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PFAS: Last Week Tonight with John Oliver (HBO)

bremnet says...

Howdy - I don't know if "addressed" is the right word. Commented on, but not given sufficient perspective. Having said that, the problem is incredibly complex, so there should be no expectation that Mr. Oliver's video or any other single thesis on the topic could possibly suffice.

Your "one chemical bond difference" is an appropriate consideration, but with recognition that once we reach on the order of C20-C40 length dispersable or emulsifiable molecules as surfactants / surface energy modifiers, the insoluble polymers come into play, with not 30'ish bonds growing one at a time, but leaping to 20,000 or more. No doubt the pool has already been irreversibly pissed into by the irresponsible producers that convert small molecules into very, very large ones, but with some control, responsibility, and integrity in our industrial process owners (yes, hell just froze over) there is no reason why we could not safely continue to produce the polymeric forms of PFAS. We do so for substantially more toxic chemical conversion processes today.

It's interesting to note the (usual) examples brought forward by others in this post (Teflon cookware), just waiting for someone to mention Gore-Tex, but by far the biggest impact won't be on consumer goods that we all touch regularly and recognize the name brands of, but will be on the industrial / commercial uses of these polymeric families that are pervasive in the systems / processes that we all derive benefit from every day. Ironies exist, that perhaps confuse the "all PFAS are bad" premise ... consider - effectively every seal, gasket and control valve in a water purification plant is most commonly made of a PFAS polymeric compound, PTFE included, all tested to rigorous specifications and compliance by specific agencies that do nothing other than deal with potable water (thankfully not the EPA - it's National Sanitation Foundation (the other NSF), or Water Research Advisory Scheme (WRAS) in the UK etc.) .

So my contention and the view of many in the end user community is that it's not the final form of some of these compounds that are bad, it's the horrendous messes we leave producing them. We can't unwind our Clock of Dumb, but killing the entire crop just to get rid of the long ago seeded weeds doesn't solve the actual problem, it makes it much, much larger.

Thanks for your comments.

newtboy said:

To be fair, most of your complaints were addressed in the piece.

For instance, medical implants, fairly stable, yes, but not in extreme heat like cremation, so as used they’re toxic to the environment despite being considered stable and inert.

The reason to ban them all was also explained, banning one toxic substance at a time means one chemical bond difference and the company can go ahead with Cancer causer 2.0 for a decade until it’s banned for being toxic, and then repeat. It’s how they’ve operated for decades.

I’m fine with outlawing the entire class and putting the onus on the chemical companies to prove any new variants are safe instead of forcing the hamstrung epa to prove they’re unsafe. I also think any company that dumped it into waterways should be instantly and completely forfeited to pay for cleanup. No company has the funds to pay for cleanup, but their assets are at least a start.

Abbot Claims Prosecuting Rape Will Eradicate Rape In Texas

newtboy says...

Turns out there is a backlog of well over 5200 rape kits in Texas that are awaiting testing, and over 230 police departments that didn't report how big their backlog is, so that number could easily be doubled or more.

Hard to believe he's a bit serious about stopping rapes in Texas considering his track record on getting them investigated or prosecuted, and that he hasn't requested any more funding for testing kits or investigating rapes to go along with this attack against rape victims.

TX law & tattoos

Mordhaus says...

I'm from Texas. I support Abortion. No contraceptive is 100% effective, not even if you combine them. If you don't understand that, study how percentages work.

Secondly, kids are hormonally driven creatures. They are literally under the influence of natural chemicals driving them to procreate.

Not every school or parent teaches them about contraceptives. In fact, you will find most 'Christians" only support abstinence. This is the equivalent of telling a chemically dependent addict to "Just Say No!" How well did that work in the drug war back in the day? (Hint: However, despite DARE's bold claims, research has shown that the program has failed spectacularly.)

Third, the people who are most affected by this new law are the people that can least afford the better contraceptives or having a child in a non-stable family environment. This won't bother a middle class or rich family at all, they can just send the kid off to an "aunt" in another state until the issue is resolved. Those kids from poor families will just be forced to have the kid and likely it will ruin their lives. This doesn't even take into account that the new law doesn't have ANY exceptions for rape or incest.

Fourth, the USA was founded on religious freedom. In other words, you get to believe what you want and others get to do the same. This means that if a religious person tells another person that something they are doing is forbidden due to morality contained in their religion, that other person can tell you to fuck right off. Church and State are supposed to be separate, but the Christian right think they should be able to legislate their religious ideas on others. Do you not see the hypocrisy here?

I'm nominally a conservative. Sadly that means that I get lumped in with you ultra far right wackos that want to turn the USA into a religious state like Iran or Afghanistan. I'm not leaving my home state because some religious nut jobs think it is OK to kill adults by lethal injection but that it is BAD to kill some cells that are multiplying.

Btw, the cardiac activity detected on ultrasound at six weeks is not a true heartbeat. It results from electrical activity, but the valves of the heart have not yet formed. And the sound does not indicate the pregnancy is viable. Women typically don't notice they are pregnant until they miss a period. So if they are unlucky, they may already be close to four weeks pregnant. That leaves them two weeks to confirm it with a doctor, since home tests are not 100%, get together money for the abortion, find a clinic, and schedule an appointment that falls within the remaining time period. Since this law will cause even more clinics to close in Texas, you can add travel and patient backlog to the time. A teen could do everything right and still miss out on the lottery for an appointment, dramatically changing their life for years.

But at least some smug religious person can sip their coffee and be proud they enforced their morality on some evil women that dared sleep around out of wedlock.

Horsey Vax: The Alternative Medicine for Anti-Vaxxers

noseeem says...

"Hannity-watching"? Horse paste user?

Sometimes, have to believe the Republicans/Right-wing are just testing how far they can push their believers.

Waiting for Step on a Rake for Freedom Day.

Mordhaus (Member Profile)

Granny those cookies are not for you

luxintenebris jokingly says...

Almost everything is a dog treat.

Think those are harmless. The ones, that know about, are flour-based. No butt or testes flavors added.

Have several vids kept for 'need a laff' days.

the pièce de résistance of most personal favorite LMAO vids is the sounds or phrases used.

NYC's Anti-Vax Rally in 49 Seconds

newtboy says...

Sorry, but you and @luxintenebris are confusing intelligence with knowledge. IQ measures your problem solving skills and ability to learn and adapt that new knowledge to new and different situations, it does not just test your knowledge in certain areas.

It's the difference between being shown how to do a task VS being able to figure out how to do a task on your own.

SFOGuy said:

I know a fair number of smart people who have bad skills in epistemology, who have very odd anti-tax beliefs.

But whose IQ in their area of expertise is high. Some, not too oddly, are frankly on the spectrum.

Others have been quite successful and intelligent in a narrow area and then--sort of ail outside it. A bit, I suppose, like a lot of us. Only on this matter, it matters.

NYC's Anti-Vax Rally in 49 Seconds

newtboy says...

Texas held a similar rally in late July....the organizer, 30 year old Caleb Wallace, showed signs of covid by July 30 but refused testing or treatment, opting for vitamins and ivermectin, a horse dewormer conspiracy theorists have decided is some kind of covid medicine (it's not), and was hospitalized shortly thereafter and has been in icu since Aug 8 near death. His family, pregnant wife and three young kids, is begging online for funds to pay home and medical bills. The hospital has asked his family to sign a do not resuscitate order because they have no treatment options and are running out of oxygen thanks to so many anti vaxers filling the hospitals.
So far they have refused to sign, forcing the hospital to continue to treat him, meaning someone else with a chance to survive can't get a hospital bed and they will die too.

This guy spouted some of the most dangerous, anti science, anti medicine conspiracy theories and lies for a year, and worked hard to stop any actual medical advice from being followed.

No one deserves this outcome more. If only he had to live with it...death seems like he's getting off easy, leaving his family and the rest of us to live with the consequences of his choices.

America really flew the U-2 spy plane off aircraft carriers

newtboy says...

Unconvinced.
Why would they try to land on an aircraft carrier, breaking the plane every single time by scraping the wingtips off on the deck? In air refueling means it would never be required, and a total lack of stealth makes it just stupid, landing strip width makes it incredibly difficult to land a plane over 3 times the wingspan of an F16, especially one as in precise and hard to fly as a u2….and impossible to store off the deck, making the carrier useless until the U2 was removed.

On land they had chase cars that drove under the wings at landing, installing the wheels and/or keeping the tips off the ground.

Not trusting this internet source…beware unknown sources.
There’s a reason there wasn’t one shot of a successful landing, the best they had was a 3 point landing with the wing as point 3. At best this was a failed test, not a functional program.

Friendly humpback whale

Denver cops refuse mandatory Covid vaccinations

luxintenebris says...

was gonna post this...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P5DEGa0_AAo

...but thought it was appropriate in the discussion.

it's a public safety issue. easy to see if one looks at the actual reality of the situation.

Here are a few of the values listed in the Denver Police Department Operations Manual*...

- Integrity: Faithful performance of our duties and always doing the right thing for the right reason
- Accountability: Demonstrating responsibility in all activities
- Respect: Treating others as we would like to be treated
- Customer Service: Exceeding our customers’ expectations

... so if they ask employees in retail to wear masks, factory workers for drug tests, or a hairdresser to pass hygiene training - it's not a stretch to ask a cop to get a vaccine. their own handbook calls for getting vaccinated.

again, public safety.


Can y̲o̲u̲ respect that?


* http://kpm106.com/LEO/LeoDocs/04-15book.pdf

TangledThorns said:

Your body. Your choice. Liberals should respect that.

I Changed Astronomy Forever. He Won the Nobel Prize for It.

newtboy says...

Kind of, but the head of department is morally and ethically obligated to make note of the subordinate who made the actual discovery or breakthrough and usually shares the prize at least if it doesn’t go directly to the discovery maker alone. This is especially true when the head misinterprets and discards the data and denies any discovery was made until the discoverer, on their own, forms a hypothesis, tests it, and repeats it, all without the head of department’s involvement.

In this case, one person made the discovery and the department head dismissed it, then that subordinate on her own continued her investigation and formed her own hypothesis, tested and verified it, and only then her department head became convinced, then took ALL credit for the discovery with no mention of her. That is NOT how scientific teams work.

This wasn’t just her discovery, she figured out what it was too…her hypothesis and her testing, her repeating the discovery, almost certainly her writing it up. If she were a man, she definitely would have gotten credit for both the discovery and the hypothesis, and for confirming her hypothesis. She might not have been given the “prize” individually, but she would have definitely gotten the credit and shared in the accolades. (I think a male in the same position would have shared the prize at a minimum, and had the department head claimed credit as they did here, would have publicly disgraced the department head by proving they not only had nothing to do with the discovery, they had dismissed it when shown and added nothing at all to the hypothesis or testing it, and they would have been drummed out of the scientific community for plagiarism and theft of intellectual property).

When he dismissed her findings completely, he removed himself from the discovery and she became group leader of her own separate project. She deserves both prizes, both monetary awards, a public apology from the man who stole her work without giving her credit, and a serious civil judgement against him for any bonus, advancement, raise, accolades, or paid engagements he received based on his lie that he discovered pulsars. That’s her money that he stole.

vil said:

OK I will take a risk on this one. Every scientific breakthrough is supported by scientific personnel who run experiments and collect data. The head of the laboratory or institution gets to interpret the data and get the Nobel Prize. That is how teams work in science.

Its even in the video, getting the discovery discovered is a lot of tedious work, someone has to find the anomalous signal, that is great, someone else then gets to state a hypothesis about what it means, which when it proves to be right gives them the prize. Seems fair. Even if its just one on one student and professor, unless the student comes up with a fundamental concept, just noticing an anomaly does not make a Nobel Prize laureate of the student. Even if his line of search is originally against the opinion of the professor.

Now arguably in this case Ms. Bell made a bigger contribution than just collecting data and if you juxtapose that with how women were treated back then, its a nice story. But if she were a man in the same position there would be no Nobel Prize either. And possibly no compensating prize years later.

And yes she deserves her prize, I believe.

Covid Scientist Arrested For Honest Evaluation Of Florida

newtboy says...

It totally agree, @eric3579. Who can be trusted? It's harder to know every day.

My take....
Jones is right about the science, false negatives imply you've never been exposed when you have been, so people believe they cannot transmit the virus when they may in fact be infectious, which can lead to reckless nondistancing behavior and infections because they assume they're "safe"... also even a good (not false) positive antibody test does not mean they have meaningful immunity nor does it mean they aren't infectious as this woman claims. It only means you've developed some detectable antibodies to the virus. Period. Both misconceptions are big concerns. "Which is bigger?" seems like a silly fight.

The problem is, no matter what the test says, people think it means they're safe to be around. A negative test...."I never had it so I can't spread it, gimme a kiss"...a positive test..."I had it but beat it so I'm now immune and can't spread it, gimme a kiss". Neither is correct.

I had the chicken pox twice. If a chicken pox antibody test existed, I would have tested positive after the first round and assumed I couldn't get it or transmit it afterwards, but that would have been wrong even though the results weren't a false positive. Instead, because people suck, my parents and teachers just assumed I was "safe" and sent me to school sick and may have caused an outbreak.

Both of her claims here rely on most people completely misunderstanding what the results really mean, and people completely ignoring the possibility of false results. Sadly that's proper to assume.

Interesting how she puts it, she says Jones wasn't asked to fudge any data, just maybe present it in a way that made Florida's public covid numbers look better in the run up to the election....or another way to say that is she was asked to fudge the data....if I recall she claimed she was instructed to hide large numbers of cases in categories not included in the public presentations with the intent to create a false perception of a major downturn in cases under the "open up and unmask" plan.

Wasn't the "private data" she's accused of handing to the press the unadulterated anonymous covid numbers....not really private as it's public data collected by the government for public health reasons... and not personal data as she implied. That's what I recall the charge being....maybe there's more.

The rest is unverifiable and /or personal tabloid stuff....like did they point the gun at her kids or just menace them with the guns, did she get pregnant with her student, etc. Not germane to her claims about Florida's verified misrepresentations, and inappropriate attacks against the messenger instead of the message, imo. Distasteful to me, but besides the point.

Fox & GOP Freak Out About Door to Door Vaccination Campaign

luxintenebris jokingly says...

Irony abounds...

- The 'Freedom' or 'Government-shoving-it-down-our-throats' argument is killing them and their kin. The Brian Kilmeade[s] of the world are forcing their beliefs on others. Walking around with COVID is LITERALLY forcing your belief on others! What 'freedom' exists when your fellow Americas insist on being the 21st Typhoid Marys...or COVID Karens?

- The same stand-for-the-flag crowd are the ones carrying Confederate flags, and using American flag poles to kill Capitol police.

- They say they'd take a bullet for their country - but not a shot?

In any other situation, if the virus killed ONLY the unvaccinated, left others alone, then maybe it'd be a civil rights issue. It's not. (would test their resolve, and ours as how many morons would have to die before we'd drag them into the streets and give them the shots they needed)*

But Bob's mind is likely to change as Republican governors are now taking this seriously (not a political strategy). Think in MS and LA the red are moving to get their mutts fixed. Maybe, it'll get to the point you'd have to show a vaccine passport to use a public port-a-potty. Or the "Shot for the S**t of it" campaign. 'Tho BK's "Put a stand up at liquor store / grocery stores" is an insight to a Turd Reich supporter's mindset. Maybe throw beer bashing, get them drunk enough they'll accept the 'free tattoo' in the back room. Vaccinate the entire pound.

How did this happen? When following doddering old fools become the rage against the machine? Or a death cult become the flag-bearers of the 'Pary of Lincoln'? Less a party; more a wake. When did being paranoid become the drug of the masses? Was a time one would have to take a drug, listen to 'Paranoid' before ya' lost your f'n' mind! Now it's coffee and Tucker Carlson then they're seeing CIA agents in the shadows.

Shout out to the old days https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0qanF-91aJo


*yeah. I know. How would y'all work 'drag them into the street and shoot them' into the flow?

Fox & GOP Freak Out About Door to Door Vaccination Campaign

newtboy says...

And today it came out that Fox, where every talking head denounces science and vaccination and calls the vaccine passport nazi Germany where they demand your papers, that Fox, requires all those same talking heads to either show their vaccine passport or get tested daily, mask up, and social distance, you kno, those other instructions they claim are straight out of Nazi Germany.
Yes, the nazis are complaining that other people might get the same low level of safety that they enjoy.
BTW, all those talking heads are vaccinated, Carlson actually weaseled his way into early vaccination before it was available to the public, and now tells others to not get it (but never admits he got it first with no complications).
Guaranteed OAN and Newsmax are doing the same thing.
They’re all lying to you, Bob. They don’t care about you one bit, they care about your vote and money, not you.

bobknight33 said:

600000 dead is only a 2% Death rate.
Another way of saying it 98% survival rate.

And if you are younger than 60 it more like 99% survival rate.

So should you be forced or else be punished in some for or fashion for a 2% death rate?



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