Hamas has broken 3 peace agreements and also ignore warning from ISRAEL that they will bomb the schools/ hospitals and anywhere else Hamas keeps their missiles.

ISRAEL sends out warnings and Hamas keeps children in place as political ponds for media to suck it up and promote them as the good guys. They are not. They need to be killed each and every one, man woman and child. They elected terrorist leadership and now are paying for that mistake.

Nothing, but condemnation of Israel is not an endorsement of Hamas. But you already knew that (unless you're actually as fucking ignorant as you're pretending to be =).

I'd pay to see your face if you started lofting rockets in your neighbor's direction and he came over to your house and murdered your children, lol

Oh, and you are mistaken. No one said we don't care about Hamas spending money on rockets. We just care about dozens of dead children more.

I realize everyone is foaming at the mouth and positive of what happened here, but it should be noted that Israel denies hitting the hospital, and that the United Nations had not confirmed the source of the blasts.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/07/25/world/middleeast/despite-talk-of-a-cease-fire-no-lull-in-gaza-fighting.html?_r=0

Everyone wants to paint Israel like this giant monster, but things are being way overstated. Let's get serious. If Israel was embarking on a program of "ethnic cleansing" they could easily kill every last person in Gaza. Seems clear enough to anyone that this is not what they're trying to do.

If Hamas was in Mexico shooting rockets at Texas half the people shouting genocide at Israel would be wearing little yellow ribbons hoping our soldiers all come back safe from our Mexican invasion.

I have a hard time imagining, or believing, that anyone purposely bombed a hospital full of children. But I can easily believe accidents of all kinds will happen in a battleground the size of Detroit.

Actually where I mostly get my news is Noam Chomsky so I think I'm in good company. Now I have to ask, are you being paid for your posts? I think you should look into it, you could be making some money. Unlike anyone defending Palestinians. You should note I'm saying Palestinians and not Hamas.

Yes I can say wrong side of history with a straight face. The entire world wants Israel to accept a two state solution and they chose specifically to use force because they had the backing of the United States. Israel and the US have blocked peace for 40 years, and that's a fact.

Quite unlike Israel, whose various lies include first claiming the school had been hit by Hamas rockets that had fallen short, then that they were returning fire on Hamas fighters in the area, then that they had told the UNRWA to evacuate the shelter but Hamas had prevented them from leaving (so I guess they just had to bomb it anyway).

I'm conflicted... I do agree with her, there is certainly more time given to the Israelis giving out their version of what is happening, but it also seems like she's wasting her opportunity to talk about the Palestinian side of things and it's spinning into a story about the coverage and putting attention on her.

Chris Hayes is likely being honest in that it is hard to find any "official" to speak for the Palestinian side. Since it's not a unified group, the government in Gaza doesn't seem to be involved, just Hamas fighters.

I don't know enough about the situation in Palestine, or what kinds of laws are imposed from outside there, but just hypothetically, I wonder: what if they renounced all initiation of violence altogether, and just dropped the push to set up their own state? What if, instead they declared their territories to be "state-free" and "tax free havens?" Maybe they could open some casinos a la Native Americans; and provide some tax-free banking; let tech giants set up tax-free research centers there without all of the immigration restrictions that seem to impose so many unnecessary challenges.. And what if, instead of waging war or attacking Israel, they simply used any military capabilities they had to set up private security firms, and secure their banking system, maybe provide some safe gold depositories? In a generation or two, the Israelis would see that they are the ones living in a prison/tax farm, not the Palestinians. I wonder if they could get away with it...


It's interesting to me how some folks tend to (more or less) "take sides" in defense of states (or would-be states) in conflicts like this one. As if states somehow had "rights" or as if states somehow represented "the people" within each state. That is simply, prima facie, false: For one thing, I think armed conflict on any sort of large scale inflicts violence against innocent parties on both sides; who, in their own rights, have reason to see the other side's violent acts as aggression (or at least as material threats to their human rights).

So I certainly agree that Israelis have a right not to have rockets coming at them, but it also seems to me that individual Palestinians have a right not to be collateral damage in Israel's bombings. Surely the hundreds who've lost family in Gaza have reason to be angry at Hamas, but you could see why they too would want to defend themselves.

The logic of war often leads to a situation where if you can defend one side fighting, you have to see why the other side would fight as well. And so we can condemn both sides, or sympathize with the innocent victims of both sides, but I don't see any simple formulation that shows why people who happen to live on one side of an arbitrary line have more of a "right" to respond violently to attacks that threaten their lives than the other side has.

The United States commits many forms of aggression quite frequently. In revenge, terrorists murdered innocent Americans on 9/11. Those Americans had a right not to be attacked and as Americans, we have a right to defend ourselves. But if tactics our government employs hurt third parties, doesn't it seem that the logic of collective self defense could easily be used to justify perpetual war?

None of what I say relies on any assumption that Hamas is any less criminal than the Israeli state. Even if it's much more criminal than the Israeli state, it seems to me that collective defense = perpetual war, because of the innocents on both sides who seem to have no way of striking against belligerents without violence that itself puts innocent people in harm's way.

Yeah no, I'm sorry but you have a lot of this very wrong. The Gaza strip is the worlds largest open air prison. Israel has blocked peace with US support and has broken ceasefires consistently with US support for over 4 decades now.

You need to read a bit more to understand how complex this situation is. Hamas are by no means saints and they are cripplingly stupid. But there is a reason why there are dozens of votes at the UN that are every other fucking country in the world against Israel and the US. Because they're on the wrong side of history. Israel is running an apartheid state and will continue to do so as long as there's people like you who support them.

I don't applaud Hamas, I think their actions are as deplorable.

But I understand them.

Similarly, I understand the French Resistance. Or the American "terrorists" (Son's of Liberty) that started the resistance against the British which eventually led to the War of Independence... Of course, those are terrorists that we agree with because they were on the side of good. So we call them a resistance or patriots. The people they killed were obviously all evil ne'er-do-wells who deserved it, innocents were never harmed... /eyeroll

I had a good laugh at the "50% of the kids have PTSD". Oh the poor dears, perhaps their government shouldn't have zoned their houses in a fucking warzone. At least they have bomb shelters, a warning system, Iron Dome ffs...

But you'll have to remind me, where are the bomb shelters in Gaza when Israeli artillery and guided munitions come a knocking? Where's the automated missile defense system shooting down incoming strikes, or the warning system to tell people an attack is imminent? Who's supplying them with first class military equipment?

Have you ever seen one of Hamas' vaunted "rockets"? A home built, hand machined dumbfire which uses ammonium nitrate and sugar as it's propellant, and mostly low grade explosives as it's payload. No guidance, just launch and hope it hits something. Yup, it'll kill you if it lands on you, but they are weapons of desperation, not a serious threat. The 600 to 30 kill ratio at the moment speaks to that.

What's disgusting is the hypocrisy of people, who applaud the constant bombardment of Israel with missiles, and then rise up in outrage when Israel moves to defend itself.

Israel shows amazing fucking restraint for a country that had hundreds of missiles launched at it.

Hamas fired over 400 rockets at civilian population centers.

You would be singing a very different song if your home town came under constant bombardment. 50% of Israeli kids living near the Gaza Strip have post traumatic stress disorder. Fuck Hamas and the horse they rode in on.

You people who believe Hamas are just as duped as the Palestinians who believe Hamas when they teach their children to strap on suicide belts.

Fools.

I would argue it's a manifestation of the same kind of thinking. Those Israelis believe the Gazan's are simply reaping what they sowed by supporting Hamas and therefore withhold compassion. Conversely, Hamas thinks it's okay to lob rockets at Israelis because the Israelis have occupied Palestine and set up the most egregious apartheid system in history (or as the UN Humanitarian Chief John Holmes called it in 2010, the world's largest "open air prison.").

Both sides have lost compassion for the other and that's why the violence continues unabated.

You missed a few parts there...3 teens killed, Israel CLAIMS by Hamas, but Hamas never takes credit (and they love to take credit). Israel immediately bombs Palestine mercilessly AND 1 Palestinian teen kidnapped and burned alive by Israeli soldiers (there's no such thing as an Israeli civilian), AND another Palestinian teen is ACCUSED BY ISRAEL of throwing gas bombs only AFTER they are caught on tape beating and stomping the hell out of him while he's handcuffed and completely subdued. Hamas then retaliates with 1/1000 the force returned by Israel. Egypt, an enemy of Palestine, and Israel make a show of calling for a 'ceasefire' on 100% their terms without even talking to Hamas, then claims it's Hamas that won't cease. Israel continues launching more guided missiles at beaches, hospitals, and old folks homes, killing hundreds of civilians and then invades in full force, killing hundreds more, while Hamas shoots hundreds of essentially fireworks causing extremely minor damage and 1 eventual death....yet you think Hamas is the big bad guy and Israel is the poor innocent whipping boy.....Um.....just DUH.
Hamas started it IF AND ONLY IF YOU BELIEVE ONLY ISRAELI PROPAGANDA, but if you look dispassionately at the known facts, that's simply BS, Israel invaded first, shot first and continues to shoot more and more disastrously at civilians while whining 'we have to defend ourselves' (from the useless fireworks the Palestinian devils are shooting at us), which should really mean turning on the missile defense system.
What they are doing it offensive, not defensive....and I'm offended!

I know a lot more has been going on, but this is how I see it. 3 Israeli teens were taken hostage and then killed by Hamas.....1 Palestinian teen throwing gas bombs at police was arrested and beaten by the Israeli police.....Hamas launches hundreds of rockets at Israel costing Israel millions of dollars to shoot down. Egypt asks for a cease fire and Israel agrees...Hamas launches another rocket that kills an Israeli soldier....Israel starts launching there own guided missiles at suspected Hamas rocket locations.....killing 100's of Palestinians......This is how wars are started....the rest of the world is just the same.....we all are! Hamas stared it and if the Palestinians want Israel to stop maybe they should kick Hamas out....