Ai, ai, ai! So many!>> ^jonny:

You forgot French, Iroquois, Mexican, Cuban, Malay, Korean, Panamanian, Venezuelan, Columbian, African but oddly not Afrikaner, ... and don't forget Poland! oh... actually, I guess we never really hated them. But really, no one can forget how we hated Ourselves.
>> ^Fusionaut:
First, Americans were afraid of the British, then the Natives, then the British again, then other Americans, after that the Africans, then the Spanish, then the African-Americans, then the Germans, then the African-Americans, then the Germans and the Japanese, then the Russians, then other Americans (Commies/Atheists), then the Vietcong, then the Russians again, then the Iraqis, then the Iranians, then the Al Qaeda, then the Iraqis again, then other Americans again (TSA), and NOW they're afraid of losing electricity. (I may be missing some groups and this list may be out of sequence)
P.S. oh yeah, don't forget Muslims!

You forgot French, Iroquois, Mexican, Cuban, Malay, Korean, Panamanian, Venezuelan, Columbian, African but oddly not Afrikaner, ... and don't forget Poland! oh... actually, I guess we never really hated them. But really, no one can forget how we hated Ourselves.

>> ^Fusionaut:

First, Americans were afraid of the British, then the Natives, then the British again, then other Americans, after that the Africans, then the Spanish, then the African-Americans, then the Germans, then the African-Americans, then the Germans and the Japanese, then the Russians, then other Americans (Commies/Atheists), then the Vietcong, then the Russians again, then the Iraqis, then the Iranians, then the Al Qaeda, then the Iraqis again, then other Americans again (TSA), and NOW they're afraid of losing electricity. (I may be missing some groups and this list may be out of sequence)
P.S. oh yeah, don't forget Muslims!

First, Americans were afraid of the British, then the Natives, then the British again, then other Americans, after that the Africans, then the Spanish, then the African-Americans, then the Germans, then the African-Americans, then the Germans and the Japanese, then the Russians, then other Americans (Commies/Atheists), then the Vietcong, then the Russians again, then the Iraqis, then the Iranians, then the Al Qaeda, then the Iraqis again, then other Americans again (TSA), and NOW they're afraid of losing electricity. (I may be missing some groups and this list may be out of sequence)

P.S. oh yeah, don't forget Muslims!

fixed now
In reply to this comment by Nebosuke:
*dead

OH MY GOD A PERIMETER FENCE ! DO THE IRANIANS HAVE CNN? OMG WTF!

>> ^criticalthud:

ummm, from a propaganda standpoint, there are some corollaries for sure.
But, let's look at some geopolitics.
In a world of diminishing resources, Iran is sitting on some of the largest oil reserves.
Israel, on the other hand, is sitting on a piece of worthless desert called the holy land and depends on foreign oil imports and American Aid. That American aid is also highly dependent on the US continuing to essentially control the oil trade. Oil is traded in dollars, and it is that massive circulation that helps keep the American dollar afloat (each dollar is HIGHLY leveraged (ie: debt)).
So who wants what? Religious crazies aside, from a geo-political standpoint Israel has very little to offer Iran, but control or influence over Iran's oil reserves has quite a bit to offer Israel.
Now...why would Iran want to have a nuclear energy program when it has vast oil reserves?
-- just like Venezuela, who is limiting the amount they produce, if they can use less of their oil now, in a world of diminishing energy resources, it means that in the future they wield more and more geo-political power. And energy is wealth. The more they control their own resources, the more they can control price points of resources, which is a large part of how the world powers have become world powers.


Your armchair analysis is pretty thin.

One of your main premises is about how Israel occupies a bunch of 'worthless desert'? And you then believe that is a strong driver in Israel's interest in Iranian oil reserves?

Middle East politics goes a lot deeper than that. The 'worthless desert' Israel occupies is BAR NONE the most sought after and fought over piece of land in the entire middle east over the last century. You can not ignore the importance of the cultural and religious pressures in the region that make up the complex relationship between Israel-Iran-Saudi-Syria-Egypt-... and on and on.

Survival is still Israel's driving focus. Iran openly and proudly supports Hezbollah and Hamas and their attacks on Israel. If Israel even suspects that Iran is developing nuclear weapons, that is a very short path to a very legitimate concern for Israel to be taking very seriously. Sure, it's 90% likely that Iran isn't foolish enough to give a nuclear weapon to Hamas or Hezbollah, but that remaining 10% is still understandable enough cause for Israel to be nervous and considering their options.

given that even lesser "offenses" to Irans cultural sensibilities have caused nearly as much backlash to other Iranian artists around the world, I have to wonder if she wasn't already aware of the risk and prepared for any such drastic consequences.

Still sucks though. I like Iran. I wish we could all get along.

QM, Mossadegh's effort to nationalize his nation's oil was not a threat to the United States. For one, they were not doing it to make a political point against any government; so, the Iranians had no interest in withholding oil from any customers. What they wanted were the revenues and profits from the oil coming out of their own land; which would have hurt British interests, or more specifically, the precursor to BP. The US got involved because of cold war ideology. Also, our governments were not in conflict at the time; Mossadegh even visited the states at least once.

Your proposition that they would have eventually overthrown Mossadegh is faulty on a number of points. First of all, Mossadegh was an elderly man who could not have lasted a couple of decades. Secondly, he was a prime minister in a democracy with many thriving factions. Like in all democracies, his administration would have eventually been voted out. Also, the Islamic fundies in Iran developed as a direct result of the Shah's brutality. The Persians had one of the richest, intellectual and tolerant cultures in the region, beforehand, IMO. If their democracy had had a chance to mature and thrive, they could have been a major positive force in the region. Why would people in possession of wealth and democracy overthrow their own government?

It's a very interesting story, documented in the book All the Shah's Men, if you are interested in learning more.

>> ^quantumushroom:

@ChaosEngine Thank you for your more civil tone of late. Am I surprised that someone reached for the mouse to downvote MY comment while ignoring THIS?

Stukafox: There's only two kinds of Republicans: Corporate tools and complete psychopaths.

The Blame America First mindset is very real. It's taught in our public schools government indoctrination centers from K thru kollij. "Anarchist" Gnome Chompsky has made millions off this bizarre worldview, which glibly ignores the 100 million murdered by communist regimes and the defeat of fascism (and rebuilding of Europe) by the United States.
As for the charge of US meddling in Iran, the reality is we have interests around the world, things we want to buy and nations that want to sell. Glancing at wikipedia: when the elected government nationalized the Iranian oil industry, that was a threat to both Britain and the US.
Yeah, the Shah was an a-hole, but he was replaced with an even bigger a-hole, an islamic fundie. So instead of utopian perfection, we had an evil replaced with a greater evil. (And who's to say had Prime Minister Mosaddegh kept power through the 1970s, he wouldn't have been overthrown by Khomeini anyway)?
There is not any one era when international relations was superior and reasonable, just brief burps where there was an odd peace.
If you want to celebrate red china for "putting America in its place" like our idiot excuse of a president does, you better damned well understand what you're favoring: a ruthless communist regime that kills people as easily as you throw away coat hangers.

@ChaosEngine Thank you for your more civil tone of late. Am I surprised that someone reached for the mouse to downvote MY comment while ignoring THIS?

Stukafox: There's only two kinds of Republicans: Corporate tools and complete psychopaths.

The Blame America First mindset is very real. It's taught in our public schools government indoctrination centers from K thru kollij. "Anarchist" Gnome Chompsky has made millions off this bizarre worldview, which glibly ignores the 100 million murdered by communist regimes and the defeat of fascism (and rebuilding of Europe) by the United States.

As for the charge of US meddling in Iran, the reality is we have interests around the world, things we want to buy and nations that want to sell. Glancing at wikipedia: when the elected government nationalized the Iranian oil industry, that was a threat to both Britain and the US.

Yeah, the Shah was an a-hole, but he was replaced with an even bigger a-hole, an islamic fundie. So instead of utopian perfection, we had an evil replaced with a greater evil. (And who's to say had Prime Minister Mosaddegh kept power through the 1970s, he wouldn't have been overthrown by Khomeini anyway)?

There is not any one era when international relations was superior and reasonable, just brief burps where there was an odd peace.

If you want to celebrate red china for "putting America in its place" like our idiot excuse of a president does, you better damned well understand what you're favoring: a ruthless communist regime that kills people as easily as you throw away coat hangers.

How many Iranians will die so that Cenk can avoid having very indirectly supported offensive newsletters? How many more will die in the continued drug wars so his hands can be clean? He disgusts me.

Magnetic sticky bombs from a speeding motorcycle? This sounds like that Arsehole James bond. He does shit like this! Its been exposed recently in song. Maybe the Brits pulled this job on orders from the U.S and Isreal. Makes more sense than a false flag operation by the Evil Iranians themselves.

>> ^GenjiKilpatrick:

Or, or... it could have been YOU @Morganth.
That's right, maybe you assassinated those scientists in order to make it LOOK like Iran had publicly assassinated it's own leading scientists..
All so you could type out that sssstupid ass comment. .. -_-

"Yes Sanjar, I'm aware that assassinating our own scientists would greatly setback our research and development, diminish our global power and is all around generally non-sensical..
..But that's why it's just- crazy- enough- to work!! MWahahahahah-" cough


Um, that isn't what he suggested - he suggested that they were killed prior to them releasing information about the iranian government and whatever's happening there.

Could it be anyone else? Yeah, actually. It could be Iran. What if these guys were planning on speaking out against what was going on there? What better way to bolster Iranian politics that take these guys out and blame the West. Do they really think the US would be stupid enough to use a car bomb if they wanted to assassinate someone?

The people of Iran are not our enemy, Their government is pretty darn sketchy, But so is mine. My government has been fucking with Iranian politics for over 60 years, It we would be best for everybody if we just butted-out for once.

Ron Paul for Prez!

Wait, didn't we invade Iraq to curb Saddam's destructive ambitions and keep his WMDs out of terrorist hands. Wait, didn't we fight in Iraq in order to expel the Al Qaeda operatives that had flocked to Iraq due to our involvement there. Wait, since when are we fighting in Iraq to counter Iranian influence in the region.

I'm very certain I've missed quite a few shifts in the vindicating rhetoric on our involvement there. You can write whatever boogieman you need into that country and for certain people, that war would never end.