Yeah I have to admit. The whole voice thing is like the one thing that still kinda nags at me about homosexuality.

go nuts with the same sex thing... but WTF does the pitch of your voice have to do with homosexuality?

anyone know if what savage says is true or is he just speculating? I always assumed it was a sociological thing and a manifestation of counterculture and that it would eventually go away as gays are accepted and treated like everyone else

It's mostly a semantic quibble, I don't really disagree with you about this lady's credibility.

It just seems like American culture has been under a sustained attack by Orwellian wordsmiths who are trying to achieve through manipulations of language what they can't achieve by just making an open and straightforward case for their ideas.

We've seen a decades-long project to destroy the credibility of the press, which started with them claiming it's got a liberal bias (under the old meaning of the word, where this is assumed to be both unintentional and mild), while simultaneously saying all day on talk radio that "liberal bias" is a nefarious plot to brainwash people.

A decade or two down the road, you wind up with this whole counterculture of angry old white guys simply apoplectic about a series of supposed injustices committed against them (that never actually happened) by people who are prejudiced against them (who aren't actually prejudiced).

It is more than a little bit of a tangent, but I definitely get why calling her "biased" provoked this reaction from dft.

Countercultures from different times.

@rottenseed
I think that's somewhat debatable. Etymology doesn't tell the whole story of the inception of a word or phrase. I at least can find some sources that suggest the opposite is true: http://ebookbrowse.com/caliban-and-the-witch-pdf-d19978416

"Several authors have also uncovered the fact that there was a definite queer element to many of the sects concerned. Almost one thousand years ago, these people were expressing a unity of struggle which survives in broken form even today, no matter how much assimilated queers, career women and left-wing defenders of heterosexuality may insist otherwise."

This author adds the following notation for the source as well: "10 While not a scholarly work, Arthur Evans’ Witchcraft and the Gay Counterculture: A Radical View of Western Civilization and Some of the People It Has Tried to Destroy (Fag Rag Books, 1978) is the earliest sympathetic formulation of this argument that I know of; more recent and more scholarly works include John Boswell’s Christianity, social tolerance, and homosexuality : gay people in Western Europe from the beginning of the Christian era to the fourteenth century (University of Chicago Press, c1980) and Jeffrey Richards’ Sex, dissidence, and damnation : minority groups in the Middle Ages (Routledge 1991)."

----------

Solid evidence? Hardly. But it does seem, based on what I'm seeing in the research, that the connection is at least a possibility.

It's amazing to me how ensconsed in the bubble the right is these days.

Let's break it down:

1. Ideological subversion propagation - Radical conservatives begin pushing their ideology to all members of society through churches, schools, and supposedly independent policy research "think tanks". This begins in the early 30's, and is a systematic campaign aimed at chipping away at the credibility of embedded liberalism, America's original ideology. The "threat of communism" is conflated with traditional American values like empathy, solidarity, and equality.
   
   
2. Destabilization - The 1960's reads literally like a textbook example of a country in crisis. A presidential assassination, two proxy wars, a mexican standoff with nuclear weapons, a counterculture protest movement, race relations getting strained with protests and violence, and the then-dominant Democratic party coming apart at its seams over disagreements about the war and civil rights.
   
   
3. Crisis - This one is clear. The oil crisis of the 1970's was our key takeover crisis moment. It basically ushered in an end to embedded liberalism as the American way of life. So many aspects of our political life and the way our economy was run was radically changed in the aftermath of that crisis, even though it was a walk in the park compared to today's economic problems.
   
   
4. Normalization - Conservative Republicans won 3 terms in a row, from 1980 until 1992, followed by a conservative, Southern Democrat who won in part because a third party candidate split Republican support. Party-line economists have treated the works of John Maynard Keynes the way their forebears treated the work of Karl Heinrich Marx -- they pretended it had nothing worthwhile to say, and tried their best to erase it from academic discourse. The Democrats of today consider reforms Republicans proposed in 1992 massive ideological win for the left.
   

Take the bananas out of your ears, morons.

Anyways, this is actually a pretty astute observation about how radical political and economic change happens. It's not necessarily planned like our conservative takeover was, but the framework for all ideological revolutions start with an ideology becoming commonly known, then during a period of destabilization and crisis, people may turn to the new ideology.

This is literally what more than a few libertarian bloggers say is their raison d'etre -- to make sure the ideology is lying around for when a crisis hits.

However, anyone who thinks some Russian-led infiltration of "Marxist-Lenninist" ideology happened or is happening is fucking deluded. It would've been a real trick considering your average American doesn't have a fucking clue what Marxism is...because the right stigmatized knowledge of it!

Mr. Brand is a busy boy. Too bad there are some intelligent people who traced back his activities and thoughts, his spin-mastery and network-building:


http://www.smartmobs.com/2006/12/04/video-of-fred-turner-from-counterculture-to-cyberculture/

Way to dig up some quotes!

In reply to this comment by NetRunner:
Some quotes from von Brunn's writings:

LIBERALISM/JEWRY/MARXISM was the formula used by Woodrow Wilson, and Franklin D. Roosevelt, both Democrats, to betray their Nation.

JEW aspirations, among which was the destruction of Germany, avowed enemy of LIBERALISM/ MARXISM/JEWRY and Fatherland of the White Race.

Under Roosevelt, LIBERALISM/ MARXISM/JEWRY triumphed over Western Civilization.

the LIBERAL establishment is engaged in a counterculture campaign designed to eliminate diversity through racial miscegenation.

As with ALL LIBERAL ideologies, miscegenation is totally inconsistent with Natural Law:

Big Leftist Democrat, yep.

Keep on drinking your own Kool-aid guys. Worms like Beck fuel people like this shooter.

Some quotes from von Brunn's writings:

LIBERALISM/JEWRY/MARXISM was the formula used by Woodrow Wilson, and Franklin D. Roosevelt, both Democrats, to betray their Nation.

JEW aspirations, among which was the destruction of Germany, avowed enemy of LIBERALISM/ MARXISM/JEWRY and Fatherland of the White Race.

Under Roosevelt, LIBERALISM/ MARXISM/JEWRY triumphed over Western Civilization.

the LIBERAL establishment is engaged in a counterculture campaign designed to eliminate diversity through racial miscegenation.

As with ALL LIBERAL ideologies, miscegenation is totally inconsistent with Natural Law:

Big Leftist Democrat, yep.

Keep on drinking your own Kool-aid guys. Worms like Beck fuel people like this shooter.

^Januari makes a good point. Does this mean that, under a McCain / Palin administration, everyone who has ever affiated with a known terrorist (such as all of Ayers' students, and everyone else who has ever known anyone who was involved in 60s counterculture revolution) is to be considered "risky" and "dangerous?"

If so, America truly is a police state, whose "citizens" are soon to be (if not already) outnumbered by its prisoners.

Honestly and I am not one to judge without knowing the person, but your comments are completely ridiculous and not even logical. Not everyone is caught up in what quote "the fucking fake culture/counterculture” very intelligent. When you claim that marijuana is the drug of the middle class, yea to a degree you are right. But let me ask you what other drugs do you think are more glamorous or less middle class like you speak of? You need to grow up and realize there is more to marijuana than the petty subculture you have created in your mind.

I agree with what Mr. Rogers said about the counterculture: "Do these peace-and-love types ever stop to consider what living in harmony with nature actually means? It means survival of the fittest, death to the weak, live and let die, kill or be killed. This is all very admirable but you won't find a Wiccan, Pagan or hippie who practices it. Living in harmony with nature does not mean collecting crystals, chanting to the goddess and lighting candles to heal the earth. Nature isn't all love, peace and baby animals. Nature is birth, sex, death, instincts, survival, predator and prey. It is fangs, flesh and f--king."

Tags for this video have been changed from 'you, never, realize, erikson, austin' to 'you, never, realize, erikson, austin, 1966, 60s, jug, lsd, counterculture' - edited by swampgirl

the fucking fake culture/counterculture that comes with marijuana is disgusting. Marijuana and, to a degree, hashish, are or have become drugs of the middle class, with all the pettiness that comes with it.
-bluecliff

^ ^
bluecliff you are a snotty little bitch who needs to take that stick out of your ass. go ask your daddy for a new car and shut the fuck up

Isn't this getting tired?
I mean, the constant barrage of pro marijuana talk.
It's obvious that it's not a matter of convincing people.
Alcohol and cigarettes are somehow more liberating than marijuana in some way, perhaps because they HAVE more serious and direct effects on health.
Marijuana doesnt cause addictin but it often commes with a higher cost - the fucking fake culture/counterculture that comes with marijuana is disgusting. Marijuana and, to a degree, hashish, are or have become drugs of the middle class, with all the pettiness that comes with it.

One of my favorite clips of Jack Kerouac. Interestingly, it is not actually On the Road that Kerouac is reading from, but his final version of it (and what Kerouac considered his masterpiece, thought not nearly as well received) entitled Visions of Cody.

Kerouac rarely appeared on television, and the few appearances he did make were typically brief. The deviation from the agreed-upon plan of reading from On the Road is often interpreted by counterculture literature enthusiasts as a sort of "f*** you" to the establishment by reading from the work Kerouac believed to be his best, rather than from the "inferior" On the Road that garnered far more mainstream popularity.