The differences amount to...
1) The original has little transitions where they read passages from the Bible, the Torah, etc. They are missing in this edit.
2) When the man from Kashmir is explaining Issa, he's dubbed in this version. In the original, he's got subtitles.

Neither of these constitute added value. If anything, this is inferior to the original since it's missing 10 minutes of footage.

>> ^chicchorea:

With all due respect, while there is indeed overlap, they are not the same.
>> ^xxovercastxx:
Also, sorry enoch but this is a dupe. The original is right there at the bottom of the page in the related videos.
dupeof=http://videosift.com/video/Did-Jesus-Die-BBC-4-Documentary

ok.
i have stated this previously and in multiple posts.
lets define "god" for a moment.
and lets accomplish this without any religious influence or overtures...none.
because lets be honest,religion acts like it has the secret key to the hidden doorway.
which i find not only repulsive but dishonest.

lets see if we can agree on a few things.i shall use the monotheistic religions as example because using all 4500 would be..tedious:
1.god implies masculine.this is obviously a falsehood.why would god need sexual organs?
2.we are all made in gods image.again a falsehood.having never seen god how can we know?
3.the bible/q'ran is the written word of god.(i wont include the torah because jews do not make that pronouncement).again this is false,some basic research will reveal this statement to be an utter fallacy.unless of course you are a fundamentalist,and in that case..carry on with your wars of attrition /looking at you fundmantalist christians and muslims).
4.god loves you.unless you break these rules and in that case he has built a special place for you to burn for eternity (varying degrees of understanding here,even fundamentalists struggle with this obvious hypocrisy).conclusion=bullshit.


ok.i am going to stop because i could do this all day.
my basic point is that it is RELIGION that makes the claim that it is THEY who hold the keys to the gate.that only through THEIR understanding could any of lowly humans ever think to have salvation.
religion is man-made with tangible texts,doctrine and dogma and in being so is subject to criticism.as it SHOULD be.
these institutions define god and then attempt to compel through fear and..well..fear..to get people to comply.
in my opinion it is these very institutions which hinder the growth and development of us all as a species.
fundamentalism is the stunting of the spirit and the stagnation of the mind.
none of what i am saying here takes away from the poetry,literature and wisdom from the bible..it is RELIGION which perpetrates that crime.

everybody still with me?
am i making sense?
ok..now lets define god and lets do it in a way that religion will never do because it will make those institutions irrelevant.
(which ironically was the EXACT thing jesus was attempting to do..but i digress)
lets consider "god" an entity with immense consciousness.
let us for a moment imagine this consciousness giving birth to the universe from itself.
what is the first thing to come in to existence besides energy?
time.
and when that happened what else became evident?
everything became relative due to this added dimension.
let that sink in a bit because it has huge implications.
ok..
now if we continue on this thread of thought.this would mean that the universe is literally god.
every molecule.
every atom.
god.
and what if this creator put out only one simple edict for his construct?
create.
thats all.he sets the rules and puts only one line of code=create.
and everything his creations creates is part of him and he..it.
good..evil..arbitrary terms used to relate subjective realities focused from a singular perspective.
the creator does not notice them because all of it is the same to the creator.
WE make those very human definitions.
lets imagine for a second that the universe has a consciousness.one that we may be aware or unaware of,but we know we are an individual.
we have consciousness.
we do NOT know if a plant has a consciousness that we can measure but we may some day.
now if we are a part of this incredible creation called the universe and we have consciousness.this means we are aware of not only ourselves but the universe around us.
this means we experience creation on a daily basis.manifesting in so many dynamic ways:love,loss,anger,violence,wonder,imagination,making love,cheeseburgers with a cold beer etc etc
and in that light would not the creator experience its own creation subjectively through our experiencing his creation?

now this is not a new idea,in fact it is quite old but it does have the quality of not needing any religion,nor doctrine or dogma.
why not?
because in essence YOU are god and god is YOU.
if i had postulated something like this as early as 100 yrs ago i would be burned at the stake.
why? religion.
but this is the basic definition i use when i use the term "god".
it is also the reason why i have no urge to preach or proselytize.
the only thing i try to do is recognize that i do not hold the key nor the answers but i seek them and that is my path.
yours is your own and the only thing i can do is recognize that you are a spiritual being (whether you believe that or not) and respect your choices on how you wish to live.
because..in the end..they are YOUR choices.

now please understand i share this with you not to convince or to invite ridicule but rather to offer a different definition.
to me life is amazing in the very simple act of breathing.
of loving..
and arguing..ah..many thanks for those in my life for the glorious arguments.
this life is precious if only for those simple things.
is there an afterlife?
i believe so,what it looks like i have no idea but i know it wont be THIS life.
so cherish those who you care about because this is one helluva ride,and i am glad you all are here to enjoy it with me.

for those of you still here.
thanks for coming to the show!
dont forget to tip your bartenders and waitresses!
and thank YOU BRM for taking the time to discuss things of this nature with me.

I'm sorry... how exactly does one apologize for being a supporter of atrocious medieval practices? And how exactly did he apologize?

He posted a completely idiotic rant on his page, not apologizing mind you, but excusing himself. Completely diferent.

Here's what he said:

I never called for the death of Salman Rushdie; nor backed the Fatwa issued by the Ayatollah Khomeini--and still don’t. The book itself destroyed the harmony between peoples and created an unnecessary international crisis.
When asked about my opinion regarding blasphemy, I could not tell a lie and confirmed that--like both the Torah and the Gospel--the Qur’an considers it, without repentance, as a capital offense. The Bible is full of similar harsh laws if you’re looking for them.[10] However, the application of such Biblical and Qur’anic injunctions is not to be outside of due process of law, in a place or land where such law is accepted and applied by the society as a whole... [11]

So basically he's saying: "hey, I didn't ask for his head. But if a court thinks his head should be cut off, then I'm ok with it". He's a fucking worthless piece of shit, who tries to cover his stance on this subject. Oh, and please notice the line about how the book destroyed the harmony between peoples and bla bla bla... OH... so it's the books' fault that people like you are idiots?? Oh.. what a wonderful apology.

>> ^Skeeve:

I'd like to see some stats on the amount of scientific research done by atheists as opposed to research done by religious people. We already know that the majority of people in academia are non-religious, does that carry over into the research? In that case, I think it would show that the religious people are really the parasites.


Yeah, the vast majority, 'today' being the key word. It seems only correlative though. I don't see how its relevant except in the kook's eyes. Playing to that game, the vast majority of scientific discoveries throughout history were made by people who HAPPENED TO HAVE HAD religious beliefs and would only further strengthen his bizarro logic. Its just not relevant at all. Progress is made in spite of this vile shit, not because of it.

Speaking of parasitism, something something about tax-exempt status in America while demanding even more special privileges and contributing virtually nothing. Not enough? How about Ultra-Orthodox Jews who dedicate their lives to Torah study in Israel basically being on payed state-welfare for their entire lives? The only group who holds such a privilege in the entire country; these fucking nutters who think Armageddon can't come soon enough and are purposely trying to steer the Middle-east towards conflict. All the while trying to erode/undermine the remaining secular values their government guarantees and that the normal every-day WORKING folk there pay for, not these fucking leeches scratching and clawing to hold on to their remaining power as it increasingly slips through their fingers.

Hypocrisy is basically a prerequisite if you want to be a part of their club. I have to live with this ignorant crap everyday, family dinners are a fucking ball and a half! It really disturbs my family for them to know that they're related to a "Nazi", err I'm sorry, a "Natzi". Do these idiots not realize the similarities in rhetoric they share to a certain someone who basically sought to eradicate them completely, not too long ago? Have they no sense of decency/self-respect, no sense of history?

These people are out there in droves. America is in for some rootin' tootin' good times if these people are genuine about their desires for "revolution". Tea-baggers fucking disgust me. Big surprise that they also scare the ever-living shit out of me and most other sane, rational folk. Its impossible to argue with these people in good faith, stop by for dinner with the family if you doubt me.

/toggle ramble off

There's an interesting piece in the New York Times about Islam that might shed some light on this issue. Wright argues that members of each religion need to pick and choose which parts of their texts to follow and the need for interpretation. For example he points out that the Bible and Torah also have passages that explicitly call for violence:

"So too with people who see in the Bible a loving and infinitely good God. They can maintain that view only by ignoring or downplaying parts of their scripture.

For example, there are those passages where God hands out the death sentence to infidels. In Deuteronomy, the Israelites are told to commit genocide — to destroy nearby peoples who worship the wrong Gods, and to make sure to kill all men, women and children. (“You must not let anything that breathes remain alive.”)"

If snarky, offensive videos like this didn't exist, we wouldn't know about these wacky machines. This is awesome! Torah Technologies! I want one.

>> ^joedirt:

she is an idiot.
You can find even worse examples in the Torah or Bible. So this is retarded. Yes, life WAS different hundreds of years ago.


Did you even watch the video? Whether or not life was different is irrelevant. Muslims look to the life of Muhammed as an example of how to live.

I admire Caesar and Genghis Khan as strategists and leaders, but at the same time I can recognise that both were guilty of what would be considered hideous atrocities in modern times. As such, I don't look to them for moral guidance. Unfortunately, Muhammed is not viewed with the same filter.

The girl is not an idiot. The video is addressing responses from her critics and not the more general case of what's the most murderous religion - it's not retarded. The examples in the Qur'an may not be the worst in religious text but they are bad and illustrate what she was arguing clearly. Examples in the Torah or the Bible would have been completely out of context here.

>> ^joedirt:

she is an idiot.
You can find even worse examples in the Torah or Bible. So this is retarded. Yes, life WAS different hundreds of years ago.

>> ^joedirt:

she is an idiot.
You can find even worse examples in the Torah or Bible. So this is retarded. Yes, life WAS different hundreds of years ago.



She addresses your criticism in this very video when she says that Muslims hold Mohammed as a timeless example of a moral person.

Even (most) Christians accept that violent Old Testament figures such as Joshua were a product of their times and specifically directed by God.

Your obvious enlightenment does not spread to the millions of people with faith in this world.

she is an idiot.

You can find even worse examples in the Torah or Bible. So this is retarded. Yes, life WAS different hundreds of years ago.

I'm afraid I don't have the figures. Maybe you could help me. I'm sure you must have researched it as you are so passionate about the subject.

What is the subsidy per university student (obviously taking into account subsidies for the university) and the subsidy per Torah student?

A significant chunk of these places are funded via private donations. Yes, I pay my taxes. And I pay another 10% of my income giving money to just such institutions.

Regarding the whole bread thang, http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/973054.html is quite interesting. Basically, you can buy bread. Just don't be a jerk and wave it around everywhere.

My cool level-headedness goes away when the other guy tells me that my driving a car on my street on a saturday offends him, and I should stop.

My cool level-headedness goes away when the other guy tells me I can't buy bread in April because Jews leaving Egypt couldn't make bread millenia ago, so now I can't.

My cool level-headedness goes away when the other guy tells me I have to work hard and pay taxes so that he can live with his wife and 9 children and study Torah all day long.

My cool level-headedness goes away when the other guy tells me that my taxes have to be spent on the military because God said this land is ours and no one else's.

My cool level-headedness goes away when my life is affected on every turn by the other guy's faith, and I've grown so accustomed to it that I don't find it odd anymore.

I'd downvote this if I could.

We all know the Bible/Torah/Koran etc all have stupid shit in them and the joke has been done to death, you won't ever win a debate quoting this stuff, nor are you likely to entertain or enlighten anyone except already like minded people. What you will get is one of the following replies:

1. Old times, Americans had blacks slaves for X long, the British had Indian slaves for X long...

2. It's only a story/metaphor/shouldn't be taken literally.

3. So? Hitler was an atheist! (don't ask me why this has any relevance, even though not true but it comes up a lot)

4. Your favourite circular logic goes here.

While I'm all for ridiculing the absurdities of religion, I think there is better and smarter ways to go about it, these are very easy targets.

Quantummushroom,
“The point is that there are thousands of religions in the world, contradicting each other, and solely on the basis of the mutual contradictions most of them have to be wrong.”
You’re conclusion is indeed correct!

If all the religions have their origin from the Creator, [proof for a Creator, see my blog: bloganders.blogspot.com (left menu)) it implies that the contradictions betweens the religions reflect a self-contradicting Creator.

No eminent scientist represents that our perfectly-orderly universe can be explained ex nihilo without a Prime Cause.

Being logically consistent (orderly), the universe must mirror its Prime Cause / Singularity-Creator—Who must be Perfectly Orderly; i.e. Perfect. Therefore, no intelligent person can ignore that our purpose and challenge in life is learning how we, as imperfect humans, may successfully relate to a Perfect Singularity-Creatorwithout our co-mingling, which transcends the timespace of this dimensional physical universe, becoming an imperfection to the Perfect Singularity-Creator
An orderly Creator necessarily had an Intelligent Purpose in creating this universe and us within it and, being Just and Orderly, necessarily placed an explanation, a "Life's Instruction Manual," within the reach of His subjects—humankind.

It defies the orderliness (logic / mathematics) of both the universe and Perfection of its Creator to assert that humanity was (contrary to His Tor•âh′ , see below) without any means of rapproachment until millennia after the first couple in recorded history as well as millennia after Abraham, Moses and the prophets. Therefore, theCreator's "Life's Instruction Manual" has been available to man at least since the beginning of recorded history. The only enduring document of this kind is the Tor•âh′ —which, interestingly, translates to "Instruction" (not "law" as popularly alleged). [Source and more extensive reasoning: www.netzarim.co.il]

Religions that contradict with Torah cannot therefore describe a religion from the Creator.

Anders Branderud

that was a fantastic video!you should post it.i think its a valuable component and a great tutorial.
i agree wholeheartedly with the videos premise,and i think it also strengthens my position.
let me explain:
the reason why i stated it would be futile to argue one way other the other matters concerning faith was expressed quite eloquently in the video you shared.
i have no concrete evidence or data that can concretely convince you of anything.however,i do not reject or dismiss the findings of science in order for me to retain my faith.so while you will find me agreeing with you on many subjects concerning science,you will also find i will not put any facts on the table concerning my faith.because there are no facts and i am very aware of this.
maybe it would help if i gave you an idea how i view things:
http://www.videosift.com/video/Perceiving-Reality-A-useful-philosophy
notice the lack of dogma?of a bearded white dude with jealous,genocidal tendencies?
a total lack of judgment?
the video i shared is a very over-simplified explanation of how i view reality.
could i be wrong?
of course.my faith is not based on a book,or a theology so i have the freedom to be curious and ask questions.my faith is organic in its ability to evolve along with my understand of the universe.so if anything defines my faith,it would be science.
which is only limited by our ability to observe and test.
in my opinion,science is the testing and validating the observable physical universe.basically..the study of the creator.the more science uncovers the more that is revealed that is beautiful,poetic and far more complicated than any doctrine or dogma could ever imagine.

i state i am a man of faith because thats what it is..faith.i have faith that we all have a divine spark.a part of us that is sacred and connected to the creator/god/goddess/buddha/the All,whatever you wish to call it.we are all co-creators..we are all just "potential",raw and un-tapped.i cannot prove with any conclusive evidence that what i feel/think is correct.so it must be called what it is...faith.
we are mind/body/spirit.
i say this with conviction,but i have no way to prove this to you,and to try without any measurable means would insult you.so i dont try.

i shall give you one example where i hope you have experienced to relate,somewhat ,to what i am attempting to convey:
ever love a woman? ever love her so completely that when you were together it seemed you fell into her?and she you?where you both seemed to have created a space that was so lovely as to be over-powering?that when you were together time seemed to stop?
would you be insulted if someone said to you "bah,thats just chemicals and hormones.nothing more,nothing less".
but you KNEW..it was more,and to reduce it to mere chemicals and hormones just cheapened the experience.and if it IS just chemicals and hormones,electric synapses firing.then we should be able to replicate this affect yes?
but we cant..not yet at least.
is there something more? is it possible?
understand i am not trying to convince you of anything,i am just asking the same questions i ask myself.one of the millions i ask myself.
i left the church at 14 due to my pastors absolute failure to answer my questions.
because if you do a little research and study the history of the bible,qu'ran,torah et'al dogma and doctrine will fall short everytime.they are man made...its obvious.
but what of those questions?the answers is what i find most intimate and revealing.

i believe,through the experiences and encounters,that we are more than our sum parts.what that actually is,i do not know,but i am "faithful" we are more and shall continue to ask the questions.it is also for this reason i do not try to convince anybody else that my "faith" is valid in their eyes.that would be me seeking validation,and i need none.

the only thing i am wary of,and i think its a large reason why i do not attempt to convince anybody of my faith,is the trap of conflation.to use information and mold it to fit my world view.religious people do this ad nauseum,as do consprisy(sp?) theorists and politicians.while being faithful may fly in the face of logic,i do my best to employ logic as often as i can.
but when your questions deal with things outside the realm of the phyisical universe sometimes all you have is faith.

i am thoroughly enjoying this conversation my friend.i am doing my best to construct complete sentences and paragraphs for you.but i am the run-on-sentence king.you on the other hand,write beautifully.
thank you very much for your insight my friend.
the conversation continues.
till next time...namaste.