I'm sure there are people out there that have come up with software/technology from the influence of DMT, they just haven't come forth. I'd say that it has recognizably influenced ideas & thought - especially in the area of frequencies, energy, reality is a hologram sort of shit like that because the DMT experience is the frequency, mandala portal experience, lol! It's certainly influenced great art, look at Alex Grey. I've learned a lot of things that seem to not apply to this reality and the last time I took it, the only thing I learned was "GOOGLE", lol.

LSD on the otherhand has definitely influenced technology and science. My favorite LSD thought experiment become reality was Francis Crick's discovery of the DNA strand while on it.

"I'm still waiting for the insightful invention someone comes up with after one of these amazing 'conversations' with non-human beings. If this drug really did what those into it claim, you would expect most users to be incredible 'outside the box' inventors advancing science in ways normal people would never consider...but I have not heard of even a single instance of that kind of useful insight coming from DMT."

See now I can tell you really know nothing about it, since you do not need to be a chemist. You could grab yopo seeds and just smoke those (they were found in a 3,000 year old bowl in Costa Rica - people have known about it for a long time, then for some reason it became a secret - I think Christianity stepped in to get rid of the knowledge of it), it's found throughout nature - you could grab some acacia bark, boil it and drink. It is safe and it is not dangerous. It's been studied many times and is still being studied for how it affects the brain & as well for it's natural therapeutic effects. It is believed to be endogenous - that is it already exists within your being (it's in many plants and animals, recently found produced in an animal's pineal gland). Not a huge Tool fan but they often allude to this substance, the pineal gland, Alex Grey's artwork - pretty sure they know full well of what it is.

Anyway, I totally did derail the comments and I do apologize for that, but you guys were calling me "religious" and downvoting me so I took offense. I derailed mostly to post the link about Dawkins having a profound experience that humbles his approach, it was a joke - but really I think all of us that have experienced the wonders would love people like Dawkins to spend the 5-10 minutes to experience it and then hear what he has to say about it.

*promote

So have I.

I also am friendly with a few of the artists whose work is represented in the video (e.g., the MindStates image, Alex Grey's images, and the Electric Sheep).

Do I get a cookie??

Tags for this video have been changed from 'DMT, Ayahuasca, Mckenna, amazon, consciousness, psychedelic, spirits' to 'DMT, Ayahuasca, Mckenna, amazon, alex grey, consciousness, psychedelic, spirits' - edited by enoch

As you may have notice, this message is very long. Please take a while and read it a few times, in chunks, before you respond. I ask a lot of questions here so I’d like it you pretended as if you were asking the questions to yourself.

I should have qualified my statement about religions. I meant to clarify that in the Persian and Pre-Rome regions of the world, which were primarily Pagan, a huge majority of the religions didn’t have religious structures that were based around fear, for the most part. Yes, I admit that there was the concept of retribution from the gods but it wasn’t anything to the degree of everlasting punishment. I currently don’t know anything about the religions of the very early Americas (Mayans, etc). It wasn’t until the god concepts became more personalized and more humans that it became more about fear. There is a natural progression in the ideological development in religions that goes from being nothing about humans to being all about humans. Eternal suffering or anything resembling a “hell” is relatively new and came about around the time of monotheistic religions.

Let me ask you a question. Why do you trust your personal revelation?

I ask this because I used to be very “spiritual” and I’ve even had out-of-body experiences, experiences that I can only call past life regressions. I grew up in a practicing Christian family and I have memories of experience that I can only call “personal revelation”. I’ve come to a lot of reasons why I shouldn’t trust those personal revelations; I want to know if you’ve come to understand how the human brain is very easily tricked into irrational behaviors and beliefs (not just religious)

You say that this has been an ongoing revelation since you were 14. If you had not had this history of personal revelation at all and it came to you suddenly today, would you find it believable? I imagine that you’re beliefs have been challenged many times. Are you certain that the strengthening effect of the challenges aren’t just from the boomerang effect, caused by a need to justify something that you feel committed to?

Here is another great question. How much of your belief system is tied to your identity; how much do you identify with it, personally or socially? Meaning, if you came to disbelieve what you now believe, would you know who you are or would you have a sort of identity crisis? If you stopped believing as you do now, do you feel that you would you lose a part of who you are?

You ask a good question in “Maybe it is you who is delusion and I see things as they actually are.” Yes, perhaps I am and perhaps you are and perhaps we both are. So how can we know, how would we find out, what kinds of tests and experiments could we do to illuminate the answer. It isn’t good enough to simply say that we both might be delusional; therefore our views are equally valid. Either one of us is correct and the other is not, or we are both incorrect.
You know, I used to have a dualistic view on the nature of humans. I used to believe in the soul or the spirit as something separate from the body. I used to resonate heavily with the lyrics of Tool and the ideas behind the art of Alex Grey.

I guess my biggest question would stem from this statement that you made
“My faith is that i have a spirit, a soul, a divine spark that is connected to the ALL, the ONE, also known as "the source".”
What makes you think that there is an “ALL”, a “ONE” or “the source” and how do you know that you’re not just fooling yourself? What would it mean if you discovered that it’s probably not true, and that the real explanation for the subjective experiences that you’ve had are far more elegant and interesting than the ideas of spirituality that you currently hold?

To be blunt, I don’t think that you’re thinking this whole notion of an ego through far enough. It sounds like you’re just accepting the ideas as being true without going through the motions of analyzing what the concept implies. The notion of an ego implies several things; one of which is that we as humans are special to the degree that we have egos when, either, other animals don’t, or, other animals are better than us in controlling it. The questions then become, do other animals have egos? If so, how does the ego operate in them? Do other life forms, such as plants or bacteria, also have egos, or does the ego require a certain degree of cognitive function? If the ego does require certain cognitive functions to be noticeable, and since we are extremely closely related to other apes such as chimpanzees, do they also exhibit features of having egos? If they don’t and having an ego is strictly a human feature, what happened during the development of the brain that allowed for the access to what we might call the ego and at this point, do we really believe that the “ego” is actually something that exists outside of the brain? If it doesn’t exist outside of the brain than how can we separate who you perceive as yourself and what you perceive as the “ego”? Are all “ego’s” the same or is it brain dependent with variations depending on brain structure and chemistry? Can you see why I would say that the notion of the ego as something outside of or separate from oneself is inherently egotistical.

The way that you talk about the ego makes it seem mystical and somehow separate from “self”. To me, that sounds like someone trying to escape responsibility. Why not just cut out the middle man and admit that you, not your ego, has the tendency to be possessive, needy, insecure, wishes for self-aggrandizement, etc. The notion that “negative” qualities are part and partial of some sort of external thing that is separate from “you” just seems childish to me, not to mention, completely unsupported by research.

For myself, I suppose that I recoil at the idea of an “ALL”, or “ONE”, or “the source” because it doesn’t really answer any questions. If someone were presenting these ideas to me for the first time, I would immediately start asking questions like “What is it made out of, what kind(s) of particles?” “How does it perpetuate?” “What is the physics of this thing?” “By what mechanism does it connect to everything?” “How does a source not also have its own source?” “What tests and experiments can we do to learn more about this thing?” “What objective information do we have about it?” “Does this thing operate differently between animate and inanimate objects?” “If spirit or soul is inherent in the system, do animals and plants also have a spirit or soul?” “What exactly constitutes as a spirit or soul, what can it be defined by?” “Did “the source” have a beginning or a history?”

I think you understand my point. My problem with subjectively believing something is true is that it’s more susceptible to not going far enough in scrutiny. It is much easier to subjectively believe something that feels good or feels right and not go any further than that. Very few subjective beliefs translate into objective or rational understandings of nature; it’s very easy to get it wrong. Subjective beliefs are as prone to fallibility as humans are to irrational thinking.


In reply to this comment by enoch:
hmmmm..
i disagree with your statement that only the monotheistic religion control by fear.
buddhism (yes..buddhism) shinto,mayan,toltec,arminianism,zoroastriasm..the list is legion and they ALL have punishment/reward doctrine.each at varying degrees but its in there.

i do enjoy hearing an atheists perspective on how my faith translates.
very..analytical of you my friend.
suffice to say my faith is born from personal revelation and has been an ongoing revelation since i was 14.
nothing i have encountered or experienced has taken away from this revelation,in fact it has strengthened it.
could i be delusional?
i guess its possible.
or maybe it is you who are delusional and i see things as they actually are.
not trying to be an ass,just pointing out the subjective nature of this particular polemic.

i guess..in its most simplest of terms.
my faith is that i have a spirit,a soul,a divine spark that is connected to the ALL,the ONE,also known as "the source".
freud believed that the ego WAS who you were.i could not disagree with that more.
the ego is who you THINK you are.predicated and perpetrated by those who are close to you.
we cant help that.it is very human.
so around 12 yrs old we start to have a sense of self.this self understands the world and how he/she interacts with it by rules set by his/her parents.
as we grow older so does the circle of influence i.e:friends,lovers,teachers etc etc.
think about this for a second because i am expressing a very huge idea in a very short amount of time and glossing over all the implications of said idea.

my philosophy..or my faith if you will,views the ego as my "false" self.
the ego wishes only to validate itself (thats why mass marketing is very VERY effective).
the ego wishes to perpetuate its own existence by way of constant feed-back.
the ego gets jealous and possesive.
the ego gets insecure and needy.
the ego has demands...and desires...which seek only for self aggrandizement.
now societal roles consisting of compassion and empathy will,and can,curb the destructive nature of the ego (think your teenage years and just how self centered you were to give you an idea of ego gone wild)

through my faith and discipline i am quite aware of my ego and have suppressed it to the point where it no longer manipulates my thinking nor my emotions.
so i have no urge nor a desire to be perceived as "correct" because to me that is irrelevant.
(though i do prefer to be "corrected" if i misstate something).
i do not experience jealousy,nor envy.
but i do experience pride.
i do not allow anothers limited perception of me based on their own subjective reasoning influence how i feel about who i am.
i am open and honest because my faith is that we are all connected with the divine and to lie,steal or cheat you is to be doing to myself also.
i do not judge anothers faith or lack of it because that is THEIR path and the only time i ever feel the need to intercede is when it flows into my domain and affects me in some way.

even as i write these words,which to me seem pretty articulate and clear,i know that you will understand them based solely on..well..your understanding.
i do not say that as a slight but rather a statement.
trying to convey complex thought patterns by way of text can be so..limiting.

everything i do or say i do so with spirit in mind.
sometimes i fail..sometimes i succeed.
i am human.
with a spirit! ziiiiing!
anyways..
i really do enjoy our conversations.
you are a pleasure my friend.
namaste.
(look that word up btw..its a great word)

reminds me of alex grey

Successfully processed your "amazon" invocation - view all Amazonized posts here

>> ^Farhad2000:
I agree with skforty. Actually someone should post Tool Lateralus. Am sure this guy did massive loads of LSD.


This guy's studio is a modern Mecca for users. There, he and his followers--yes, they are followers--regularly have what would be called acid tests if they had been held in the 60s. I was invited to one way back when, but found myself without further need for that certain kind of exploration. I still hold his art in high regard, looking at it quite frequently in one of his books, which I will Amazon link to above.
*drugs

"I heard a voice tell me that the Chapel of Sacred Mirrors is a womb for the gestation of the awakening human spirit."
(from video at 3:06)
*cult

I'm into psychedelics, on Salvia I've experienced ego-death and seen visions like that painting of Alex Grey you see in the video. But I'm not into this psychedelic spirituality, I remain an atheist. I think why we experience these states on psychedelics says something about our brain, not about the universe. Psychedelics shed light on how we experience reality, not on reality itself.

This film is the first in a series of three films discussing various aspects of shamanism. This first film, Manifesting the Mind, is a broad look at psychedelics in general. Why are psychedelics so brutally suppressed in our culture? What exactly are some of the psychedelic plants and chemicals and how can they benefit us? With philosophy and insight from Denis McKenna, Daniel Pinchbeck, Alex Grey, and many others, this film is not to be missed by anyone interested in psychedelics and shamanism.

Interviews include - Robert Bussinger, Mike Crowley, Timothy Freke, Peter Gandy, Alex Grey, Clark Heinrich, Nick Herbert, John Major Jenkins, Dennis McKenna, Terence McKenna, Daniel Pinchbeck, Dr. Rick Strassman, and others.

I'm really looking forward to seeing this. The list of contributors at the end of the trailer is enough to make your hair stand on end. Rick Strassman's DMT book was truly astonishing. Nick Herbert is a genius. Terence and Dennis need no introduction and Alex Grey's stuff also speaks for itself. I have yet to read any of Daniel Pinchbeck's books but I enjoy his musings over on Reality Sandwich.

It's heartening to see such high quality productions like this starting to appear. Their message is made all the more potent by the sad and sorry state the human race finds itself in these days.

Also-
The Alchemical Dream - the history of alchemy
http://www.sacredmysteries.com/public/147.cfm
(torrents for this are out there!)

My favorite is from Lateralus by TOOL:

http://www.tprice.net/disco/tool/insidelateralus.jpg

Alex Grey does their artwork, and he's amazing.

Watched Cracking The Maya Code, I'll consider the Alex Grey vid.

In reply to this comment by guessandcheck:
hey a couple vids to check out on the netflix
Alex Grey - Sacred Mirrors lots of great detail.
Cracking The Maya Code

I'm pretty sure I'm gonna cancel my cable plan.

hey a couple vids to check out on the netflix
Alex Grey - Sacred Mirrors lots of great detail.
Cracking The Maya Code

I'm pretty sure I'm gonna cancel my cable plan.

Love the Alex Grey-inspired CGI.