Another anti-American marxist, dead and buried. It remains true that everyone is entitled to their own opinions but not their own facts; every time facts meet Zinn rhetoric, the latter loses.

Howard Zinn, 1922-2010. He was a brilliant human.

I agree with what you're saying but it may be worth considering that Zinn was born in 1922; history may not have been taught this way when he was in school.
>> ^9058:
On the contrary i endlessly heard how we slaughtered indians and beat slaves. There was no patriotic reasoning for taking the land with violence and smallpox, just that we did it. So I cant help it if my propaganda alarm goes off in the back of my head when watching this.



I remember when I took Utah history classes when I was a kid the Mountain Meadows Massacre was still being taught as a slaughter at the hands of an Indian raid when historians have known for a very long time it was an organized massacre at the hands of Mormon settlers. This was only 12 years ago.

>> ^chilaxe:
I think by 'teach students to think,' Chomsky means teach them to be on the far left of the political bell curve. I went to a high school that loved Chomsky, Zinn, etc., and was generally 'by liberals and for liberals,' and that kind of thing is always going to obnoxious if you're not born with liberal neurogenetics.
Liberals won't believe in genetics for another couple of decades, so until that happens, they'll continue to accept no dissent from kids born outside their neurogenetic cluster.
Better to let kids find the path that's right for them, rather than try to strong-arm them.


i disagree.
i am not dismissing your point or what you experienced.i am sure thats what you saw but what i experienced was disgraceful and far different.
i'll give you a few examples:
i received an email everyday outlining my classes.
not only did it include what i was expected to cover but suggestions on how to teach the material.the data was strictly outlined down to parameters and time.
homework assignments and tests were not done by me.
i was not allowed any (well,very little) leeway in the curriculum.
no deviation was allowed.
so if i taught you that england amended the balfour declaration in 1922 after it's ratification in 1917.
what did you learn?
NOTHING.you learned a name and a date that is all.something to answer on a quiz.without context there is no learning.
if i can't get kids (i was teaching 8th graders at the time) to start to think for themselves by giving them the tools to dissect complex problems and all they end up doing is memorization then i have FAILED as a teacher.
NCLB (no child left behind) is set up for these kids to fail,creating little testing machines with no substantive tools to tackle the actual complexities of life.
this has nothing to do with liberal or conservative.the only politics being played out in the school system is the politics on capital hill and the kids are paying the price.
and here is something to think about....
those kids grow up.

there were many reasons why i left before the first semester was over and some of it was the politics.
politics from the federal government all the way to the school i worked at.
it disgusted me.it also saddened me how poorly educated many of the teachers were in the classes they were teaching.english lit majors teaching math.physics professors teaching general science.
it made no sense.
my first duty was to the kids in my opinion.
and my number ONE job was to get them passionate about learning by any means possible.
i was told..repeatedly i will admit..to stick to the course agendas.
the agenda was too fast paced and most of these kids were getting lost in the grooves.
blah...im ranting..
anyways..this is why i agree with chomsky.
i have seen the indoctrination at work and it does not serve the public nor the kids.

I think by 'teach students to think,' Chomsky means teach them to be on the far left of the political bell curve. I went to a high school that loved Chomsky, Zinn, etc., and was generally 'by liberals and for liberals,' and that kind of thing is always going to be obnoxious if you're not born with liberal neurogenetics.

Most members of the liberal community won't believe in genetics for another couple of decades, so until that happens, they'll continue to tolerate no dissent from kids born outside liberals' neurogenetic cluster.

Better to let kids find the path that's right for them, rather than try to strong-arm them.

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^ "for no other reason than it's the US doing it."

Where do the people on the right come up with this stuff... Oh yeah.. RUSH-bag.

Spoken like a true Blame-America-Firster. So which of the two bigger liars is your idol, Howard Zinn or Noam Chomsky?

>> ^westy:
maby this onyl aplie sin usa its not the case in uk , not with a number of people i know. its gneraly acepted that killing people is not constructive howevr justified it might seem


Wonderful speech. While I would agree the US is guilty on all counts, it does not stand alone by any means in the field.

UK (Tony Blair and gang) went into Iraq, giving the US their total support in that sham of a war. The UK had, and is currently involved in many joint US operations (some overt, most covert). Far more than most of us even realize.

To claim the UK is innocent of global domineering activities is incorrect. Lest we forget British history within past centuries. Occupation of India, Africa, Australia, and elsewhere during the colonial era. The number of non-conformist 'heathens', non-Christian 'natives', the 'uncivilized' if you will... who died for standing up to those who wished to exploit them for their resources... their slave labor. All for the benefit of the 'mother land'. Human capital expended for the benefit of the very few 'well to do'.

I for one would counter, that the UK proved to be a strong example for other strong, domineering nations to follow. Beyond the invasionary, exploitation mentality of the Roman Empire.. the UK is a strong contender for top prize. Taking into account all factors, extent of the empire, wealth taken, percent of resultant dead per population.

The cards are now in the hands of the USA. The question we should be asking is.. will the USA abuse that power, or use it wisely?

To think the US will maintain it's superiority indefinitely is completely naive. All great empires eventually end are are superceded by another. The USA has existed mere centuries. The Roman empire thousands of years.

For a bit of a play on words. A flame that burns too brightly will not burn as long. While I do believe the USA at it's core is good intentioned, it is those in power who have sway. How they exercise that power is what matters. So far, I have not seen much to change the path we are on.

We need to stop being shortsighted, and see the greater picture. As Howard Zinn stated. "Who Benefits?". It is a simple question... often with a very easy answer. Oil my friends. Iraq is all about Oil. Not 'good intentions'.

forgot to add that there is also commentary from Howard Zinn..my hero!
well..as a historian that is....

The intro incorrectly refers to Zinn's book as "A People's History of America" when in fact the title is "A People's History of The United States"

Here is the entire book: http://libcom.org/library/peoples-history-of-united-states-howard-zinn

>> ^quantumushroom:
When it comes to intellectual dishonesty and America-bashing, Zinn is in a class all his own.


"Intellectual" and "Honesty" are two words I would never associate with you, QM.

Based on that observation, you are really in no position to judge Dr. Zinn.

But go ahead...give it a try. Give me an example of his dishonesty.

When it comes to intellectual dishonesty and America-bashing, Zinn is in a class all his own.

An entire book online? For free? You don't say. Howard Zinn's "A People's History of the United States":

http://libcom.org/library/peoples-history-of-united-states-howard-zinn