Thanks bro, and thanks for the promote. I pulled the title off of youtube, so im not married to it. I'll think about alternatives.

I think the question of meaning is primary in our lives..and it's easy to go through life just doing what everyone expects you to do (go to school, get a job, get a wife, get a house, have kids, retire, die), without really thinking about it. The bread and circuses you were talking about. The American dream, for instance..is this really a fulfilling concept? Is the point of our lives to check everything off that list before we die? That's the way it is portrayed to us by society, anyway..just do A B C D and E and you'll have lived a meaningful life.

I don't think anyone really buys that, because it isn't fulfilling. I believe it is the true origin of the mid life crisis. You're doing everything society says you need to do to make you happy, and it's not making you happy. You've achieved all of these goals and checked the things off of the list, but even though you should be at peace, you're not. I think it's that dichotomy Tim was talking about between your heart and your mind, where you know in your core being that there has to be something more than this, a reason that you're here, but intellectually you can't justify it so you go along with the program. Yet for some reason you're disappointed when that greater meaning never manifests itself. You might even get depressed over it. I think it's because you're living as though there is a greater meaning even when you don't actually believe that there is. It's because the heart and the mind are not in agreement with one another. Sooner or later, something has to give, so I think these are questions everyone should ask themselves.

Holy fuck, please get away from your computer and interact with real flesh and blood human persons.

I refuse to believe you can't comprehend how disgusting and illogical this comment is.

"Sure prison rape is awful. But why make prisoners safer? We should really be focusing on making sure no one ever breaks the law, ever. Then there wouldn't be any prisoners to rape in the first place. Duuurrr."

It's simple Pennypacker.
You're a human. Immigrants are humans. Prisoners are humans.

If it's unjust to treat WinstonField AssholePacker like this.
It's clearly unjust to treat immigrants and prisoners like this. Full stop.

Who the fuck cares what law these people broke.
You break the law all the goddamn time and no one humiliates and degrades you for it.

These immigrants are trying to live "the american dream".
Shouldn't you admire them for that.
Shouldn't you stand up and protect them from these injustices.
Shouldn't you recognize their determination and hardwork to achieve that dream by any means necessary?!

You should. But you can't.
Cause you're too wrapped up in your "conservative" moralfaggotry to stop and examine the reality of things.

I.E. - The problem here is that the Border Patrol abuse EVERYONE. Fully legal citizens included.

Yet your moralfaggotry conveniently allows you to gloss over that fact and the root of the injustice.
All in favor of tooting the - "Illegal immigration is the real problem" horn.

TL;DR

The problem isn't illegal immigration.
The problem is the systemic abuse, degradation and misconduct by people trusted with authority.

Pennypacker can't empathize. Needs to be tortured next time he gets a speeding/parking ticket.


>> ^Winstonfield_Pennypacker:

Nothing new here. Such things have plagued the system for decades. Only message I get is that the US needs a better, better, higher, deeper wall so that only legal immigration can take place.

If you were looking for sympathy, look elsewhither. Illegals get no sympathy from me. No one approves of abuses.

If you want to eliminate these abuses, the solution is clear. Eliminate illegal immigration by slamming the south border shut.

And yet should we not arrest them? Should we give them 'amnesty'? Should we just get rid of prisons and go to some sort of hippie liberal honor system? Pht. So what's your point?

*dupeof=http://videosift.com/search?q=george+carlin+the+american+dream

>> ^ChaosEngine:

>> ^GenjiKilpatrick:
Hah! But no, seriously.
@<a rel="nofollow" href="http://videosift.com/member/lantern53" title="member since August 6th, 2010" class="profilelink">lantern53 knows.. that depriving servers of a living wage and forcing them to bust their asses for 5% gratuity on a $130 check.. you know, builds character.
Struggling in quasi-poverty for years of your life is what the American Dream is all about! duh.
That's why Mitt Romney is such a great American and needs to be President.
He knows what it's like.. to force people to struggle. For their own good.
p.s. - Everyone knows that raising the minimum wage is just another Socialist/Marxist scheme by Obama to disenfranchise the Job Creators in this country.
While I completely agree that people should be paid a living wage, I don't really have a problem with tipping. People should bust their asses in their job, especially if your job is customer facing. Customer service in the USA is so much better than almost anywhere else I've been, (it's particularly bad in NZ)


Just a meaningless anecdote (just find it funny that you mention it):

I went to Sydney once (15 years ago) and the very first day, I went to a place called the Juba Cafe. My friend and I were surprised to find porridge on the menu, because all I knew of porridge was from Oliver Twist or Little Orphan Annie. Our server, who's name was Anna, was really surprised to hear it, so she bought us porridge to convince us it was good. It was. Then, after we ate (before we tipped her) she invited us over to her apartment for some wine that night. When we got there, she had invited all her friends over to meet "her new Americans." They gave us wine, we talked for a long time about NZ (where she was from) and they rolled me the first "baseball bat" that I ever smoked, with the the little cardboard filter in it and everything. They also introduced me to Aphex Twin (the "Richard D. James Album") and we bonded over Ween, which I was surprised to hear they knew all about, even in 97'. So, after we were completely blitzed, Anna and her friends took us out to dinner, where we ate and drank and talked for hours and didn't pay a dime while these guys all treated us to a great first night in their city. I'm not even sure how we got home, but they sure didn't let anything bad happen to us.

The reason I mention it, is that I would say it was, easily, the best service I've ever had in my entire life, anywhere. We had to leave town the next day and I never saw or spoke to any of those guys again. I really wish I'd kept in contact with them because I owe them so much more than a night out. I still roll a fat bat and pop in the Aphex Twin on a pretty regular basis.

>> ^ChaosEngine:

>> ^GenjiKilpatrick:
Hah! But no, seriously.
@lantern53 knows.. that depriving servers of a living wage and forcing them to bust their asses for 5% gratuity on a $130 check.. you know, builds character.
Struggling in quasi-poverty for years of your life is what the American Dream is all about! duh.
That's why Mitt Romney is such a great American and needs to be President.
He knows what it's like.. to force people to struggle. For their own good.
p.s. - Everyone knows that raising the minimum wage is just another Socialist/Marxist scheme by Obama to disenfranchise the Job Creators in this country.
While I completely agree that people should be paid a living wage, I don't really have a problem with tipping. People should bust their asses in their job, especially if your job is customer facing. Customer service in the USA is so much better than almost anywhere else I've been, (it's particularly bad in NZ)


Have you ever been to Japan? Only country I've been to where shops and restaurants have been consistently friendly and welcoming (with a couple exceptions). Every where else is a mixed bag. You get friendly, you get indifferent. You get surly, you get downright rude. The place where I encountered the friendliest waiting staff was my local cafe back in Melbourne (god i miss it) where I've never been obliged to tip (did occasionally though).

>> ^GenjiKilpatrick:

Hah! But no, seriously.
@lantern53 knows.. that depriving servers of a living wage and forcing them to bust their asses for 5% gratuity on a $130 check.. you know, builds character.
Struggling in quasi-poverty for years of your life is what the American Dream is all about! duh.
That's why Mitt Romney is such a great American and needs to be President.
He knows what it's like.. to force people to struggle. For their own good.
p.s. - Everyone knows that raising the minimum wage is just another Socialist/Marxist scheme by Obama to disenfranchise the Job Creators in this country.

While I completely agree that people should be paid a living wage, I don't really have a problem with tipping. People should bust their asses in their job, especially if your job is customer facing. Customer service in the USA is so much better than almost anywhere else I've been, (it's particularly bad in NZ)

>> ^GenjiKilpatrick:

Hah! But no, seriously.
@lantern53 knows.. that depriving servers of a living wage and forcing them to bust their asses for 5% gratuity on a $130 check.. you know, builds character.
Struggling in quasi-poverty for years of your life is what the American Dream is all about! duh.
That's why Mitt Romney is such a great American and needs to be President.
He knows what it's like.. to force people to struggle. For their own good.
p.s. - Everyone knows that raising the minimum wage is just another Socialist/Marxist scheme by Obama to disenfranchise the Job Creators in this country.

We need a "sardonic" button

Hah! But no, seriously.

@lantern53 knows.. that depriving servers of a living wage and forcing them to bust their asses for 5% gratuity on a $130 check.. you know, builds character.

Struggling in quasi-poverty for years of your life is what the American Dream is all about! duh.

That's why Mitt Romney is such a great American and needs to be President.
He knows what it's like.. to force people to struggle. For their own good.

p.s. - Everyone knows that raising the minimum wage is just another Socialist/Marxist scheme by Obama to disenfranchise the Job Creators in this country.

>> ^Yogi:

>> ^EvilDeathBee:
>> ^lantern53:
If she worked as a server she would begin to understand 'tipping' quite quickly, I am sure.

No, you see we pay our servers.

A Living wage? That's Communism!!!

Thanks for the insight in your replies.

It's kinda nitpicky, but in all the stuff I've read about the Finnish system (including the article in The Atlantic), the director of public schools describes the system as equity, not equality. There is the big difference between them and the US system. The US system is totally based on equality, i.e. No Child Left Behind. It's a huge cultural difference to support equity, not equality.
>> ^CreamK:

As a Finnish citizen and being in one the first to gain from the new system, i can say without a doubt that the main point here is not the way we teach: it's about equality!! Every kid has equal opportunity to educate them self for FREE in a schooling system where every school has the same resources and same level of teachers. No matter what color you are, no matter if your parents are rich or poor, you get the same chance in life.
For me, it's been always granted: everyone gets educated, in fact, here there is no chance of not getting educated. Everybody have to get 9 years of basic education, it's in the law. As a parent, you have to extreme lenghts to not get your kid educated. Our "No kids left behind" really means what it says. Literacy is close to 100%, everyone knows how to do basic math, know about the history, geography, all the basic knowledge we humans need to survive.
As for the cost of this system, well, it's cheaper than what US have. By a large margin too. Even when our teachers are considered to be in the upper middle class, one meal per day for free for kids in school, no tuitions until University, all the reading material is free for the first 9 years, you get pens and pencils, rulers and paper, all for free... As for University tuitions, they are not in the range of tens of thousands, it's in the range of hundreds. So by the time a person has got 16 years of education, his student loans are about 10 000€, living and eating here is not free but nobodys forced to do two jobs to pay up for tuitions or parents getting a mortgage to give their younglings a fair chance.
Did i say it's cheaper than what US have? How about treating your citizens truly equal and giving everyone the chance of that American Dream?

As a Finnish citizen and being in one the first to gain from the new system, i can say without a doubt that the main point here is not the way we teach: it's about equality!! Every kid has equal opportunity to educate them self for FREE in a schooling system where every school has the same resources and same level of teachers. No matter what color you are, no matter if your parents are rich or poor, you get the same chance in life.

For me, it's been always granted: everyone gets educated, in fact, here there is no chance of not getting educated. Everybody have to get 9 years of basic education, it's in the law. As a parent, you have to extreme lenghts to not get your kid educated. Our "No kids left behind" really means what it says. Literacy is close to 100%, everyone knows how to do basic math, know about the history, geography, all the basic knowledge we humans need to survive.

As for the cost of this system, well, it's cheaper than what US have. By a large margin too. Even when our teachers are considered to be in the upper middle class, one meal per day for free for kids in school, no tuitions until University, all the reading material is free for the first 9 years, you get pens and pencils, rulers and paper, all for free... As for University tuitions, they are not in the range of tens of thousands, it's in the range of hundreds. So by the time a person has got 16 years of education, his student loans are about 10 000€, living and eating here is not free but nobodys forced to do two jobs to pay up for tuitions or parents getting a mortgage to give their younglings a fair chance.

Did i say it's cheaper than what US have? How about treating your citizens truly equal and giving everyone the chance of that American Dream?

A shame. Most people have no interest in dedicating themselves to a business. They'd rather dedicate themselves to a family, but it seems you can't make it in the world with such passé personal goals.>> ^Edgeman2112:

The american dream is to own a corporation or business. It's not the same as it was in the 50s (own a home, wife stays home with the 2.5 kids, save for retirement). If you can't beat em, join em, but stick to your own moral fiber.

"The American Dream" has been officially renamed "The American Scheme"

The american dream is to own a corporation or business. It's not the same as it was in the 50s (own a home, wife stays home with the 2.5 kids, save for retirement). If you can't beat em, join em, but stick to your own moral fiber.

>> ^westy:

You are aware that deregulation of the market is what cussed the current economic climete ?

To a point yes, but not in the way you think. What caused the problem was throwing loans to people who should never have gotten them via forced regulation of the mortgage system. A lovely harkening to the days of Clinton, Carter and others. While various democrats in power screamed "racist" whenever reforms were sought to tighten the controls back up. It's pretty damn obvious to anyone who's lived outside the US. You don't allow high risk loans to risky people, but the government not only said it was okay to do it(freddie and fanny), but forced the banks to do it otherwise they'd loose their secured depositor status.


It doesn't help that 100 years of Keynesian economic policies(aka lets throw money at it), didn't help either. Keynesian solutions sow their own doom in the future, either by steering a sector of the market, or by trying to fully steer various markets.





>> ^Asmo:


http://www.becker-posner-blog.com/2010/04/american-wage-stagnatio
nposner.html

Never mind losing their job, or their house. It's hard to live the American dream when you're unemployed and facing being homeless...
You can understand why the working class are getting pissed and the republicans are scared shitless about it. And holdouts like QM, with his quaint little almost racial slurs and real bad ass insults (occupoopers... lol, what are you, 6? Or is that your IQ?), are just a pebble before the avalanche. Europe goes under and the US slides back in to recession, you may well see a decent reenactment of the French revolution on Wall St.


Wait, you think it's the republicans that the public are pissed at? Do you even look at the polling data and methodology? They're tired of the new "hope and change" which equaled broke, and I'm out of a job. Hell if you run the correction numbers since Obama and the dem's took office, the unemployment rate would be up around 11%. The "occupiers" are a subset of a subset of people, who don't even come close to reflecting the mainstreet. Republican's aren't scared of that, though the Dem's who supported them sure seem to be. Since the occupiers poison touch sure has tanked many dem's numbers who 'supported' them.

*****************
http://www.becker-posner-blog.com/2010/04/american-wage-stagnationposner.html

Between 1997 and 2008, median U.S. household income fell by 4 percent after adjustment for inflation. It presumably did not rise in 2009, and may not in 2010 either. A median is not an average; average income rose because the incomes of high earners rose, and so the effect was to increase the inequality of the income distribution.
*****************

Never mind losing their job, or their house. It's hard to live the American dream when you're unemployed and facing being homeless...

You can understand why the working class are getting pissed and the republicans are scared shitless about it. And holdouts like QM, with his quaint little almost racial slurs and real bad ass insults (occupoopers... lol, what are you, 6? Or is that your IQ?), are just a pebble before the avalanche. Europe goes under and the US slides back in to recession, you may well see a decent reenactment of the French revolution on Wall St.