That's called a wellfare state. Please don't be so egocentric and go on "i'll only pay and care for myself". In my opinion only folks that haven't seen bad times can think like this. Of course you pay for someone else's healthcare. What's the alternative?

What about the kid having cancer and in need of hundreds of thousands of dollars for healthcare? if you (and many many other people) don't pay for that what should happen? Let the kid die? Because he or she hadn't had the chance of earning money and to save some of it? You cannot blame all of those being in need of treatment for not being able to afford it themselves.

In Germany the healthcare is automatically deducted from income, the more you earn, the more you pay up until to a certain max level. I pay that level, i'm somewhat young, fit and haven't required expensive treatment yet. Of course i could go around and say "all that money, wasted. What if i'll never get seriously sick? What if i just die before ever requiring any of that money? wasted! i could have bought XZY of that!". And to be completely honest, sometimes things like this cross my mind, especially when i think of people forcefully and intentionally ruining their health (obesity, alcohol, smoking etc.). But again: What is the alternative? Someone has to treat those in need, and therefore money is required. If i would end up in a car accident tomorrow and suffer from a permanent paralyzation, the healthcare system would pay for my treatment, pay for the renovation of my home, pay for my loss in income, pay for my kids, pay for the physical training, for the nurses stopping by every day etc.

Where do you think that money comes from? I haven't paid millions of Euro into that system, it isn't my money. It's the money of lots of other contributors into that system. That's exactly how insurances work. Only that private insurances keep out those with a high chance of becoming one of those cases where the insurance has to pay. That's why we need a state insurance. Not all of us are rich and healthy and able to care for their own treatment. This is not Darwin, you don't go around and let people die just because you don't like "paying for the health care of others" as you state it.

You shouldn't focus on the "smaller" cases where your money pays for some flu pills of your neighbour. You should think about HIV, paralyzation, cancer etc. No matter how you look at it, it's either letting people die out of selfishness (and therefore losing all of a society's humanity by the way) or everyone pays a certain amount, dependant on what he or she can afford.

And never forget: Tomorrow it could be you who's in need of utterly expensive treatment and i'm pretty sure you would be very, very happy if doctors not just sent you away but treat you properly. Always think of who's paying for that: We all are.

>> ^imstellar28:
>> ^mauz15:
Ever heard of that thing called psychology?

You mean the social science? With like the citations, and rigorous double-blind experiments? I've heard of it, but I don't see any trace of it here; all I see is old-fashioned, egocentric mysticism in a reactionary medium.
I'm citing 500,000 years of evolutionary success; those here are content to cite old wives tales.


Yeah that one. The one that deals with things like how the brain reacts and could even change during high levels of stress, the one that studies phobias, which are very common even with our successful evolution, the one that happens to study how a kid that age is quite undeveloped and highly dependent on the parents despite the many successful adaptations the kid will learn to use and whose brain will polish as the kid grows. To bring the premise that the kid will be fine due to evolutionary excellence without considering the kid's cognitive state at that age nor any psychological factors is equivalent to speculating. I'm not saying the kid will be traumatized, most likely he won't be. But you do not know if the kid will be fine either simply because we have been successful in terms of evolution. The way the parents handle the kid's fearful experiences plays a major role too. None of this can be seen in the video so you cannot claim he will be fine, in the same way that I cannot and will not claim he will have long term damage.

>> ^mauz15:
Ever heard of that thing called psychology?


You mean the social science? With like the citations, and rigorous double-blind experiments? I've heard of it, but I don't see any trace of it here; all I see is old-fashioned, egocentric mysticism in a reactionary medium.

I'm citing 500,000 years of evolutionary success; those here are content to cite old wives tales.

He's obviously an unstoppable egocentric who is a neurotic control freak and lacks even the most basic skills of common decency. No wonder Adam has such a hard time working with him.

I hope this creep is a joke stating that these were difficult times comparable to WWII and pointing out Iraq as anything but a provoqued mess (and 9/11 also by the way). And wtf about communism?! Does Mr. America know what communism is?!

When writing sh|t like "safe for 7 years" you're only showing the weak sack of sheep cattle you truly are and how you're awesomely disposed to obey through fear.

And your horrible wish of Medieval Absolutism (4 more years of service) just goes to illustrate how egocentric is your sense of History - a History that skipped that same Medieval period, which has the side effect of folks like you directioning their impotence into pseudo-political-patriotical wishes.

>> ^kronosposeidon:
^If you put your egocentric world view aside for a second, what you consider "spam" isn't necessarily "spam" to someone else.

You show me a world view where shoving the same message in everyone's face fifty times in a row isn't spam. If you want to solicit votes and views like an idiot you go right ahead, all I want you to do is hit 'private' instead of being such a dickwad.

^If you put your egocentric world view aside for a second, what you consider "spam" isn't necessarily "spam" to someone else.

Next time your boss is acting like a dickwad, you make sure you tell him or her that, just for me, okay? Or if I cop pisses you off, also call him a dickwad. Or if you run into Hulk Hogan and he looks at you the wrong way, call him a dickwad too. Because you make no exceptions, correct?

(And if you're self-employed, there's no doubt that the boss does act like a dickwad. Give him what for, tip tip.)

Yeah, how egocentric of us in Los Angeles to refer to ourselves without a state! I never type the periods because of laziness, to be honest. I know, I know. It's because LA is so universally understood. If I still lived in Graham, NC, I'd never just call it Graham or G.

Jonny, I think I kind of get your meaning, though I'm still a bit confused. I have to disagree with you when you alude we should force people to accept a "universal" method of education. Where's the freedom in that? I am an atheist. Still, who am I to say what someone can or should teach their child? If a parent prefers to teach a child Creationism, who am I to say they cannot?

I adore people like Richard Dawkins who says religion is a form of child abuse. Still, I cannot with clear conscience say I know better than someone else, so I cannot see why I'd force a universal form of education on any child or family. Getting rid of public schools would mean we'd have the freedom to pick how we'd want to teach our children. If you believe in science and evolution, as I do, then you'd be free to either home school them OR send them to a school that was more to your liking. So, in that regard, yes, it's not about money and very much about ideas: The ideas of freedom, not elitist governmental control.

Thanks man. Now where's my star?

In reply to this comment by dystopianfuturetoday:
Well said Irish.

In reply to this comment by Irishman:
Lack of challenge and progess for the top dogs?
What is this, World of Warcraft?

I don't care about points
or an avatar
or stars
or upvotes or downvotes
I just post and watch videos and occasionally start a ruck in the comments.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with the site or its mechanics. You're all just getting a little bit egocentric.

Well said Irish.

In reply to this comment by Irishman:
Lack of challenge and progess for the top dogs?
What is this, World of Warcraft?

I don't care about points
or an avatar
or stars
or upvotes or downvotes
I just post and watch videos and occasionally start a ruck in the comments.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with the site or its mechanics. You're all just getting a little bit egocentric.

Thanks, Spoco. I have a lot of respect for you, even if I disagree with you most of the time. I can see what you mean about your frustration with the United States. But, I donno, I think it is a little bit unfair of you to blame your country's problems on us, but you kind of already acknowledged that. We make mistakes just like everybody else. We also do a lot of things right. The difference is that people notice in a big way when we royally screw up, and they don't forgive us for a long time. But, do try and be sensitive if you can because we are concerned enough about our own problems without other nations blaming us for SUVs, global warming, health care, and bad governments. You should see TV around here right now. NOTHING BUT GREEN. I swear, half of the ads and promotions have something to do with the environment these days. It's amazing. That's one point to the US media. They don't get my admiration very often.

Ah, capitalism. I could really get into that. I donno, Spoco. I'm terribly wary of a public health care system. The US doesn't always handle its public programs in the best way. Prime example: Education. Also: Welfare. I'm afraid that the quality of our health care will go down. We do have social programs for free healthcare. The government will pay and it really isn't that hard to obtain. Just ask my brother.

Don't get me wrong. I love public education and I love Welfare, but USAmericans are getting extremely tired of the government mismanaging our tax dollars. Republicans cling whiteknuckled to their pocketbooks because they're tired of the government dipping in and throwing our money around like its free. I don't worship the almighty dollar, but I don't believe that the government has the right to decide where my money is most valuable. I give almost 20% of my income to charity and if I (21-year-old girl) can make $30,000 a year with no academic degrees or job skills while going to school full time and paying for tuition without going into debt and without relying on any social programs or scholoraships, anyone can at least survive and have a decent standard of living in the US with the help of the social programs that we already have. We don't need any more. That's just my narrow-minded opinion, of course.

In reply to this comment by spoco2:
A well said comment indeed.

I think one of the things that has me so anti American at present is a hold over from our last government (we elected a new government in, erm... 6 months ago or something, we've just switched to our Labor government, like your Democrats, switching away from our Liberal government, like your Republicans). Our last leader seemed to be George W's lapdog, and followed the US in everything, to our detriment, went into war with the US after the VAST majority of Australians said 'NO, we don't think this war is right'. And at that time France was being ridiculed by the US for having the balls to say so and not get involved in a war that pretty much the entire world now agrees was based on lies.

So there's that. Then him stating that the US health system was a model to emulate which made me dry retch... The number of times we've taken our kids into the emergency room, had a battery of things done, and the like, then walked out... nothing to pay, all done... try doing that in the states. Or, try affording the things we need done with our son who has a collection of very serious heart defects without a great public health system.

So, it comes from living in a country that I viewed as getting a number of things better than the states (health, not as war hungry, and education), and seeing our government follow the lead of the states and try and bring us down to it's level.

And I guess I'm in the same boat as you, we had our version of Bush voted in twice too, by the unwashed masses who couldn't see past their puny tax cuts... so, I guess it's a case of getting pissed off at my country by proxy... because, well, there isn't enough media around the world ON our country.

But also because we have our new government that we've finally been able to get in, and a number of us are really hopeful they'll do the right thing, and they HAVE so far done a number of things they promised to... we just really hope that the States can come up to bar too and start leading by example and showing other countries.... look, do education better, take more care of the environment, be a 'BETTER' country and it can benefit EVERYONE.

But there's so many people I keep running into who have such huge capitalistic blinkers on, and think the almighty dollar is king and everything else should fuck right off, including the environment, and I just want to scream at them because they don't get it, they don't get that their mindset is killing the world in so many ways 'War good, money good, outsiders bad'.

I see that you're probably not like that, but I think you can see how anything that rallies against the BAD in countries makes us a bit happier.

In reply to this comment by thepinky:
Spoco,

I agree with a lot of what you said, but I would just like to add a few things. I think it is hard for USAmericans to accept criticism for several reasons. We can all see and sense that something is wrong. We want things to change, but change is slow. Our economy is plummeting and our president is a joke and we do what we can, but democracy has started to fail us. Or we have failed democracy. It seems to me that the middle class is either apathetic or powerless. Those of us who oppose socialism are watching as our country slowly withdraws from the ideals that made us what we are (or what we used to be). Since, as you said, we have a huge influence on the world at large, the critical eye of other nations is upon us. Try to put yourself in our place. Take me, for instance. I'm a college student studying english and education. I'm worried by the state of education and by the moral decline of the world, and I'm getting into the field where I can help make a difference in education. I'm somewhat disillusioned with my own country. That is a hard thing to face. Do you know what that feels like? It's painful. It's hard for me to hear people from other countries mock me, as if they know anything about what it means to be USAmerican right now. And I'm doing what I can, which is why I get frustrated and discouraged by USAmericans who think that bashing the USA is the new form of revolution instead of what it is: hot air.

Yes, I know we have a pretty high standard of living here and have no real reason to complain. We can get a bit ethnocentric. But I think the intelligent, educated, and/or thoughtful among us realize that the USA is not the center of the universe. We are stereotyped by other nations as prideful and egocentric and perhaps we are a bit, but it's still a stereotype, and it's small of you to ascribe to it. I've known Europeans (and Australians) from several countries who have been far more puffed-up than most USAmericans currently are. And everybody seems fond of bashing us, as if they couldn't hear themselves sounding like the very people they are complaining about. So please try to understand that the USA isn't the devil and that we're not all content to watch the decline happen, make fun of ourselves, and take the criticism of people who don't really know us. When USAmericans get a little bit defensive and angry, it's probably because a lot of us are feeling vulnerable right now.

P.S. Money is not the problem with education. We pump more money into education per student than almost any other nation. The money is mismanaged and education is failing because we insist on relying on tradition instead of adjusting to a globalized economy and a technologically advancing world. And I despise SUVs. And many of us didn't vote for Bush, and many of those who did regret that decision. Your language is a bit accusatory, as if they knew what was going to happen when they elected him. Like Australia hasn't ever had bad leaders. What are we supposed to do? Suggestions welcome.

A well said comment indeed.

I think one of the things that has me so anti American at present is a hold over from our last government (we elected a new government in, erm... 6 months ago or something, we've just switched to our Labor government, like your Democrats, switching away from our Liberal government, like your Republicans). Our last leader seemed to be George W's lapdog, and followed the US in everything, to our detriment, went into war with the US after the VAST majority of Australians said 'NO, we don't think this war is right'. And at that time France was being ridiculed by the US for having the balls to say so and not get involved in a war that pretty much the entire world now agrees was based on lies.

So there's that. Then him stating that the US health system was a model to emulate which made me dry retch... The number of times we've taken our kids into the emergency room, had a battery of things done, and the like, then walked out... nothing to pay, all done... try doing that in the states. Or, try affording the things we need done with our son who has a collection of very serious heart defects without a great public health system.

So, it comes from living in a country that I viewed as getting a number of things better than the states (health, not as war hungry, and education), and seeing our government follow the lead of the states and try and bring us down to it's level.

And I guess I'm in the same boat as you, we had our version of Bush voted in twice too, by the unwashed masses who couldn't see past their puny tax cuts... so, I guess it's a case of getting pissed off at my country by proxy... because, well, there isn't enough media around the world ON our country.

But also because we have our new government that we've finally been able to get in, and a number of us are really hopeful they'll do the right thing, and they HAVE so far done a number of things they promised to... we just really hope that the States can come up to bar too and start leading by example and showing other countries.... look, do education better, take more care of the environment, be a 'BETTER' country and it can benefit EVERYONE.

But there's so many people I keep running into who have such huge capitalistic blinkers on, and think the almighty dollar is king and everything else should fuck right off, including the environment, and I just want to scream at them because they don't get it, they don't get that their mindset is killing the world in so many ways 'War good, money good, outsiders bad'.

I see that you're probably not like that, but I think you can see how anything that rallies against the BAD in countries makes us a bit happier.

In reply to this comment by thepinky:
Spoco,

I agree with a lot of what you said, but I would just like to add a few things. I think it is hard for USAmericans to accept criticism for several reasons. We can all see and sense that something is wrong. We want things to change, but change is slow. Our economy is plummeting and our president is a joke and we do what we can, but democracy has started to fail us. Or we have failed democracy. It seems to me that the middle class is either apathetic or powerless. Those of us who oppose socialism are watching as our country slowly withdraws from the ideals that made us what we are (or what we used to be). Since, as you said, we have a huge influence on the world at large, the critical eye of other nations is upon us. Try to put yourself in our place. Take me, for instance. I'm a college student studying english and education. I'm worried by the state of education and by the moral decline of the world, and I'm getting into the field where I can help make a difference in education. I'm somewhat disillusioned with my own country. That is a hard thing to face. Do you know what that feels like? It's painful. It's hard for me to hear people from other countries mock me, as if they know anything about what it means to be USAmerican right now. And I'm doing what I can, which is why I get frustrated and discouraged by USAmericans who think that bashing the USA is the new form of revolution instead of what it is: hot air.

Yes, I know we have a pretty high standard of living here and have no real reason to complain. We can get a bit ethnocentric. But I think the intelligent, educated, and/or thoughtful among us realize that the USA is not the center of the universe. We are stereotyped by other nations as prideful and egocentric and perhaps we are a bit, but it's still a stereotype, and it's small of you to ascribe to it. I've known Europeans (and Australians) from several countries who have been far more puffed-up than most USAmericans currently are. And everybody seems fond of bashing us, as if they couldn't hear themselves sounding like the very people they are complaining about. So please try to understand that the USA isn't the devil and that we're not all content to watch the decline happen, make fun of ourselves, and take the criticism of people who don't really know us. When USAmericans get a little bit defensive and angry, it's probably because a lot of us are feeling vulnerable right now.

P.S. Money is not the problem with education. We pump more money into education per student than almost any other nation. The money is mismanaged and education is failing because we insist on relying on tradition instead of adjusting to a globalized economy and a technologically advancing world. And I despise SUVs. And many of us didn't vote for Bush, and many of those who did regret that decision. Your language is a bit accusatory, as if they knew what was going to happen when they elected him. Like Australia hasn't ever had bad leaders. What are we supposed to do? Suggestions welcome.

Spoco,

I agree with a lot of what you said, but I would just like to add a few things. I think it is hard for USAmericans to accept criticism for several reasons. We can all see and sense that something is wrong. We want things to change, but change is slow. Our economy is plummeting and our president is a joke and we do what we can, but democracy has started to fail us. Or we have failed democracy. It seems to me that the middle class is either apathetic or powerless. Those of us who oppose socialism are watching as our country slowly withdraws from the ideals that made us what we are (or what we used to be). Since, as you said, we have a huge influence on the world at large, the critical eye of other nations is upon us. Try to put yourself in our place. Take me, for instance. I'm a college student studying english and education. I'm worried by the state of education and by the moral decline of the world, and I'm getting into the field where I can help make a difference in education. I'm somewhat disillusioned with my own country. That is a hard thing to face. Do you know what that feels like? It's painful. It's hard for me to hear people from other countries mock me, as if they know anything about what it means to be USAmerican right now. And I'm doing what I can, which is why I get frustrated and discouraged by USAmericans who think that bashing the USA is the new form of revolution instead of what it is: hot air.

Yes, I know we have a pretty high standard of living here and have no real reason to complain. We can get a bit ethnocentric. But I think the intelligent, educated, and/or thoughtful among us realize that the USA is not the center of the universe. We are stereotyped by other nations as prideful and egocentric and perhaps we are a bit, but it's still a stereotype, and it's small of you to ascribe to it. I've known Europeans (and Australians) from several countries who have been far more puffed-up than most USAmericans currently are. And everybody seems fond of bashing us, as if they couldn't hear themselves sounding like the very people they are complaining about. So please try to understand that the USA isn't the devil and that we're not all content to watch the decline happen, make fun of ourselves, and take the criticism of people who don't really know us. When USAmericans get a little bit defensive and angry, it's probably because a lot of us are feeling vulnerable right now.

P.S. Money is not the problem with education. We pump more money into education per student than almost any other nation. The money is mismanaged and education is failing because we insist on relying on tradition instead of adjusting to a globalized economy and a technologically advancing world. And I despise SUVs. And many of us didn't vote for Bush, and many of those who did regret that decision. Your language is a bit accusatory, as if they knew what was going to happen when they elected him. Like Australia hasn't ever had bad leaders. What are we supposed to do? Suggestions welcome.

Lack of challenge and progess for the top dogs?
What is this, World of Warcraft?

I don't care about points
or an avatar
or stars
or upvotes or downvotes
I just post and watch videos and occasionally start a ruck in the comments.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with the site or its mechanics. You're all just getting a little bit egocentric.

Why, how belittling of you to say so. I actually don't have a heck of a lot of time on my hands and sacrificed sleep in an effort to make you all see that you are intolerant, but I'm never going to win against such blatant and blind egocentrism, so it was a waste of my time.

I don't see how your arguments against the Bible relate to the topic at hand, so I'm not going to give a rebuttal. We aren't trying to legitimize religion here. We'er trying to make people realize that they don't know all that they think they do about Mormons and that they need to be more tolerant.

I agree that creationists who deny the scientific facts are blinding themselves to truth. Not all Christians believe that Creationism and Darwinism are mutually exclusive. There are many books on the subject of justifying the two ideologies. Pick one up if you care.

I don't have the energy (or the TIME!) to go too far into this point right now. But, YES, many, many, many Christians are hypocrites. I completely and utterly agree. We should all be tolerant of each other.

Many people believe that there are safeguards against following and believing implicitly in the words of others. Some but not all of which are:
1. Personal revelation
2. Agreement with already existing doctrines and morals
3. Intellect
4. Rationality

Why not get the same health benefits from non-addictive substances? Caffeine in addictive and in tea. And who said that rationality has to justify the interworkings of religion? Pah-lease! Have you ever heard of faith? What's the difference between doing what the Bible says and doing what Joseph Smith says? I don't know why you're even bothering to bring this up. Like SDGundamX said, he was taught WHY he did things. I think that most Mormons know why they do the things they do.

What's wrong with tithes? They aren't forced out of anybody. They go to good causes. Members of the church do not get paid for their service, and church members can easily find out where their money is going. I don't see the problem, honestly, or why it seems important to you.

GAH! If anyone uses anything akin to the term "forcing beliefs" one more time, I THINK AM GOING TO VOMIT.

>> ^spoco2:
Holy crap pinky, you've got an AWFUL lot of time on your hands! That's a lot of comments! (Still, that's the way of uni students... At least it was for me)
Ignoring whether you believe in a supernatural being or not, my issues with pretty much all religions, but especially the Christian ones:
The belief that the bible is the word of god... even though it is:
a) A bunch of things written by a group of different people, all with their own points to get across and axes to grind.
b) Proven to have been altered and changed over time by whoever happened to be in power at the time (the Romans changed it, it's been changed during translations etc.)
c) That it's full of things written by the people of the day which reflects the beliefs of the time and includes things like slavery being ok, and so Christians pick and choose what they wish to believe from the book while still trying to say that it's all god's word.
The attempted forcing of what they believe onto the rest of us:
This forceful pushing of Creationism and refuting of the proven facts of Evolution is damaging the countries where this is becoming mainstream (the US in particular). Creationism was a way for people who DID NOT UNDERSTAND how things worked to explain them, now that we do, it should be relegated to the history books as where we've come from.
The heinous hypocrites that most of the organized Christian churches are:
Do unto others as you would have done unto you... except if you're gay, or of another faith, or believe in something we don't believe in, then we're going to treat you like dirt and try and pass laws to stop you being YOU.
Believing that there are those that have 'authority from God':
Under what proof? That the existing ones who have authority from god give them that authority? Who gave them it? Those before... and so on until you get to someone who just said 'Yeah, you know, God spoke to me and kinda told me I speak for him...' It's an utter cop out in general life to hand over your entire moral code to someone who just says that they speak for some being that you believe in, and so anything they say goes. 'I don't like gays, they're unnatural'. 'Why is that then?' 'Well, because my pastor says so'... 'Riiiight'.
Issues with Mormon's in particular from this video:
The excluding or including things in your life just because someone said so
With nothing to back it up other than that Joseph Smith said so, you're going to give up all alcohol, coffee and tea? Why? Tea has antioxidants, as does coffee. Red wine has been shown time and time again to have many positive health benefits. Sure you can overdo any of these, but that's MODERATION, not outright shunning of something with no rational reason behind it.
Handing over of 1/10th of your income for the 'work of God'
So, really, you're handing over a HUGE amount of what you earn to those that have self proclaimed themselves to be in communication with god to do with as they please... wonderful
But most of all demonstrating their amazing gullibility in believing the charlatan that was Joseph Smith. Even from a LDS website itself, which is obviously PRO him, the story comes off as just plain ridiculous.
And it mentions the hat and if you read that, then watch South Park THEY TELL IT LIKE IT IS. That is truly the insanity of the beliefs.
But hey, if people want to believe that, good on them, just DON'T COME TO MY DOOR TRYING TO MAKE ME BELIEVE IT.
But the good thing about Mormons... because so many more people can see their beliefs as being pretty ridiculous, it allows us to say, "Really, so a guy who puts a hat over his head and rambles off things from 'sacred stones' is a pretty insane thing to follow? OK, what about people who believe that there really was a Garden of idyllic majesty with no sin, and a talking snake with a magic apple? What about believing that you can fit two of every single species of animal onto a wooden boat built by ONE GUY and then live on it without them all dying for 40 DAYS? That doesn't sound a bit loopy to you? Good luck with that."
Surely religion should be about passing on a GOOD moral code, to teach a 'right and wrong' way to treat people. As SDGundamX said he received from his Mormon church, teaching WHY things are not good to do to people from a humanistic point of view, not just because some book says so.
I think one should invest more time in organisations that aim to help their community with NO bias as to beliefs at all, but just aim to treat everyone fairly and equitably.
If you believe something that I don't, and if it doesn't mean that you treat myself or anyone else in a poor manner, then go for it. But when you try and force you beliefs on others, try to tell others that they are wrong, try to force people to change who they are (no, you've only CHOSEN to be Gay, repent now), THAT IS WRONG.