>> ^RhesusMonk:
>> ^SaNdMaN:
But how can he be so confident that this would work? It seems like one of those things that would not work on everyone. What if he does the trick and it fails on live TV?

This is called Neurolinguistc Programming (NLP) and is based strongly in Gestalt psychology and a huge amount of statistical data produced in the 1970s and 80s concerning how human brains associate speech, concepts and sensations and what the testable results of those associations are. The actual origin of the phenomenon/heuristic is fascinating (literally a combination of psychology and math), and is a must-read for people interested in how humans influence and are influenced. For a long time it was used as a kind of quick-fix psychotherapy a la behavioral modification in clinical settings (patients would be imparted with associations of sensation and cognition without conscious awareness in order to relieve symptoms). These days, it's used in board rooms and at card tables as well. Not all of it works all the time, but unless you're performing tricks for an audience, no one is even going to know you're trying, so failure looks the same as doing nothing at all. Derren Brown is not just a practitioner of this art, he is a major contributing pioneer; he is, as he mentioned, aware of the risks of failure, and he has even stated that this awareness, imparted to his subjects, is immensely influential in getting the tricks to succeed.


I'm aware that it's NPL, but NPL doesn't work with everyone, just like hypnosis doesn't work with everyone. Yet he supposedly uses this technique in situations where he can't afford for it not to work. That's why I think he's using some other trick and just says that it's NLP.

>> ^SaNdMaN:
But how can he be so confident that this would work? It seems like one of those things that would not work on everyone. What if he does the trick and it fails on live TV?


This is called Neurolinguistc Programming (NLP) and is based strongly in Gestalt psychology and a huge amount of statistical data produced in the 1970s and 80s concerning how human brains associate speech, concepts and sensations and what the testable results of those associations are. The actual origin of the phenomenon/heuristic is fascinating (literally a combination of psychology and math), and is a must-read for people interested in how humans influence and are influenced. For a long time it was used as a kind of quick-fix psychotherapy a la behavioral modification in clinical settings (patients would be imparted with associations of sensation and cognition without conscious awareness in order to relieve symptoms). These days, it's used in board rooms and at card tables as well. Not all of it works all the time, but unless you're performing tricks for an audience, no one is even going to know you're trying, so failure looks the same as doing nothing at all. Derren Brown is not just a practitioner of this art, he is a major contributing pioneer; he is, as he mentioned, aware of the risks of failure, and he has even stated that this awareness, imparted to his subjects, is immensely influential in getting the tricks to succeed.

>> ^SaNdMaN:
What the hell is "PSA"?


Public Service Announcement

yeah don't worry dude i am not criticising, and yes american is definitely not a race, especially if you are going to say a race is defined by a consistent skin colour, white, black or asian...
it just gets more tricky when you start trying to include other things like "hispanic" as a race... i recommend the christopher walken speech in true romance
and don't get a lithuanian started on "balto-slavic".

anyway it's only really a problem if you start saying one race is better than another. except we all know black guys are good at running...

In reply to this comment by SaNdMaN:
Well, yes, it depends on the context of course. In some ways I consider myself a Russian and in some ways an American. But the fact remains that those aren't races, which is what our argument was about. My race is white or caucasian.

In reply to this comment by MINK:
Well it's funny because you are calling yourself Russian but not living in Russia, which was kind of my point.

It's a personal thing what you call yourself in this mixed up global community, i just find it interesting.

When people ask me where I am from, I say something like "vilnius, born in UK".
When people ask me if i am english I say something like "I am a vilniusian but i have a british passport".

I find it easier to tie my identity to the historically cosmopolitan city of vilnius, not the nation of lithuania (which is a joke) or the nation of the UK (which is also a joke and I really would rather not be associated with it too much). I have lived in Vilnius for 5 years so, i am british by birth only, english by language only. If you wanna invade Vilnius, I might consider defending it. If you wanna invade the UK, be my freaking guest.

Hope that's at least a little bit interesting



In reply to this comment by SaNdMaN:
Um, I guess you could say that. Why is that so hilarious though?

In reply to this comment by MINK:
Hahahahahaha classic
so you're a bloody yank!



In reply to this comment by SaNdMaN:
Oh, I'm in the US. Since '94. Moved from Moscow when I was 12.

In reply to this comment by MINK:

Anyway, where in Russia are you? I still haven't visited... but I would love to go make some music over there...

Well, yes, it depends on the context of course. In some ways I consider myself a Russian and in some ways an American. But the fact remains that those aren't races, which is what our argument was about. My race is white or caucasian.

In reply to this comment by MINK:
Well it's funny because you are calling yourself Russian but not living in Russia, which was kind of my point.

It's a personal thing what you call yourself in this mixed up global community, i just find it interesting.

When people ask me where I am from, I say something like "vilnius, born in UK".
When people ask me if i am english I say something like "I am a vilniusian but i have a british passport".

I find it easier to tie my identity to the historically cosmopolitan city of vilnius, not the nation of lithuania (which is a joke) or the nation of the UK (which is also a joke and I really would rather not be associated with it too much). I have lived in Vilnius for 5 years so, i am british by birth only, english by language only. If you wanna invade Vilnius, I might consider defending it. If you wanna invade the UK, be my freaking guest.

Hope that's at least a little bit interesting



In reply to this comment by SaNdMaN:
Um, I guess you could say that. Why is that so hilarious though?

In reply to this comment by MINK:
Hahahahahaha classic
so you're a bloody yank!



In reply to this comment by SaNdMaN:
Oh, I'm in the US. Since '94. Moved from Moscow when I was 12.

In reply to this comment by MINK:

Anyway, where in Russia are you? I still haven't visited... but I would love to go make some music over there...

Well it's funny because you are calling yourself Russian but not living in Russia, which was kind of my point.

It's a personal thing what you call yourself in this mixed up global community, i just find it interesting.

When people ask me where I am from, I say something like "vilnius, born in UK".
When people ask me if i am english I say something like "I am a vilniusian but i have a british passport".

I find it easier to tie my identity to the historically cosmopolitan city of vilnius, not the nation of lithuania (which is a joke) or the nation of the UK (which is also a joke and I really would rather not be associated with it too much). I have lived in Vilnius for 5 years so, i am british by birth only, english by language only. If you wanna invade Vilnius, I might consider defending it. If you wanna invade the UK, be my freaking guest.

Hope that's at least a little bit interesting



In reply to this comment by SaNdMaN:
Um, I guess you could say that. Why is that so hilarious though?

In reply to this comment by MINK:
Hahahahahaha classic
so you're a bloody yank!



In reply to this comment by SaNdMaN:
Oh, I'm in the US. Since '94. Moved from Moscow when I was 12.

In reply to this comment by MINK:

Anyway, where in Russia are you? I still haven't visited... but I would love to go make some music over there...

Um, I guess you could say that. Why is that so hilarious though?

In reply to this comment by MINK:
Hahahahahaha classic
so you're a bloody yank!



In reply to this comment by SaNdMaN:
Oh, I'm in the US. Since '94. Moved from Moscow when I was 12.

In reply to this comment by MINK:

Anyway, where in Russia are you? I still haven't visited... but I would love to go make some music over there...

Hahahahahaha classic
so you're a bloody yank!



In reply to this comment by SaNdMaN:
Oh, I'm in the US. Since '94. Moved from Moscow when I was 12.

In reply to this comment by MINK:

Anyway, where in Russia are you? I still haven't visited... but I would love to go make some music over there...

Oh, I'm in the US. Since '94. Moved from Moscow when I was 12.

In reply to this comment by MINK:

Anyway, where in Russia are you? I still haven't visited... but I would love to go make some music over there...

And I have the honour of sleeping with one. But her family has been in Lithuania for years and her grandmother was in Poland. They're Old Believers. So technically their state rejected them hundreds of years ago and they STILL call themselves Russian... it's a blood thing not a national thing, but they use the name of the nation to describe the blood. As an "englishman" i kinda accept that all blood is mixed anyway.

Anyway, where in Russia are you? I still haven't visited... but I would love to go make some music over there...



In reply to this comment by SaNdMaN:
Well, I agree with that of course. I'm Russian.

In reply to this comment by MINK:
we're just arguing about the definition of "race" which is like... incredibly arguable.

main thing is, you shouldn't think it's ok to laugh at videos of russian stupidity as if it's genetic.


In reply to this comment by SaNdMaN:
It's a nationality and an ethnicity ("a group of human beings whose members identify with each other, through a common heritage that is real or presumed"). It's certainly not a race, just like French or German is not a race.

In reply to this comment by MINK:
privyet

let's just say russians consider themselves to be a race more than anglosaxons do. we're all the human race if you want to get strict about it.

and the kind of insults russians get are more racial than national... meaning they are more about insulting some kind of genetic stupidity of "the russians" rather than talking about the state of russia.

fourth generation russian emigrants in lithuania still call themselves Russian and don't intermarry. That's... kinda racially minded.




In reply to this comment by SaNdMaN:
>> ^MINK:
maybe mintbbb should fix the title, and everyone who thinks it's ok to be racist about russians should check their attitude.


"Russian" isn't a race.

Well, I agree with that of course. I'm Russian.

In reply to this comment by MINK:
we're just arguing about the definition of "race" which is like... incredibly arguable.

main thing is, you shouldn't think it's ok to laugh at videos of russian stupidity as if it's genetic.


In reply to this comment by SaNdMaN:
It's a nationality and an ethnicity ("a group of human beings whose members identify with each other, through a common heritage that is real or presumed"). It's certainly not a race, just like French or German is not a race.

In reply to this comment by MINK:
privyet

let's just say russians consider themselves to be a race more than anglosaxons do. we're all the human race if you want to get strict about it.

and the kind of insults russians get are more racial than national... meaning they are more about insulting some kind of genetic stupidity of "the russians" rather than talking about the state of russia.

fourth generation russian emigrants in lithuania still call themselves Russian and don't intermarry. That's... kinda racially minded.




In reply to this comment by SaNdMaN:
>> ^MINK:
maybe mintbbb should fix the title, and everyone who thinks it's ok to be racist about russians should check their attitude.


"Russian" isn't a race.

we're just arguing about the definition of "race" which is like... incredibly arguable.

main thing is, you shouldn't think it's ok to laugh at videos of russian stupidity as if it's genetic.


In reply to this comment by SaNdMaN:
It's a nationality and an ethnicity ("a group of human beings whose members identify with each other, through a common heritage that is real or presumed"). It's certainly not a race, just like French or German is not a race.

In reply to this comment by MINK:
privyet

let's just say russians consider themselves to be a race more than anglosaxons do. we're all the human race if you want to get strict about it.

and the kind of insults russians get are more racial than national... meaning they are more about insulting some kind of genetic stupidity of "the russians" rather than talking about the state of russia.

fourth generation russian emigrants in lithuania still call themselves Russian and don't intermarry. That's... kinda racially minded.




In reply to this comment by SaNdMaN:
>> ^MINK:
maybe mintbbb should fix the title, and everyone who thinks it's ok to be racist about russians should check their attitude.


"Russian" isn't a race.

It's a nationality and an ethnicity ("a group of human beings whose members identify with each other, through a common heritage that is real or presumed"). It's certainly not a race, just like French or German is not a race.

In reply to this comment by MINK:
privyet

let's just say russians consider themselves to be a race more than anglosaxons do. we're all the human race if you want to get strict about it.

and the kind of insults russians get are more racial than national... meaning they are more about insulting some kind of genetic stupidity of "the russians" rather than talking about the state of russia.

fourth generation russian emigrants in lithuania still call themselves Russian and don't intermarry. That's... kinda racially minded.




In reply to this comment by SaNdMaN:
>> ^MINK:
maybe mintbbb should fix the title, and everyone who thinks it's ok to be racist about russians should check their attitude.


"Russian" isn't a race.

privyet

let's just say russians consider themselves to be a race more than anglosaxons do. we're all the human race if you want to get strict about it.

and the kind of insults russians get are more racial than national... meaning they are more about insulting some kind of genetic stupidity of "the russians" rather than talking about the state of russia.

fourth generation russian emigrants in lithuania still call themselves Russian and don't intermarry. That's... kinda racially minded.




In reply to this comment by SaNdMaN:
>> ^MINK:
maybe mintbbb should fix the title, and everyone who thinks it's ok to be racist about russians should check their attitude.


"Russian" isn't a race.

>> ^SaNdMaN:

"Russian" isn't a race.


OH YEAH I SEE YOUR POINT.