the fact that Isreal is making a VERY simple request. "Accept Isreal as a Jewish State". And that simple request is flatly rejected by Palestine, Iran, Egypt, and pretty much every player in the game. I mean, get real. Isreal could respond to Arab attacks by lobbing kittens, cottonballs, and dryer lint and they'd still get massive hate for it.

It is all well and good to belly ache about the ‘hardline Isreali stance’. But to completely ignore that the hardline Arab stance is FAR more extremist does nothing to advance this discussion. Until the Arab world is willing to go on the record and acknowledge Isreal as an official Jewish state then there is really nothing to discuss at all. If they can’t even bring themselves to allow Isreal to EXIST then this whole issue is pointless. There can be no peace when the hardline Arab position is so extreme. And you know what? That ISN'T Isreal's fault.

Hehe, I lawled

In reply to this comment by supersaiyan93:
>> ^ponceleon:
It is all kind of awesome that
A) everyone recognized the quote immediately
B) no comments about the actual topic


C) Everyone is pissed at ponceleon for beating us to the punch.