I think you all possibly missed the subtlety in the cartoon.
The place is run-down...tattered drapes, lampshade, etc. Note the broken window...the meat is sitting on the table near that window. What is missing from the house to make it completely ramshackle??? FLIES. The meat is there to attract flies through the broken window in order to complete the ambience of the seedy decor...

Arsenault.........

Wow man. Just wow.

First off, it's not just america. For christ's sake let's get that straight, the world exists beyond america. I don't even know where to start, and i KNOW you won't see that any of what you said is wrong or unbiased, so i almost think there's no point. But for the sake of every other sifter who reads your comment and goes "is that true?!" i'm going to point out a few things. I'm not even an expert, it's just basic logic and knowledge.

"Leaving it better than you found it? We built bridges, roads, hospitals, schools."
-- Dude, THE COUNTRY IS A WARZONE. By our standards, parts of it are uninhabitable, parts of it are dangerously habitable and the parts that are comfortably habitable still have huge risks hanging over them every day from various factions of their own countrymen (Quote needed; "I'll believe Iraq is safe when i see politicians/celebrities holidaying there"????). Let's not get further and further into history, ok? Yes the country was in a shit state beforehand, and yes in one way or another the civilised west has been funding/aiding the ruination of the middle east for years before our own life times.

Let's stick to now;
Allies go in -> Hussein removed -> people safer
Allies go in -> What ramshackle law and order there was is removed -> people less safe
(law and order being more than just "policing", which we are currently doing to whatever degree of success)

These happened alongside each other. The net result, imo, is that the country is, safety wise, in the same shit it was in the first place. Let's not argue "exactly how safe" it is/was. I think (depending on your source) that life expectancy has been dropping in Iraq since the 90s, and was still dropping after the war (this war) "finished".

The allies have not left that country in any kind of state. We went in to liberate the country from an evil regime, you absolutely cannot go into a country to liberate them and leave them in the kind of state that iraq is in. Whether you wanted to go to war or not, you have to accept that the state the country is in now is our doing, and it is our responsibility to correct it.

You can either leave them with the evil regime to die and suffer, or you can go in and help. You can't go in and help and then leave them to die and suffer. The moment you invade, the dying and suffering is your responsibility until such a time as they can take the responsibility back off you. You're on that ride to the very end, my friend.

"And don't start talking about collateral damage and what not. You don't think that the US Gov't doesn't pay them back for that shit?"
-- If i give you $200 000, can i kill your family? Then put your property and whatever loved ones you have left in constant danger, and when your crisis is greatest and your heart is broken, up and leave you to fend for yourself in a society with NO law and order, as opposed to "bad law and order", in a world where the $200 000 can't buy your safety?

That comment screams "asshole" to me, dude. Think about what you're saying.

I know you're not a stupid guy, i've read some of your quality comments. Are you sure you're going the right way with this?

Comment hidden because you are ignoring dag. (show it anyway)

What a great idea for a thread.

My avatar choice is sort of personal. It's a picture taken 15 seconds after this one: http://farm1.static.flickr.com/16/19603535_d7664bfa6a_b.jpg

I was one week into a 6 month holiday, sitting outside a ramshackle motel in Bisbee, Arizona - drinking a corona and plucking around on my guitar. It's my happy place.

"I hate Macs. I have always hated Macs. I hate people who use Macs. I even hate people who don't use Macs but sometimes wish they did. Macs are glorified Fisher-Price activity centres for adults; computers for scaredy cats too nervous to learn how proper computers work; computers for people who earnestly believe in feng shui.

PCs are the ramshackle computers of the people. You can build your own from scratch, then customise it into oblivion. Sometimes you have to slap it to make it work properly, just like the Tardis (Doctor Who, incidentally, would definitely use a PC). PCs have charm; Macs ooze pretension." --Charlie Brooker

Quoted from I Hate Macs
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/story/0,,2006031,00.html