The funny part about saying that "The Devil"™ runs things down here is funny. The reason it's funny is that even when I was a fairly religious person I could never quite figure out why "The Devil"™ was so evil.
He disobeyed "God"™, but that was about it. Apparently, now, he runs a place called Hel or Helle(or if you prefer the misspelled version: hille, hillja, hell, etc...). He's also able to tempt us (or if you wish, we let him tempt us, giving him even less power) to do things; who knows what though. He's also supposed to be a fallen angel that many think to be red and ugly with horns. It should also be noted that Hell (Hel) has lakes of fire (which sounds cool; almost like Hawaii), but seems to lack all the horrific stuff you hear of elsewhere.
I'm just wondering, why Lucifer (The Bringer of Light) is so "Evil"™? Also, last time I checked "Free Will"™ was sitting around; so if "The Devil"™ runs Earth, why do we need that? His role greatly differs throughout the Christian realm of knowledge as well as those that are linked (like Judaism, Islam, etc...). The idea of a bad guy against the ultimate good guy sent here or another place are in many religions world wide. Some of those religions pre-date Christianity by more than a thousand years and Judaism by hundreds (if not more). Sometimes these "figureheads" have been concentrated into one form as they were once in the form of many figureheads, besides "God" and "the Devil".
There is a litany of things attributed to: Satan, ha-sataan(Judaism has no "real" direct version), Baal Davar, the Devil, Lucifer, Lord of Flies, Dragon (or serpent; is "believed" to be the serpent in the Garden of Eden), Beelzubub (if you like the demon storyline; not a Mormon thing), Iblis, Shaitan, Jinn, Ying-Yang (pick one), Vishnu (atleast one aspect), Set, Apep,Sammael, Belial, ad nauseum...
Anyway, he disagreed with God "about something"; the "about something" depends on the flavor you belong to.
To cut it short: Christianity, Islam, Judaism, Zoroastrianism... They all suffer from the same problem: cognitive dissonance. Not a one holds up to a double-blind scientific experiment, let alone a simple thought experiment. If we have a "God" they most certainly are not prescient or omnipotent. The fact that I can post this kills one half of the logic, the other logic "free will" seems to be negated by every law and fact of science ever put together. You have choice, but it most certainly is not absolute.



If you were formally religious I am surprised you don't understand why the Devil is evil. I'll elaborate on this..

In the beginning, when man still dwelled in the Garden of Eden, he existed in a perfect state of grace with God. There was no such thing as sin, or death. Adam and Eve, the first humans, walked and talked with God face to face. God, to test their hearts, only gave them one command..not to eat of the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. He promised them that if they did so they would surely die.

Now the devil enters the picture. God had made him the most beautiful of all the angels, and gave him great power and dominion. The devil was soon corrupted by his own vanity however, because he started to think "I will be like the Most High" and desired to have his throne beside Gods. His sin was/is pride. Because of this, he was cast down to Earth.

Now God gave Earth to Adam. He was its ruler. Satan knew this, and knew that if he could corrupt him, he would gain power over the whole world because he would gain power over Adam. So the devil came to them and said that God was lying about the apple. That, not only would they not die, but they would become like God by eating it. After eating, Adam and Eve lost their innocence and the state of grace they enjoyed with God by sinning, and brought death into the world. From that moment on they were mortal beings with mortal needs.

Satan has been the ruler of this world since then. His power, however, was broken at Calvary when Christ died on the cross. Christ, the new Adam, lived a sinless life. Being born of a virgin, he did not inherit the sin of Adam. By living a sinless life, he redeemed mankind and gave all people on Earth a way to know God, His Father, through Him. When He died He went down to hell, battered down the gates, and took the power of death from the devil. When He was resurrected, He liberated mankind from the power of death, and was the first fruits of the world to come.

Now, Satan is still the ruler but on the run. He knows his time is short and growing ever shorter. His last shot is when the antichrist comes to power. Now, free will is fairly simple. You have the choice to obey or disobey Gods commands. God doesn't make you love Him. All those who delight in wickedness, however, will be punished on judgment day. Hell was not created for humans, but anyone who throws their lot in with the devil will earn the devils reward. His sin was pride, and so too are the ones who reject God similarly prideful, for they believe his lies and reject the truth.

That about sums it up. I would ascribe some cognitive dissonance to your post also, for your conclusions have seemingly been pulled from a hat. How does posting what you did negate anything about Gods omniscience, and how do the arbitrary rules of science say anything about free will? You may want to read about determinism vs free will for some background before you answer.

>> ^shinyblurry:

From a Christian perspective, the message itself is ridiculous because there is no way for human beings to create an ideal society. It doesn't matter if it is a democracy or a dictatorship. The ruler of this world is the Devil. Until Jesus returns, mankind will be subject to his rule, culminating when the Antichrist comes to power. This man does not understand the message and I doubt he is a real Christian.
As for all the wonderful people calling for Christians to disappear, etc, I'll make you a deal. If you don't use this guy as an example for Christians, I won't use you as an example for Atheists.


The funny part about saying that "The Devil"™ runs things down here is funny. The reason it's funny is that even when I was a fairly religious person I could never quite figure out why "The Devil"™ was so evil.

He disobeyed "God"™, but that was about it. Apparently, now, he runs a place called Hel or Helle(or if you prefer the misspelled version: hille, hillja, hell, etc...). He's also able to *tempt* us (or if you wish, *we* let him tempt us, giving him even less power) to do things; who knows what though. He's also supposed to be a fallen angel that many think to be red and ugly with horns. It should also be noted that Hell (Hel) has lakes of fire (which sounds cool; almost like Hawaii), but seems to lack all the horrific stuff you hear of elsewhere.

I'm just wondering, why Lucifer (The Bringer of Light) is so "Evil"™? Also, last time I checked "Free Will"™ was sitting around; so if "The Devil"™ runs Earth, why do we need that? His role greatly differs throughout the Christian realm of knowledge as well as those that are linked (like Judaism, Islam, etc...). The idea of a bad guy against the ultimate good guy sent here or another place are in many religions world wide. Some of those religions pre-date Christianity by more than a thousand years and Judaism by hundreds (if not more). Sometimes these "figureheads" have been concentrated into one form as they were once in the form of many figureheads, besides "God" and "the Devil".

There is a litany of things attributed to: Satan, ha-sataan(Judaism has no "real" direct version), Baal Davar, the Devil, Lucifer, Lord of Flies, Dragon (or serpent; is "believed" to be the serpent in the Garden of Eden), Beelzubub (if you like the demon storyline; not a Mormon thing), Iblis, Shaitan, Jinn, Ying-Yang (pick one), Vishnu (atleast one aspect), Set, Apep,Sammael, Belial, ad nauseum...

Anyway, he disagreed with God "about something"; the "about something" depends on the flavor you belong to.

To cut it short: Christianity, Islam, Judaism, Zoroastrianism... They all suffer from the same problem: cognitive dissonance. Not a one holds up to a double-blind scientific experiment, let alone a simple thought experiment. If we have a "God" they most certainly are not prescient or omnipotent. The fact that I can post this kills one half of the logic, the other logic "free will" seems to be negated by every law and fact of science ever put together. You have choice, but it most certainly is not absolute.

I loved Viggo Mortensen as Lucifer in this movie. I think it's on the sift too.

http://videosift.com/video/The-Lucifer-Effect-Understanding-How-Good-People-Turn-Evil

In reply to this comment by bleedmegood:
http://videosift.com/video/The-Lucifer-Effect-Understanding-How-Good-People-Turn-Evil-1

http://videosift.com/video/The-Lucifer-Effect-Understanding-How-Good-People-Turn-Evil-1

And Democrats aren't corrupt? Someone needs to come down from that tower.

I'm referring to a system that lends itself to corruption. See Philip Zimbardo's Lucifer Effect.

Netrunner, I can think of one thing. The 1913 Federal Reserve act. Woodrow Wilson member of the Democratic Party. How about the repealing of the Glass Steagall Act, President Bill Clinton?

How about the current president and Habeus Corpus for Bagram Airforce base detainees? Preservation of extraordinary rendition? Escalation of Afghanistan? Violations of Pakistani sovereignty?

You know what don't answer those questions. I don't want to see any more rationalizations for the two parties today. Freedom of choice be damned.

There are several good comments following that article. I particularly enjoyed the one basically saying that the militant Christians have become Lucifer's army.

>> ^Yogi:
Sorry forgot about the link to the expose.
http://www.texasobserver.org/dateline/he-who-casts-the-first-stone

I thought this movie was sweet too. There were weaknesses, but Gabriel and Lucifer were definite high points. *quality

Fantastic movie, fantastic scene. This scene blew my mind in the theater's (having no knowledge of the comic at all) - and I pondered the awesomeness of Lucifer effectively granting him life just in case he fucked up again.

I've been shot right out the sky
Navigating miles high
I'm just a ray of sound
Yeah look what I found
On my brand new journey into sound
I know you'll find piece of mind
On my punk paste race into space
I'm the silver surfer hearin' lucifer
Lay on the ground and nobody dies
Paradise is the place where the devil does his damndest
I'm the catalyst
A psychedelic twist
Like a dynamite reefer
I'll make you sweat and curse
As we travel at magnificent speeds around the universe
Lets travel at magnificent speeds around the universe
I'll keep travelling
Chasing the shadows
This ain't a game
We're coming by stealth
You know I got wealth
Brain carnage self

Speeding neck and neck with my own vision
Real clean incision
We'll be dancing frenzies
Slaughters visions
I'm a hot wet dripping psychedelic incision
Zeroes pure vision
This is stranger than fiction
A greater addiction
We'll never wish to never recover
I'm a skunk of a different stripe
And tonight
I'm gonna take flight
I'll take you on a journey into tomorrow
And together we'll banish all pain and sorrow.


I'm just a ray of sound sound
A ray of sound
Just a ray a ray a ray a ray a ray of sound
I'm just a ray of sound sound
A ray of sound
A sound sound sound sound a ray of sound

..that's over the top-
"Four thumbs up, for (G#)-♫ Xmas, Lucifer with flames-tiiime, this yeeeeaar!"♪♫ ♪

My life according to: Tori Amos!

Are you a male or female? Cornflake Girl

Describe yourself: Playboy Mommy

How do you feel? Caught a Lite Sneeze

Describe where you currently live: China

If you could go anywhere, where would you go?: Little Amsterdam

Your favorite form of transportation: Horses

Your best friend is: Father Lucifer

You and your best friends are: Beauty Queen[s]

What's the weather like? Raspberry Swirl

Favorite time of day: Bouncing off Clouds

If your life was a TV show, what would it be called?: Putting the Damage On

What is life to you: Liquid Diamonds

Your current relationship: In the Springtime of his Voodoo

Your fear: Blood Roses

What is the best advice you have to give? Take to the Sky

Thought for the Day: Hey Jupiter

How I would like to die: Me and a Gun

My soul's present condition: Professional Widow

My motto: Pretty Good Year

Capo 3rd

Intro: 
C //// C //// C //// G ////  F5  ////  C ////  G //// Am&nbs
p; //// G ////  F5 //// C //// G

C               G    F5     &n
bsp;        C            G    
 
please remember me, happily  by the rosebush laughing 
         C          G     &nbs
p;       F5                 C&
nbsp;                
with bruises on my chin, the time when, we counted every black car 
G
passing 
       Am               G  &nb
sp;        F5              C  
               G
your house beneath the hill, and up until, someone caught us in the kitchen
      Am                G  &nb
sp;          F5              &
nbsp;   C
With maps, a mountain range, a piggy bank, a vision too removed to 
     G
mention
         C           G    &nbs
p; F5                   C    &
nbsp;                    
But please remember me, fondly, I heard from someone you’re still 
   G
pretty
         C                
;G                    F5    
And then, they went on to say That the pearly gates, has some 
    C       G
eloquent graffiti
      Am             G     &nb
sp;          F5              &
nbsp;C 
Like, we’ll, meet again, and fuck the man And tell my mother not to 
G
worry
   Am           G         F5 &
nbsp;               C         
         G
And angels with a great, handshake And all is done in such a hurry
      C              G    &nbs
p;   F5             C     
And please remember me, at Halloween, Making fools of all the 
G
neighbors 
           C      G       &nbs
p;     F5         C          &
nbsp;  G     
Are faces painted white, by midnight, We forgotten one another
        Am            G    &nb
sp;       F5                 C
         G
And when The morning came, I was ashamed Only now it seems so silly, 

           Am          G   &nb
sp;         F5               &
nbsp;   C              G
That season Left the world and then returned And now your lit up by the Cit
y
        C            G    &nbs
p;    F5              C      &
nbsp;        G     
So, Please, remember me, Mistakenly In the window of the tallest 
        C                 
; G               F5        &n
bsp;             C       
tower  call, Then pass us by, But much too high, To see the empty road 
;at 
       G  
Happy hour
   Am         G            &nb
sp;          F5              C
        G
Leave, and resonate, Just like the gates, Around the holy kingdom
       Am                 &nbs
p;  G                    F5  &
nbsp;      
With words like 'Lost and Found' and 'Don't Look Down' And 
  C                  G
'Someone Save Temptation'
       C              G   &nbs
p;         F5              C &
nbsp;                    
And Please, remember me As in the dream, We had as rug-burned 
G
babies
C                   G     &nbs
p;        F5              C  &
nbsp;           G     
Among  the fallen trees And fast asleep Aside the lions and the ladies
         Am               &nbs
p;  G             F5         &
nbsp;    C               

That called, you what you like, And even might, Give a gift for your 
    G
behavior
           Am            G &nb
sp;          F5           C   
    G
A fleeting chance to see, A trapeze Swing as high as any savior

       C              G   &nbs
p;  F5                    C  &
nbsp;          G     
But Please, remember me, My misery, And how it lost me all I wanted 
         C                
;   G               F5      &n
bsp;            
Those dogs, that love the rain, And chasing trains
      C                   
;       G     
The colored birds above there running 
        Am           G     &nb
sp;            F5            &
nbsp;  
In circles round the well, And where it spells 
      C                  G&nbs
p;        Am        
On the wall behind St. Peter's So bright with 
             G            
;   F5               C      &n
bsp;      G            
With cinder gray, And spray paint 'Who the hell can see forever?' 
       C             G    &nbs
p;F5               C         &
nbsp;    G     
And Please, remember me, Seldomly, In the car behind the carnival 
     C                 G  &nbs
p;               F5         &n
bsp;           
My hand between your  knees, You turn from me 
                C         
;        G     
And said 'The trapeze act was wonderful 
        Am          G      &nb
sp;               F5         &
nbsp;     
But never meant to last', The clown that passed,  
         C               G&nbs
p;           
Saw me just come up with anger 
         Am               &nbs
p;  G                 F5     &
nbsp;       C       G     
When it filled, with circus dogs, The parking lot, Had an element of danger 
      C             G     &nbs
p;F5             C           &
nbsp;G     
So Please, remember me, Finally, And all my uphill clawing
      C           G       &nbs
p;       F5                 &n
bsp;   
My dear But if I make The pearly Gates
        C        G        &nbs
p;      Am         G         &
nbsp;           
 Do my best to make a drawing Of God, and Lucifer
           F5             C&nb
sp;           G            
A boy and girl An angel kissing on a sinner, 
       Am      G           &nb
sp;    F5                    &
nbsp;C       G            
A monkey and a man A marching band All around the frightened trapeze swingers 
 C          G       F5      &n
bsp;C      G      C
Na-na Na-na-na Na-na Na-na...

 C   G   F5  C   G   C
Am  G   F5   C   G   C

http://lyrics.wikia.com/Iron_&_Wine:The_Trapeze_Swinger

Please remember me happily
By the rosebush laughing
With bruises on my chin
The time when we counted every black car passing

Your house beneath the hill and up until
Someone caught us in the kitchen
With maps, a mountain range, a piggy bank
A vision too removed to mention

But please remember me fondly
I heard from someone you're still pretty
And then they went on to say that the pearly gates
Had some eloquent graffiti

Like 'We'll meet again' and 'Fuck the man'
And 'Tell my mother not to worry'
And angels with their gray handshakes
Were always done in such a hurry

And please remember me at Halloween
Making fools of all the neighbors
Our faces painted white by midnight
We'd forgotten one another

And when the morning came, I was ashamed
Only now it seems so silly
That season left the world and then returned
But now you're lit up by the city

So please remember me mistakenly
In the window of the tallest tower call
Then pass us by but much too high
To see the empty road at happy hour

Gleam and resonate just like the gates
Around the holy kingdom
With words like 'Lost and Found' and 'Don't Look Down'
And 'Someone Save Temptation'

And please remember me as in the dream
We had as rug-burned babies
Among the fallen trees and fast asleep
Aside the lions and the ladies

That called you what you like and even might
Give a gift for your behavior
A fleeting chance to see a trapeze
Swinger high as any savior

But please remember me, my misery
And how it lost me all I wanted
Those dogs that love the rain and chasing trains
The colored birds above their running

In circles 'round the well and where it spells
On the wall behind St. Peter's
So bright on cinder gray and spray paint
'Who the hell can see forever?'

And please remember me seldomly
In the car behind the carnival
My hand between your knees, you turn from me
And said the trapeze act was wonderful

But never meant to last, the clowns that passed
Saw me just come up with anger
When it filled with circus dogs, the parking lot
Had an element of danger

So please remember me, finally
And all my uphill clawing, my dear
But if I make the pearly gates
Do my best to make a drawing

Of God and Lucifer, a boy and girl
An angel kissing on a sinner
A monkey and a man, a marching band
All around the frightened trapeze swingers

>> ^Nithern:
He failed the 2008 simply due that most conservatives hate mormons (its something to do with mormons not being consider 'real christians').


Yea, I see Christians make fun of Mormans because of that new "crazy shit" they believe in. Apparently real Christians only believe in the old crazy shit.