Winstone, uhmm, efficiency in heating water is no more or less efficient then current natural gas and nuclear tech which does the same thing to provide electricity. Also if you bothered to click play, you would have seen they has solved the day night cycle problem by storing the heat, although in the future im sure it will be easier to store the electricity instead.

Of course that fact that there are no fuel cost or waste by products mean that solar towers and the like will have no harmful impacts on the future like every other method of providing electricity out there.

>> ^dystopianfuturetoday:

^I don't see we why shouldn't have both proper regulation and a more level judicial playing field.


^To a certain extent, I think flimsy regulations can lull public concern and investment for the issue. I know I don't routinely examine my MUD provided water, I just assume all is ok. When I had my own well, I had to keep tabs on it to make sure we didn't get radon bleeding in...which happens all the time in the mountains. When you regulate from the business side, the bucks are invested in a side of protection you don't examine, and can't examine. Consumers aren't expected to protect themselves, and therefore the tools for doing so are more costly and more cumbersome. It is just clunky. It would be like if cars didn't have speedometers and instead needed pace cars to set their speed relation too, it's just unnecessary. It would be better to equip people with the tools to protect themselves.

With that said, FRAKING seems like a really bad idea. Back in the day, we had tons of problems with natural gas migrations into our water wells. We had to dig a 800foot well just to find good water, which isn't cheap. You don't need to help that situation any, for sure. Though, it would seem to be a hard thing to prove that a specific action caused a gas contamination vs natural occurring one. I wonder if they are tracing the fluid contamination over the methane?

Edit: And I should note, now that we have a water softener, I pay more attention to my water content now that I have the tools too

Serious voice is serious.

But really - these companies need to pay for any damage they cause. This is simple liability.

That said, natural gas really does make a lot of sense from an energy perspective, and fracking is how you get a lot of natural gas. If they can afford to pay people $100k for their gas rights, they can pay to fix a busted well.


Also, protip: Home Depot will test your well water for you, for free. Obviously, don't trust testing done by someone with an agenda.

Looks like "Energy in Depth" is another bullshit oil industry front group.

http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Energy_in_Depth

Energy in Depth (EID) is a pro-oil-and-gas drilling industry front group formed by the American Petroleum Institute, the Petroleum Association of America and dozens of additional industry organizations for the purpose of denouncing legislation proposed by Colorado U.S. Rep. Diana DeGette to regulate underground hydraulic fracturing fluids. Hydraulic fracturing of underground geological formations, commonly called "fracking," was invented by the Halliburton Company. It is done to increase the amounts of oil and gas that can be extracted from existing wells. [1]

Energy in Depth denounces DeGette's proposed fracking legislation as an “unnecessary financial burden on a single small-business industry, American oil and natural gas producers.” In June, 2009, Energy in Depth started a multimillion dollar lobbying and public relations campaign aimed at derailing public health legislation that would require the disclosure of the chemicals used in fracking fluids. In addition to a Web site, EID's campaign includes a Twitter feed, a Facebook group, a YouTube channel and an aggressive advertising campaign. [1]

Energy in Depth trumpets the economic contribution oil and gas drilling makes, and the numbers of people employed by the industry.

>> ^wagthedog1:

>> ^nanrod:
I know this is all bullshit because T. Boone Pickens was on the Daily Show and he assured me that no water well has ever been contaminated by fracking. He wouldn't lie would he?

And neither would Lee Fuller, executive director of Energy in Depth, who has told the Academy of Motion Picture Arts and Sciences that a litany of errors in the anti-drilling film should render it ineligible for the Oscar for best documentary feature.
http://www.nytimes.com/gwire/2011
/02/01/01greenwire-ioil-and-gas-group-urges-oscar-judges-to-steer-99256.html
Besides, it is good that North Americans are once again getting a small taste of what many petro-states have have to endure over the decades to fuel a lifestyle of excess.

>> ^dystopianfuturetoday:

So blankie, a hypothetical.
In an alternate volunteerist universe, you own a farm in Nebraska. Because of some nearby drilling for natural gas, your well water becomes completely contaminated and unusable. You raise your concerns with the owner of the drilling company, P. Toone Bickins, but he tells you 'tough, I'm drilling on my own land and minding my own business'.
Upon going to town you discover that P. Toone Bickins has also bought up the water supply for a 200 mile radius and all of the land surrounding the town, including all of the roads. The voluntary fee for water is $4.39 a gallon. The voluntary toll for the roads is $40 for residents, $300 for non-residents. All competing water suppliers stop servicing the town because the tolls are too expensive. P. Toone tells you that if you are unhappy, that he will generously buy your property from you at half the price you paid for it.
Some of your neighbors have sold their farms to Bickins. Some are staying put and talking about armed rebellion, but there are concerns about Bickins' large, highly trained, highly armed security squad. You contact your local minarchist magistrate, Pon Raul, to see if any legal action can be taken, but he lectures you for an hour about the evils of regulation, and how wrong it would be to coerce P. Toone Bickins into doing something he against his will.
You need water for your family, crops and farm animals, but with these new expenses, you are not sure you will have enough income to pay the bills.
What do you do?


That scenario is needlessly specific and extreme. Every argument a statist makes against a voluntary society seems to be some extreme work of fiction involving a rogue and crazy Bill Gates doing terrible things to a defenseless group of people.

The answer to your question, I don't know what I'd do. Who could plan for that? You want a system that guarantees something that's unlikely, and that's looking at it the wrong way. There's also no known protections against an alien invasion.

revolutions will continue to be televised. the arab world will see democracy. and theyll be disappointed.

israel and iran will start shit with eachother. the us will get involved. weapons factories will be the only things still in operation.

cable news will reach hysterical new heights, and only the south will continue listening

states will begin pulling out of medicaid programs in droves. social services will be cut across the board. crime and abuse and alcoholism rates will sky rocket. the elderly and disabled will be ushered back into institutions, slowly. conditions will deteriote. i will be out of a job. my heart will break.

my kids will grow into teenagers. ill talk to them about safe sex. their generation won't know anything about the civil rights movement. their idea of the civil war and holocaust will be politicized. all their friends will think that cavemen hunted dinosaurs.

gaping disparities in education will persist. the scourge that is the texas standard of education will sweep across most of the country. poor and inner schools will deteriorate further. children will go home hungry.

commercials will get louder.

white people will become a minority in border states, our politicians will be slightly less ridiculous. a chain of accessible taquerias will open across the south west. people will change their idea of "tacos" and ground meat will become a thing of the past. hopefully ill finally learn spanish.


all the cities sitting on top of massive natural gas reserves will begin to sink into their ground as all their children are diagnosed with cancer in droves. class action law suit commercials from cheap legal firms will flood the day time air waves.

there will be more shows about old people having sex. there will be reality shows about aging baby boomers.

everyone will develop histrionic personality disorders.

theyll teach mandarin in public schools.

some states will legalize marijuana.

gay people will get equal rights. mormons will realize it doesn't effect their relationship with their "god" at all.

someone will get assassinated.

assuming, the world doesn't end in 2012.

So blankie, a hypothetical.

In an alternate volunteerist universe, you own a farm in Nebraska. Because of some nearby drilling for natural gas, your well water becomes completely contaminated and unusable. You raise your concerns with the owner of the drilling company, P. Toone Bickins, but he tells you 'tough, I'm drilling on my own land and minding my own business'.

Upon going to town you discover that P. Toone Bickins has also bought up the water supply for a 200 mile radius and all of the land surrounding the town, including all of the roads. The voluntary fee for water is $4.39 a gallon. The voluntary toll for the roads is $40 for residents, $300 for non-residents. All competing water suppliers stop servicing the town because the tolls are too expensive. P. Toone tells you that if you are unhappy, that he will generously buy your property from you at half the price you paid for it.

Some of your neighbors have sold their farms to Bickins. Some are staying put and talking about armed rebellion, but there are concerns about Bickins' large, highly trained, highly armed security squad. You contact your local minarchist magistrate, Pon Raul, to see if any legal action can be taken, but he lectures you for an hour about the evils of regulation, and how wrong it would be to coerce P. Toone Bickins into doing something he against his will.

You need water for your family, crops and farm animals, but with these new expenses, you are not sure you will have enough income to pay the bills.

What do you do?

>> ^GenjiKilpatrick:

Wait, aren't there like 37 other ways to produce natural gas without fracking?
i.e. cow farts


Frraaackin' sonofabitch

/col_tigh

Wait, aren't there like 37 other ways to produce natural gas without fracking?

i.e. cow farts

i'm amongst that stastitic. i don't vote because its fucking bullshit. not because im not smart enough to grasp the issues, but because the options do not, will not and never have represented me. i can not lend my support to someone who is owned by a moneyed interest. i'm in texas too, it's fairly obvious that all our politicians are owned by oil companies, natural gas companies, home builders, halliburton, lockheed martin and wal mart. it's insulting and it is a waste of time. all the options are false.

oh, i take that back. i do vote in local elections like school board and city council and railroad commissioner and judges, etc. but only when i have reason to believe that at least one of the candidates isnt working for a church or a company. and i do a pretty thorough evaluation.

poor does not equal stupid. i would say poor simply equal unrepresented. but none of you are being represented, unless one of you happens to own lockheed martin, then you probably are very well represented.

anyway, voting is such bullshit.

i do however, enjoy vandalizing campaign signs. like, a lot. i go around and rip them out of the ground during the day, like im the person in charge of them and im supposed to be doing it. then i take them home, deface them with clever graffitti. then drive back around and put them back in the ground. like im supposed to be doing it. sometimes i just strategically relocate them, like in front of strip clubs or "gentlemen's spas". i highly recommend you all adopt this tactic in your own towns.
>> ^GeeSussFreeK:

Nearly 64% of the lowest 20% income bracket do not vote. Tell me DT, why do you hate poor people?

Also, it is within rights of a municipality to ban drilling - for example recently Pittsburgh voted to ban drilling rights within city limits. Also, at least in Allegheny county PA, homeowners don't retain the mineral rights (including drilling), so other townships can vote similar. There is a distinction between homesteads and farmsteads though, but I don't own a farm so I'm not familiar.

Personally I'm not against natural gas drilling, but I'm against the contractors who are doing it, and the corners they are cutting to save a buck. And even if you installed a Dean-Kamen-style water purifier in every home, the contaminants and heavy metals in the run-off will go to all the streams, rivers, lakes, tributaries and have a definite negative impact on the environment.

>> ^cybrbeast:

>> ^peggedbea:
I also live on top of natural gas shale. It's happening in my town too.
http://texasvox.org/2010/12/08/flammable-water-in-homes-west-of-for
t-worth/

Maybe your utilities should take measures? I'm sure it's not too difficult to degas the water before piping it into the municipal water grid.


Rural pennsylvania does not have a municipal water grid. Each home, farm, or development has it's own wells which pump water up from deep underground. So the only way that gas companies could do it is to install a water filtration system in every home.

I agree that this type of rural water wells have always had methane problems, but the guy who lights his water on fire and has the lawsuit - I'm sure he didn't have nearly as many problems before granting the gas drilling rights.

>> ^peggedbea:

I also live on top of natural gas shale. It's happening in my town too.
http://texasvox.org/2010/12/08/flammable-water-in-homes-west-of-for
t-worth/


Maybe your utilities should take measures? I'm sure it's not too difficult to degas the water before piping it into the municipal water grid.

Described in last years' documentary film 'Gasland':
http://videosift.com/video/Gasland-An-Expos-of-US-Natural-Gas-Drilling-Practices

I also live on top of natural gas shale. It's happening in my town too.

http://texasvox.org/2010/12/08/flammable-water-in-homes-west-of-fort-worth/