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Bring it, H8ers.

They won't miss these added features because those primarily exposed to Apple's mass marketed products won't expect them by default. If Apple can define tablet PC to lack or not require GPS, a camera, possibly even Flash then that will define their expectations. I'm sure more are and will remain oblivious to the likes of the Archos 5G/9 which is superior to the iPad and does everything it should:

Archos 9 - $600
1.76 lbs.
1.1Ghz ATOM Z510. Runs Windows 7.
8.9", 1024 x 600 pixels resistive, LED backlight.
10.08" x 5.28" x 0.67" thick
7.4v Lithium-Polymer battery, 5 hours, removeable. 36W (12v @ 3a) power adapter.
HDD 60GB (1.8")
WiFi (802,11b/g), Bluetooth 2.0 (EDR)
Microphone.
Stereo Speakers.
Headphone jack.
1.3mp Webcam,
Optical trackpoint mouse,L/R mouse buttons.
Built-in Stand, 2-positions.
USB port.
Lotus Symphony included: Documents, Spreadsheets, Presentations.

iPad - Starting at $500, but $700 for that amount of hard drive space.
1.5 lbs.
1Ghz A4. Runs iPad OS 3.2.
9.7", 1024 x 768 pixels, capacitive, LED backlight, IPS, Oleophobic
9.56" x 7.47" x 0.5" thick.
25Whr Lithium-Polymer battery, 10 hours, fixed. 10W (5v @ 2a) power adapter.
16GB, 32GB, or 64GB flash memory.
WiFi (802,11a/b/g/n), Bluetooth 2.1 (EDR)
Microphone.
Speakers: Mono Audio.
Headphone jack.
iPad versions of iLife apps: $9.99 each (x 3).

Also I think the user utility associated with Apple's products is exaggerated. It's simplicity that they do well, and again the kind of people who are not aware of the customization they might appreciate, are missing out on and might benefit from are the same people that laud it. That and the fact that user utility feels like it's too often conflated with style. The scroll wheel on the iPod sure was a fancy marketing gimmick but having used a 5G iPod now for over a year, I would gladly get tactile controls back. There's simply no comparison, and really the only thing I can assume is Apple users who claim it's efficient have no frame of reference. The same can be said with OS X, sure it's full of stylish transitions, animations and some good features, but I'd wager especially with how familiar everyone is with Windows, it's no more of an efficient work tool. I see Jobs made a big deal about pointing out that the iPad will have a similar user interface to the iPhone. I think that drives home the point that there's nothing that immensely intuitive about Apple devices. They still must be learnt. People are simply more willing to invest time into learning to how to use an interface of a device that is more popular and they predict will be around for a longer time.

Coming back to the iPad, I still think even the average consumer is going to be pissed off by the lack of some features. It's pretty clear that they didn't just want to make a portable internet device that surpasses the iPhone in usability, they wanted to make something that clearly doesn't eat into the market share of their budget MacBook and MacBook Air. They could have loaded a desktop OS on it, but they purposely didn't. I think many will struggle with the idea that an internet device like this can't do Flash, doesn't have a USB port and can't run their favourite PC/Mac programs.

That may be it's downfall or marketing, and simplicity as you mentioned may win out. If Apple says 'revolutionary' enough, maybe they won't realise this device is bested by something that came out in October 2009.

"People who like good things will like this" implying that people who don't like this are bad people.

This is for you, but I think you've got plenty of it already.

As long as you enjoy where your hard earned cash goes, more power to you.

No OLED display? 10 hours battery time when idle then, no doubt.

>> ^rottenseed:
As long as you enjoy where your hard earned cash goes, more power to you.


There's no chance in hell I'm trading in my iSlut for this.

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No, it's 10 hours active use- if there's one area that Apple's advancing technically it's batteries. a 10 inch OLED screen would add an extra $450 to the price.
>> ^campionidelmondo:
No OLED display? 10 hours battery time when idle then, no doubt.

Exactly. I see lots of big PC based contenders for this iPad but they are so mired in features that I have no clue how many songs or books they hold .

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Well, that's what our moms and dada care about and Joe down in accounting. We're a bunch of nerds- so it's different.>> ^deathcow:
Exactly. I see lots of big PC based contenders for this iPad but they are so mired in features that I have no clue how many songs or books they hold .

What is the iPad?

Is it a computer? No. Technically, yes, but it's not a very good one. It's limited to what you can install on it, it doesn't have native inputs outside the 30-pin, and, hell, the browser doesn't even have Flash or give you an opportunity to install your own plugins.

Is it an eBook reading device? Of sorts, though the kindle is better on the eyes, has a longer battery life, has free 3G and the books from Amazon are five dollars cheaper on average. Kindle is also cheaper.

Is it a portable presentation tool? Maybe. I mean, it's certainly portable and small and light. The screen looks great, too, but you'll have to do all your presentations in Apple iWork instead of PowerPoint or Flash or whatever you're used to. It only docks vertically as the 30-pin is on the bottom of the device, so for horizontal presentations you will have to hold it.

Is it a digital photo frame? It only docks vertically so I hope you have only portraits. I hope you're also proud of yourself because you just paid five hundred bucks for a picture frame.

Is it a digital video player? The screen isn't widescreen. Fail.

Is it a large iPhone? No. The iPad doesn't make calls, silly.

Is it a large iPod Touch? Yes. Yes it is. It's a big fucking iPod Touch. Yay, Apple. You made a big fucking iPod Touch.

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When you buy one (and some of you will) - you have to back to this thread and explain how you didn't really understand- and that using it is so much fun because it "just works".

If there is no accelerometer I don't see how I could use apps where I shake maid outfits off 20 something Japanese girls either. Apple probably put the accelerometer in first though, because data from it can be used to void your warranty.

>> ^dag:
When you buy one (and some of you will) - you have to back to this thread and explain how you didn't really understand- and that using it is so much fun because it "just works".


My Macbook Air is in the shop. It stopped working. It's barely a year old.

I take it the OS will be restricted like the iPhone OS and won't be a slim version of OSX? So no flash, no firefox, no xvid/divx codec support, and so on. It's not widescreen? What is the AR, same as the iPhone?. No USB port??

I like Apple products. I don't use them much, but I recognize that they're providing valid alternatives for certain people. The funny thing is that alot of people subscribe to Apple products even though they'd be better off with non-Apple products. Ok so maybe this tablet "just works", but maybe that's just because it's missing half the stuff a tablet should have.

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Anecdote doesn't prove anything. My Macbook is 5 years old, I've mistreated it horribly, but it's still going strong. >> ^blankfist:
>> ^dag:
When you buy one (and some of you will) - you have to back to this thread and explain how you didn't really understand- and that using it is so much fun because it "just works".

My Macbook Air is in the shop. It stopped working. It's barely a year old.

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What's an example of people who would be better off with non-apple products - but still buy Apple?

>> ^campionidelmondo:
I take it the OS will be restricted like the iPhone OS and won't be a slim version of OSX? So no flash, no firefox, no xvid/divx codec support, and so on. It's not widescreen? What is the AR, same as the iPhone?. No USB port??
I like Apple products. I don't use them much, but I recognize that they're providing valid alternatives for certain people. The funny thing is that alot of people subscribe to Apple products even though they'd be better off with non-Apple products. Ok so maybe this tablet "just works", but maybe that's just because it's missing half the stuff a tablet should have.

To make a more precise critique of the iPad, I think it doesn't really know what it wants to do. It's half a phone, half a laptop, half a kindle, half a cintiq (well considerably less than half, but that's not a fair comparison) and not really aimed at anyone - or maybe rather, aimed at everyone. This is good for reading ebooks, webpages and so on, but so is a laptop. It is a (sorta) unique product so it might carve out what starts as a niche market and grows, lord knows apple are good at that, but I would think you can make better reader with E-ink or foldable/transparent OLED. I could be mistaken, of course.

Design wise it's hardly a revolution - it's a huge ipod touch with less features. That may be good enough, but I certainly don't want it - not at that price, anyway.

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They said the same thing about the iPhone - it's half a phone, half a music player, half an Internet device. By most people's standards that device has done pretty well.>> ^gwiz665:
To make a more precise critique of the iPad, I think it doesn't really know what it wants to do. It's half a phone, half a laptop, half a kindle, half a cintiq (well considerably less than half, but that's not a fair comparison) and not really aimed at anyone - or maybe rather, aimed at everyone. This is good for reading ebooks, webpages and so on, but so is a laptop. It is a (sorta) unique product so it might carve out what starts as a niche market and grows, lord knows apple are good at that, but I would think you can make better reader with E-ink or foldable/transparent OLED. I could be mistaken, of course.
Design wise it's hardly a revolution - it's a huge ipod touch with less features. That may be good enough, but I certainly don't want it - not at that price, anyway.

>> ^dag:
What's an example of people who would be better off with non-apple products - but still buy Apple?

All the people who buy Macs, because they have no idea

a) what kind of computer they need
b) what that computer should cost

I see it alot at work. People buying $1000 PCs to read their emails and do spreadsheets. They don't obtain any real information. Instead they watch TV and go "Ohhh look at that mac, it's so sleek and shiny. Apparently all the young hipsters and Justin Long are using them." I'm not saying apple products don't have their merits, but that's not what people buy them for anymore. Nowadays they're just status symbols, a sleek presentation with little content or innovation to back it up. $35 white earplugs with terrible, terrible sound.

I know you buy Apple products because you just like them for what they are and maybe because you've been using them for a long time, but that's not the M.O. of the average Apple customer (anymore).

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There probably are quite a few people who buy Macs for the shiny - but I would posit that those are the same people who would be better off with a Mac- because it's more forgiving to people who don't know what the hell they are doing. "It just works".



Having said that- Macs are also a machine for hardcore internet geeks. Here's a picture from 2 days ago - the lobby of the Googleplex and the Reddit engineers trying to figure out why their site is down. Macs "just work" for these guys too.

>> ^campionidelmondo:
>> ^dag:
What's an example of people who would be better off with non-apple products - but still buy Apple?
All the people who buy Macs, because they have no idea
a) what kind of computer they need
b) what that computer should cost
I see it alot at work. People buying $1000 PCs to read their emails and do spreadsheets. They don't obtain any real information. Instead they watch TV and go "Ohhh look at that mac, it's so sleek and shiny. Apparently all the young hipsters and Justin Long are using them." I'm not saying apple products don't have their merits, but that's not what people buy them for anymore. Nowadays they're just status symbols, a sleek presentation with little content or innovation to back it up. $35 white earplugs with terrible, terrible sound.
I know you buy Apple products because you just like them for what they are and maybe because you've been using them for a long time, but that's not the M.O. of the average Apple customer (anymore).

>> ^dag:
They said the same thing about the iPhone - it's half a phone, half a music player, half an Internet device. By most people's standards that device has done pretty well.>>



The difference is that the iPhone is a complete phone, a complete music player, and then has a couple of Internet-connectivity-features.

The iPad is not as good as a phone for phone things (too large), not as good of a media player for media-playing (very expensive for the amount of memory, too large for a portable music player, doesn't have USB for fast copying), and is almost as lackluster as the iPhone for Internet-things. It *does* have a better screen for Internetting, but at the same time it's less portable than an internet-enabled phone, and portability is the reason people put up with the iPhone's limitations.

That said, people will probably buy the iPad in droves. It's not something I'd pay more than $100 for, but I'm not their target audience.

Edit: It's also going to be worse for reading books (not like reading paper, shorter battery life) than a dedicated e-Reader (which the Kindle is also not the pinnacle of).

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I think we'll have to wait and see how half-ass their implementations are. From the things I've read, the Internet browsing experience is supposed to be really, really good. Likewise, I think their eBook program will be fun- with the ability to actually flip pages etc.>> ^direpickle:
>> ^dag:
They said the same thing about the iPhone - it's half a phone, half a music player, half an Internet device. By most people's standards that device has done pretty well.>>


The difference is that the iPhone is a complete phone, a complete music player, and then has a couple of Internet-connectivity-features.
The iPad is not as good as a phone for phone things (too large), not as good of a media player for media-playing (very expensive for the amount of memory, too large for a portable music player, doesn't have USB for fast copying), and is almost as lackluster as the iPhone for Internet-things. It does have a better screen for Internetting, but at the same time it's less portable than an internet-enabled phone, and portability is the reason people put up with the iPhone's limitations.
That said, people will probably buy the iPad in droves. It's not something I'd pay more than $100 for, but I'm not their target audience.
Edit: It's also going to be worse for reading books (not like reading paper, shorter battery life) than a dedicated e-Reader (which the Kindle is also not the pinnacle of).

Question.

This thing about the huge bezel or bevel or whatever.

Could you not have the screen extend to the edges but draw a border when you need it? If your fingers are on this virtual border nothing happens. Then the display could change to use the whole screen when playing a movie.

But I'm guessing the screen compromise is er a compromise.

Overall this is too locked down and lacks excitement. It's also expensive for what you get. It's an internet appliance not a multi-tasking personal computer without a keyboard.

Like others have said this would actually be a nice "My First Computer" for the PC illiterate.

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Yeah, I was pretty disappointed in the bezel too- have to think there is a method to their madness- and a valid UI reason why it's there. Even if you had a "temporary bezel" and let it go full-screen, it would be too hard not to touch the screen, triggering the controls.

The bezel on this thing is the handle. You need a safe place to grip it- where it's not going to inadvertently display your porn collection while you are carrying down the street. >> ^Deano:
Question.
This thing about the huge bezel or bevel or whatever.
Could you not have the screen extend to the edges but draw a border when you need it? If your fingers are on this virtual border nothing happens. Then the display could change to use the whole screen when playing a movie.
But I'm guessing the screen compromise is er a compromise.
Overall this is too locked down and lacks excitement. It's also expensive for what you get. It's an internet appliance not a multi-tasking personal computer without a keyboard.
Like others have said this would actually be a nice "My First Computer" for the PC illiterate.

Good point. I suppose if Dell had designed this there would have been an actual handle I'd get a Windows tablet (if it was cheap) to use as a media extender. The storage on these things including the ipad is very small. I'd keep some working documents on it but most data would be on my main PC.

>> ^dag:
Yeah, I was pretty disappointed in the bezel too- have to think there is a method to their madness- and a valid UI reason why it's there. Even if you had a "temporary bezel" and let it go full-screen, it would be too hard not to touch the screen, triggering the controls.
The bezel on this thing is the handle. You need a safe place to grip it- where it's not going to inadvertently display your porn collection while you are carrying down the street. >> ^Deano:
Question.
This thing about the huge bezel or bevel or whatever.
Could you not have the screen extend to the edges but draw a border when you need it? If your fingers are on this virtual border nothing happens. Then the display could change to use the whole screen when playing a movie.
But I'm guessing the screen compromise is er a compromise.
Overall this is too locked down and lacks excitement. It's also expensive for what you get. It's an internet appliance not a multi-tasking personal computer without a keyboard.
Like others have said this would actually be a nice "My First Computer" for the PC illiterate.

Someone doth protest too much.

Like some other commenters here, the iPad isn't designed for my needs, but I'm glad they made it. It advances the technology, and maybe I'll have use for some product down the line that benefits from this iteration.

Also, it further hooks society on great high tech products

Don't usually comment here, but I just wanted to point out that most of the content on this site will be inaccessible from an iPad. I really think that will be the one thing that kills the deal for a lot of casual computer/internet users; people have grown to know and love internet video. Nice device, but I'm waiting until HTML5 becomes ubiquitous or the iPad gets Flash.

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The iPad may run Flash - this isn't something that is known yet. But regardless, I use the mobile version of VideoSift on my iPhone all the time - YouTube works OK, though I would prefer a full-fledge version of Flash. HTML5 video is coming along pretty quickly too. I'm using it now for YouTube videos and it seems to work great.>> ^nafhan:
Don't usually comment here, but I just wanted to point out that most of the content on this site will be inaccessible from an iPad. I really think that will be the one thing that kills the deal for a lot of casual computer/internet users; people have grown to know and love internet video. Nice device, but I'm waiting until HTML5 becomes ubiquitous or the iPad gets Flash.

A jailbroken iPhone can run Flash. It works in a similar fashion as the YouTube videos, where you click the placeholder and it opens in an external app. Performance varies greatly depending on the Flash content, of course. It's called iMobileCinema.>> ^dag:
The iPad may run Flash - this isn't something that is known yet. But regardless, I use the mobile version of VideoSift on my iPhone all the time - YouTube works OK, though I would prefer a full-fledge version of Flash. HTML5 video is coming along pretty quickly too. I'm using it now for YouTube videos and it seems to work great.

If it does end up supporting Flash, it will be because of mounting pressure. Apple has made it clear they have no interest in allowing people to eschew their apps business model on the iPhone/Touch through custom made content they have neither control nor any financial claim over. No reason they would change their mind here unless they were compelled by dwindling sales or an outcry.

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I don't think it's just a financial consideration. Flash is a pig on OS X. I've yet to run a verssion that doesn't (eventually) chew up all the memory it can gobble.>> ^RedSky:
If it does end up supporting Flash, it will be because of mounting pressure. Apple has made it clear they have no interest in allowing people to eschew their apps business model on the iPhone/Touch through custom made content they have neither control nor any financial claim over. No reason they would change their mind here unless they were compelled by dwindling sales or an outcry.

I'm actually more impressed by the new Kindle DX. I'm no reader by any stretch, but the specs on that thing are impressive, most of all the fact that it's connected 24/7 for free via global 3G wireless so you can download/re-download books any time almost any place on Earth for a week straight on a single charge.

As lame as the iPad appears, I'm sure lots of know-nothings and all the Mac lemmings will buy it because Steve Jobs says it's magic. I myself can't imagine trying to use something so featureless if I have a laptop or tablet available. If I have to carry something so large around (meaning it doesn't fit in a pocket), then why would that something be a device on which I cannot install any programs (except thru the iStore), use any peripherals (like a keyboard), or use any Flash (potentially)? It doesn't seem a useful product for me if I'm going to be so iCrippled (patent pending) out of using all the normal things I'd be expecting from of a computer.

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An interesting article on Steve Jobs- and possibly his thinking on the iPad- in today's New York Times.

Please.

You know a year later the iPad EX will come out with all the features people actually want.

I think this is a far larger gamble then the iPhone was though.

Cocky to come out and say netbooks suck and put forward that's even less then a netbook.

>> ^dag:
An interesting article on Steve Jobs- and possibly his thinking on the iPad- in today's New York Times.


Badass

I said in the original thread that I thought it would fail, but also said that I was sure that Apple would prove me wrong as they seem to have been on the mark for a long time.

However.

It does not excite me in the slightest. The first thing that killed it for me was the horrible, horrible look. That enormous bezel, it's so big and chunky... I was hoping for something smooth and sexy and sleek... this ain't that.

So, I continue to lust after the Microsoft Courier be it a real product actually coming or not.

To have a little leather like bound notepad that I can open up and use my fingers and a stylus on just like a notebook, but have all my notes (I have a collection of pads that I've gone through at work with my notes and doodles) in a form I can actually search back through and cross reference and clip and paste things from the world (via its camera), or the web or... well... look, THAT gets me excited, and everyone I've shown that video to gets excited... it serves a tangible, simple purpose to me that nothing else does:

It replaces my physical pen and paper notepad.

And it does so in a way that solves problems I've had for ages:

* Where is that phone number I wrote down (flick, flick, flick... man, how long ago was it I wrote that down?)
* I can only really write in black as I'm not going to lug around many different pens or use one of those four colour doovies
* I can't easily clip and paste in pieces of reference into it
* I can't take my notes easily and transfer them by email


I want, want, want that product... I want that interface... I want it to be real, it actually solves problems I have

Now... the iPad, what does it solve?

Um

Um

Nothing.

It's inventing needs where there aren't any.

And that's why I don't want one.

But if you do... huzzah for the shopkeep... of course, being an Australian now, you're shit out of luck with actually getting any books with it as they refuse to use the open standard for eBooks. Apple continuing to limit options as they always do.

Maybe their site is down because they run on OSX Server. Maybe they'd have figured that out by now if they could get to a bash prompt and do some troubleshooting.

As for the iPad, I have seen the error of my ways. All this time I've been thinking of it as a crippled tablet PC when it's really an overpriced nook.

>> ^dag:
Having said that- Macs are also a machine for hardcore internet geeks. Here's a picture from 2 days ago - the lobby of the Googleplex and the Reddit engineers trying to figure out why their site is down. Macs "just work" for these guys too.

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Well, I don't know what Reddit runs on - but I'd guess standard Linux gear.

And if I want to get to a bash prompt on a Mac, I just open a terminal window and I'm there. Sometimes people forget that Macs have a BSD backend- and that's why it's often a hacker's laptop of choice- Perl, Apache, vi emacs, sed, awk and most of your other standard command line tools are baked right in.

>> ^xxovercastxx:
Maybe their site is down because they run on OSX Server. Maybe they'd have figured that out by now if they could get to a bash prompt and do some troubleshooting.
As for the iPad, I have seen the error of my ways. All this time I've been thinking of it as a crippled tablet PC when it's really an overpriced nook.
>> ^dag:
Having said that- Macs are also a machine for hardcore internet geeks. Here's a picture from 2 days ago - the lobby of the Googleplex and the Reddit engineers trying to figure out why their site is down. Macs "just work" for these guys too.

Reddit does actually run on linux servers, I was just being a smartass. I didn't realize Mac had migrated to bash, but I was being a smartass about that, too. I'm well aware that OSX is a glorified BSD. On one hand that's great for stability and such; on the other hand I could just install BSD on any hardware and not be tied down by Apple's lock-in strategies.
>> ^dag:
Well, I don't know what Reddit runs on - but I'd guess standard Linux gear.
And if I want to get to a bash prompt on a Mac, I just open a terminal window and I'm there. Sometimes people forget that Macs have a BSD backend- and that's why it's often a hacker's laptop of choice- Perl, Apache, vi emacs, sed, awk and most of your other standard command line tools are baked right in.