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Burden of Proof | Chilling One-Take about an Abusive Ex

cloudballoon says...

Maybe the overlooking (1st person) camera is in the girl's flat (or a collaborator's balcony), the 1st person camera is controlled by her roommate/collaborator. So the whole setup is to have the victim wait for the ex-BF to the pass by the bridge (a routine thing for him?), then catch her ex's audio & visual confession using a remote mic setup. So whether the ex-BF tossed the on-person mic to the river isn't important, since the camera just recorded a fresh physical assault, and a semi-confession of the past sexual assault as well?

I wonder if this is IRL, would the video be sufficient evidence to nail to ex-BF though? What consititue an admission of guilt nowadays? The suspicions of being recorded and his subsequent physical assault (arguably a minor one? But at minimum an invaison of personal space by force?)... a hint of gaslighting is in there too. All of these evidence, what are they worth legally? Is this at least sufficient to get a perma restraining order on him?

newtboy said:

I assumed the heavy breathing, jacket removal, and camera movement were all the woman returning to her apartment with a second recording device in her pocket and camera in her window.
I guess, with the constant surveillance from multiple angles that’s the norm in most developed countries anywhere in public, and the overlooking camera angle, I never considered the idea that it wasn’t being recorded from multiple devices, so I might have missed the point.
I was only surprised she didn’t retrieve the thing he threw in the creek. The device may be destroyed, but the recording isn’t…not that there was a clear confession on it.

Artemis launch to the moon

newtboy says...

My uncle worked at NASA…he was in charge of all the Apollo moon rocks, allocating them for study, did the cutting of them with a Diamond saw, and later curated the collection for decades. He also helped train the Apollo astronauts on geology so they could collect interesting and new samples and not more of what we already had.
He was also my dad’s roommate at Stanford.
I wonder if he had anything to do with the encased rock….the photo is too low grade to see exactly what you’re talking about.

BSR said:

While waiting for the launch of Artemis they switched to a segment where they showed a moon rock encased in (glass?) It also appears as something else is also encased with it.

https://ibb.co/8sdW4vd

BSR (Member Profile)

bobknight33 (Member Profile)

newtboy says...

Oh shit!!!
The Jan 6 committee just voted unanimously to subpoena Trump and all his documents.
Not a good time to be a Trump cultist.

When he defies that subpoena, maybe he can be roommates with Bannon.

BSR (Member Profile)

Pike County Sheriffs Beat And Mace Man In Restraint Chair

surfingyt says...

..and with a girlfriend... or child... or elder... or roommates... or friends... or pet...

maybe regular welfare checks are needed for all, regardless of who they live with.

newtboy said:

I think every married cop should have a mandatory random monthly welfare check for their spouse.

Wendy Carlos demonstrates her Moog Synthesizer in 1970

KrazyKat42 says...

Wendy was Walter back then. My college roommate had some early albums and hoped the she got really famous in hopes of selling them for big bucks.

And he loved Moogs.

The 10 Most Uplifting Movies of All Time

fuzzyundies says...

I heartily second Amelie. My roommate at the time convinced me to go see it with him when it first came out.

I then went back and dragged along anyone else I could... 8 times.

Mordhaus (Member Profile)

Rape charge dropped against USC student after video surfaces

bareboards2 says...

All good points.

And.

What happens in a court of law is subject to the law. Which is not the same as justice.

I stand by my original question -- what did the university know that we don't know?

There are a lot of suppositions in your well reasoned response to my comment.

I have no suppositions. I have questions.

What did the university know that we don't?

Maybe it is nothing, as you suppose here. And maybe those roommates saw or heard something that scared the bejeebers out of them.

Here is a supposition that you did not put forth -- did the roommates only report the encounter as rape because this guy has dark skin? There could be a racist component to this.

Supposition. What are the facts? What information did the university use to justify expelling this dude?

I don't know.

Mordhaus said:

Of course rape can occur at any point leading up to and even during the act. If you have penetrated your partner and they say stop, you stop.

However, I would ask what other evidence could there possibly be? Obviously we can't know, but one would assume that a motivated prosecutor would have gathered all possible evidence. We know from the victim's statements that she can't recall much of the night, is unsure she said yay or nay during the sex, but that she didn't think he should have been prosecuted. Her roommates are the ones that reported the 'rape', but they clearly didn't give any evidence the court saw as worth convicting on. If their statements were what USC went by to expel him, that would be available via the court and I'm sure someone would have posted them.

We simply do not know and can only go by the video and the statement of the 'victim'. She seemed to be walking fine and signed her name correctly, so either she is an extremely functional drunk or she was sober enough to make those choices. She said she didn't think he should have been charged with rape. To me, that should exonerate the defendant. It did in a court of law, but not in a closed off Title IX hearing.

I suspect that what happened is what happens in other colleges. The college determines what is going to look worse publicity wise and litigation wise, then expels based on that. The problem is that in the Title IX process, there is no real fairness. You can have an advisor present, but not a lawyer if the school objects. One person decides your fate. There is no appeal process. The burden of proof is not defined as to who it is upon. I am sure that the lady in charge went by some procedure and not merely off personal opinion/belief, but we can't investigate to find that out.

To sum up, are we at the point where we should not have intimate relations if either person has imbibed any type of substance? Should we request that a video camera or audio recorder be present at any sexual liaison? Do we need witnesses like they used to have at the consummation of royal weddings? Perhaps a written contract? It just seems pretty ludicrous to me to have a video and the statement of the person that was supposed to have been raped, yet somehow we still had a punishment given to the individual accused of the raping.

Rape charge dropped against USC student after video surfaces

Mordhaus says...

Of course rape can occur at any point leading up to and even during the act. If you have penetrated your partner and they say stop, you stop.

However, I would ask what other evidence could there possibly be? Obviously we can't know, but one would assume that a motivated prosecutor would have gathered all possible evidence. We know from the victim's statements that she can't recall much of the night, is unsure she said yay or nay during the sex, but that she didn't think he should have been prosecuted. Her roommates are the ones that reported the 'rape', but they clearly didn't give any evidence the court saw as worth convicting on. If their statements were what USC went by to expel him, that would be available via the court and I'm sure someone would have posted them.

We simply do not know and can only go by the video and the statement of the 'victim'. She seemed to be walking fine and signed her name correctly, so either she is an extremely functional drunk or she was sober enough to make those choices. She said she didn't think he should have been charged with rape. To me, that should exonerate the defendant. It did in a court of law, but not in a closed off Title IX hearing.

I suspect that what happened is what happens in other colleges. The college determines what is going to look worse publicity wise and litigation wise, then expels based on that. The problem is that in the Title IX process, there is no real fairness. You can have an advisor present, but not a lawyer if the school objects. One person decides your fate. There is no appeal process. The burden of proof is not defined as to who it is upon. I am sure that the lady in charge went by some procedure and not merely off personal opinion/belief, but we can't investigate to find that out.

To sum up, are we at the point where we should not have intimate relations if either person has imbibed any type of substance? Should we request that a video camera or audio recorder be present at any sexual liaison? Do we need witnesses like they used to have at the consummation of royal weddings? Perhaps a written contract? It just seems pretty ludicrous to me to have a video and the statement of the person that was supposed to have been raped, yet somehow we still had a punishment given to the individual accused of the raping.

bareboards2 said:

Oops. That information is NOT presented anywhere.

What I was thinking, and didn't say, is that legally there is no case.

Consent at the beginning is not consent at the end. A man can rape his wife. That wasn't possible for most of human history -- it is now.

So although there is plenty of evidence that she gave consent at the beginning -- video proof of consent -- that doesn't mean that he didn't do something later that the university looked at and said -- apparently, since they expelled him -- constituted sexual intercourse without consent.

How they arrived at that conclusion, we don't know. It is missing from what is reported here.

It is absolutely not clear to me that he is "clearly innocent".

Because a man can rape his wife. Right? Do you agree, @Mordhaus?

That lovely video showing that consent is like offering tea lays out the logic pretty clearly. Saying yes to tea at one point is not the same as saying yes to tea when you are passed out.

i am NOT saying that the university did the correct thing. I don't have any knowledge of what they based their decision to expel upon.

And nor does anyone here, as far as I can tell.

Kavanaugh: No More Nineties Reboots, Please | Full Frontal

Mordhaus says...

Ramirez acknowledged that there are significant gaps in her memories of the evening, and that, if she ever presents her story to the F.B.I. or members of the Senate, she will inevitably be pressed on her motivation for coming forward after so many years, and questioned about her memory, given her drinking at the party.

In a statement, two of those male classmates who Ramirez alleged were involved in the incident, the wife of a third male student she said was involved, and three other classmates, Dino Ewing, Louisa Garry, and Dan Murphy, disputed Ramirez’s account of events: “We were the people closest to Brett Kavanaugh during his first year at Yale. He was a roommate to some of us, and we spent a great deal of time with him, including in the dorm where this incident allegedly took place. Some of us were also friends with Debbie Ramirez during and after her time at Yale. We can say with confidence that if the incident Debbie alleges ever occurred, we would have seen or heard about it—and we did not. The behavior she describes would be completely out of character for Brett. In addition, some of us knew Debbie long after Yale, and she never described this incident until Brett’s Supreme Court nomination was pending. Editors from the New Yorker contacted some of us because we are the people who would know the truth, and we told them that we never saw or heard about this.”

She says it took her six days of hard thinking and speaking to her attorney before she decided she believed that she was positive it was Kavanaugh. Again, no other witnesses are backing her up and the couple that did say they heard of some sort of incident involving a plastic penis and a party think they heard Kavanaugh's name mentioned but they weren't present at the party.

I have to say, there was far more credible information against Clarence Thomas and a panel led by Democrats voted to pass him on to the senate. It is worth investigation? Maybe, but how do you prove it? Both accusers admit they were heavily intoxicated at the time and both have no credible witnesses. If you do have an investigation and he is found innocent, would a Democratic senate even still consider him for SCOTUS? I'm pretty sure the answer is no. Sadly, it looks like he may be fucked even if he isn't guilty.

ChaosEngine said:

@Mordhaus, btw, it looks like another woman has come forward.

Again, this isn't proof, but it certainly strengthens the case for investigation.

The Hamilton Mixtape: Immigrants (We Get The Job Done)

eric3579 says...

You know, and it gets into this whole issue of border security
You know, who's gonna say that the borders are secure?
We've got the House and the Senate debating this issue
And it's, it's really astonishing that in a country founded by immigrants
"Immigrant" has somehow become a bad word
So the debate rages on and we continue
And just like that it's over, we tend to our wounded, we count our dead
Black and white soldiers wonder alike if this really means freedom
Not yet
I got one job, two job, three when I need them
I got five roommates in this one studio, but I never really see them
And we all came America trying to get a lap dance from Lady Freedom
But now Lady Liberty is acting like Hilary Banks with a pre-nup
Man, I was brave, sailing on graves
Don't think I didn't notice those tombstones disguised as waves
I'm no dummy, here is something funny, you can be an immigrant without risking your lives
Or crossing these borders with thrifty supplies
All you got to do is see the world with new eyes
Immigrants, we get the job done
Look how far I come
Look how far I come
Look how far I come
We get the job done
Look how far I come
Look how far I come
Look how far I come
Immigrants, we get the job done
It's a hard line when you're an import
Baby boy, it's hard times
When you ain't sent for
Racists feed the belly of the beast
With they pitchforks, rich chores
Done by the people that get ignored
Ya se armó
Ya se despertaron
It's a whole awakening
La alarma ya sonó hace rato
Los que quieren buscan
Pero nos apodan como vagos
We are the same ones
Hustling on every level
Ten los datos
Walk a mile in our shoes
Abróchense los zapatos
I been scoping ya dudes, ya'll ain't been working like I do
I'll outwork you, it hurts you
You claim I'm stealing jobs though
Peter Piper claimed he picked them, he just underpaid Pablo
But there ain't a paper trail when you living in the shadows
We're America's ghost writers, the credit's only borrowed
It's a matter of time before the checks all come
But
Immigrants, we get the job done
Look how far I come
Look how far I come
Look how far I come
We get the job done
Look how far I come
Look how far I come
Look how far I come
Immigrants, we get the job
Not yet
The credit is only borrowed
It's America's ghost writers, the credit's only borrowed
It's America's ghost writers
America's ghost writers
America's ghost writers, the credit's only borrow-borrowed
It's America's ghost writers, a credit is only borrowed
It's America's ghost writers, a credit is only borrowed
It's America's ghost writers, a credit is only borrowed
It's
Immigrants, we get the job done
Ay yo aye, immigrants we don't like that
Na they don't play British empire strikes back
They beating us like 808's and high hats
At our own game of invasion, but this ain't Iraq
Who these fugees what did they do for me
But contribute new dreams
Taxes and tools, swagger and food to eat
Cool, they flee war zones, but the problem ain't ours
Even if our bombs landed on them like the Mayflower
Buckingham Palace or Capitol Hill
Blood of my ancestors had that all built
It's the ink you print on your dollar bill, oil you spill
Thin red lines on the flag you hoist when you kill
But still we just say "look how far I come"
Hindustan, Pakistan, to London
To a galaxy far from their ignorance
'Cause
Immigrants, we get the job done
Por tierra o por agua
Identidad falsa
Brincamos muros o flotamos en balsas
La peleamos como Sandino en Nicaragua
Somos como las plantas que crecen sin agua
Sin pasaporte americano
Porque la mitad de gringolandia es terreno mexicano
Hay que ser bien hijo de puta
Nosotros les sembramos el árbol y ellos se comen la frutas
Somos los que cruzaron
Aquí vinimos a buscar el oro que nos robaron
Tenemos mas trucos que la policía secreta
Metimos la casa completa en una maleta
Con un pico, una pala
Y un rastrillo
Te construimos un castillo
Como es que dice el coro cabrón?
Immigrants, we get the job done
Look how far I come
Look how far I come
Look how far I come
We get the job done
Look how far I come
Look how far I come
Look how far I come
Immigrants, we get the job done
Look how far I come
Look how far I come
Look how far I come
Immigrants, we get the job done
Not yet

BSR (Member Profile)

eric3579 (Member Profile)



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