In this commercial, the iRenew has liquid methamphetamines brushed onto the inside edge to give the first time wearers a euphoric jolt.

>> ^tsquire1:

What a fucking tool. Marijuana addiction? addiction?
Y'all know that SB1070 was written by Corrections Corporation of America, right? Y'all know why? Because undocumented people are seen as a source of profit ($200 per bed, per night). Same thing goes for the 'war on drugs'. Its a way for the capitalist scum to profit off our misery.
Fuck 'em


So the brain can't become addicted to the chemical reactions it receives from THC? Is that what you're saying? Why is it so far-fetched to you that marijuana is very much an addictive substance? It may not be as addictive as some other things such as methamphetamines but it most certainly is addictive. ANYTHING can be addictive if the brain sees a reward from it. Gaming, extreme sports, drugs, alcohol, even reading can be addictive. Weed IS addictive and denying that fact is only keeping yourself in the dark.

Of COURSE people make money off of it. What don't people try to capitalize on? That doesn't make it any less true that it's an affliction for many people.

I'm going to start a new meme:

When LSD takes a dose of water, it trips out and hallucinates Charlie Sheen.

Methamphetamines and cocaine may be severe uppers, but they'd still never do a rail of Charlie Sheen.

Don't do Charlie. -Drugs

>> ^quantumushroom:

Preaching to choir: End Drug Prohibition.


I thought they were only using the prohibition analogy on pot. They're using it on methamphetamine now?

>> ^Gamble:

No one has ever died from pot? Sorry, stopped watching right there.


Hi Gamble, you seem genuine. Let me add what I can.

I'm going to call bullshit on that French study.

It says, "French researchers studied all drivers involved in fatal car crashes over a two-year period and found 7% tested positive for marijuana, including nearly 3% who tested positive for a combination of marijuana and alcohol."

This study is from before 2005, I don't believe roadside marijuana tests existed back then, as they aren't used much even now. That means they did tests that determined the person smoked weed in the past few weeks. And so 7% of those people tested positive for having smoked marijuana in the past few weeks? Whopp-dee-doo. From The National Survey on Drug Use and Health:

Among adults aged 26 or older, 6.3 percent were current illicit drug users in 2009. In this age group, 4.6 percent used marijuana, and 2.1 percent used prescription-type drugs nonmedically. Less than 1 percent used cocaine (0.6 percent), hallucinogens (0.2 percent), heroin (0.1 percent), and inhalants (0.1 percent). The only statistically significant changes between 2008 and 2009 in the rates of past month use among adults in this age group involved nonmedical use of stimulants (which increased from 0.2 to 0.4 percent) and methamphetamine use (which rose from 0.1 to 0.2 percent). In addition to these increases between 2008 and 2009, the rate of current marijuana use among adults aged 26 or older was higher in 2009 (4.6 percent) than in 2002 (4.0 percent).
( http://www.oas.samhsa.gov/NSDUH/2k9NSDUH/2k9Results.htm#2.4 )

So obviously among those 4.6% marijuana users aged 26+ there are a lot of drivers who would test positive for drug use in the past few weeks.

It also says, "The study also showed that drivers who tested positive for marijuana were more than three times as likely to be responsible for the fatal car crash. Researchers say the likelihood of being at fault increased as the blood concentration of marijuana increased."

So they took blood tests? That doesn't determine if you're stoned. Marijuana stays in your blood for a long time. If you smoked yesterday at 2 P.M. you would still definitely have marijuana in your system. But you definitely wouldn't be stoned at all.

Lastly my own personal experience: I drive stoned all the time. But before you harangue me for being a danger to society let me tell you that I know when I am in control and when I'm not. I am a responsible driver and there have been very few occasions when I've smoked a joint and needed to rest before driving. It's happened a couple of times where I've been somewhere, smoked a big joint and then needed to leave. I get to my car and shit is still spinning and overwhelming a bit. It's these times when I take 10-15 minutes to let the initial effects wear off and adjust to and get serious about my surroundings.

Alcohol is far far worse, for me anyways... I've driven tipsy once or twice, and it's just not to be done. It's different, everything's just a big fucking joke when you're drunk. I had to keep reminding myself to be careful and not just let go and enjoy the ride lol. When stoned, I'm vigilant.

Lastly, I would like to mention that I feel weed affects me quite strongly. I've smoked a ton of weed in my day, and compared to me friends, I still get pretty darn high. Especially if I've gone even a week without smoking.

Anyways, tl;dr Marijuana is a relatively safe drug and the prohibition against it is highly suspicious.

Yep. Hear you 100%. Not only does it take guts to turn someone in, but I would even say that someone has to have cahones to admit to THEMSELVES that someone has wronged them. A great deal of my own therapy has involved attempting to actually believe (truly believe, in my core) that a certain person wronged me (consistently) when I was a child. Hence the (initial) privacy of any context of abuse, which I think is really lost in cases like this one.

But anyway, I do not think I am trying to say that "she only made the tape to expose him publicly for a hollywood public spectacle factor and that stems from, or is evidence of some kind of fame whoreness." Just the last part... I would take issue with that. I don't think she is a whore... or is even acting like a whore. What I am trying to say is that, by deferring to the whorish media as an intermediary, that she might not only be taking the gravity out of Gibson's actions, but is using similar mechanisms of public humiliation and shame to which bullies like Gibson might themselves be quick to defer. YES, such violence needs to be brought into the open, and YES Gibson should be shown as the monster he is, but (again) to expose him in such a way would seem to risk exposing Gibson the character rather than Gibson the genuinely troubled and potentially dangerous man.

>> ^peggedbea:

so, it seems you think she only made the tape to expose him publicly for a hollywood public spectacle factor and that stems from, or is evidence of some kind of fame whoreness? i can see the logic there, and perhaps it is the case.
however, as i said before, the relationship messes with your head. a lot. i never once turned my husband into the cops. not when he hit me. not when he held a knife to my throat. not when i knew he was driving around drunk with a bag of methamphetamine and i knew all i really needed to do was call the cops and he'd get locked up for a while and i could leave peacefully. not when he stole my credit cards and ran up 8k worth of debt. not when he was in a dysphoric manic fit and screaming similar things with a gun to his head. never. i think i thought it would have been some sort of betrayal to the man i married, who i was under the impression was a sweet, shy, sensitive, creative boy who loved me and my daughter but struggled with demons from a life filled with abuse and addiction (which i was hard wired from early childhood to understand and empathize with, because i was raised by the mentally ill and by drug addicts, its just how the world looked from perspective). and maybe i knew how impotent law enforcement was to help, he did after all, belong in a hospital as opposed to a jail cell. because i was close to him and i knew all this torment was mental illness, demons from his past, and the drugs he uses to self medicate because he lives every single day in unimaginable mental anguish and stress and it all comes from bad chemicals. and he could be good. 60% of the time he was at least passably decent.
i did however, tape a few of his fits. i thought i could let him listen to it later when he was calm and more rational and he would see how badly he needed help. i thought it would convince him to take his meds. i bring this up because i now know several other people who have done the same thing. you dont want them locked up, you dont want to press charges on family, because they need psychiatric help. you just want them to see how crazy they are and put down the dick pipe and take their meds. i think this is probably the more likely scenario especially since there seems to be some doubt as to whether or not she was even the one to release them. i'm not sure anyone is equipped to handle these situations well, particularly not the type of person who would be attracted to them in the first place. that's why it's called a "cycle" of abuse. i learned in a class a few years ago that only 30% of adults who were abused as children abuse their own children. i thought that was sort of hopeful and interesting. i would like to know though what percentage of adults who were abused as children end up in abusive relationships. i would bet its also somewhere around the 30% mark.
>> ^griefer_queafer:
I think you're right to react the way you have. But I honestly think that part of my frustration with this video might have been lost in what I do recognize now as a real insensitivity on my part. It is definitely easy to say that you've missed the point, because you haven't, and you have brought my attention to a whole other level of insult allowed by my comments. Plus, you are right to say that it is easy to blame the victim, because it is SOOO easy, and I have done it.
HOWEVER. While I have def. made some serious assumptions about this 'tape', I think you have also. I also feel that you have tacked on a good deal of information onto the position of both Gibson and Grigorieva. First, you don't seem willing to admit that her taping this conversation indicates a very real violation. I'm sure it sounds really 'academic' of me, but I do believe that her recording and releasing it elevates Mel's chauvinism to the level of spectacle even more so than before. You might argue that it NEEDS TO BE HEARD; that this monstrosity needs to be brought into the light. But at the end of the day, isn't there something a bit less dignified... a bit less spectacularly absurd about a court hearing and a restraining order as opposed to an audiotape? Doesn't something like this run the risk of turning his behavior into a 'product' or 'caricature' than say... a nice day in court? Wouldn't something like this run the risk even more so of having his actions digestible as some kind of ironic or absurdly funny gesture, by some asinine, pigheaded, 'middle-class', 'academic', pseudo-intellectual white boy on the internet?
So, while your outrage is rock-solid, it would seem counter-productive for me to insist I was wrong, because I believe that I am fundamentally right. I HAVE blamed a victim... but for now, its an invisible victim (unfortunately), made all the less clear by her acting that role out through the very avenues of power and control utilized by foul-mouthed, violent, and dangerous people like Gibson himself. So for now, Gibson unfortunately remains fascinating. And that is an unfortunate reality I truly believe you need to come to terms with in this context. Until he pays a very real price for his behavior, he will remain that fascinating image of horrific thoughtlessness, and will CONTINUE to represent everything that is wrong with Hollywood (for as much as it gives us). Sadly, with these kinds of videos, he continues to just play ANOTHER ROLE, thanks to the very people who would listen to his voice with very real horror, and feel justified in their disgust while at the same time refusing to see the only REAL evidence of violence ACTUALLY available to them, which in this case is really only its fucking screenplay.
I stick to my upvote, as well as my comment, all the more because of your upsetting and honest response.

>> ^peggedbea:
have you lost your mind?
a logical extension of your rant could be "i have no sympathy for this bitch who claims she was date raped, it just shows what little respect she has for herself for going somewhere with a date rapist and then being whiney enough to go to the cops about it, fuck her"
like it or not there are thousands of women stuck abusive relationships they cant get out of. i can see where the "its your own damn fault for getting into it in the first place" argument would seep into the mind of some assholes who lack perspective and experience. but speaking as someone who has been there and is speaking to you from the other side of it, there is an overwhelming amount of manipulation that goes on in the beginnings of a relationship with an abuser and in the process a very real shift in logical and your ability to think clearly happens. being a child of abuse makes you very susceptible to these kinds of relationships as your brain was wired very young to feel comfortable and tie feelings of abuse to feelings of love. after a prolonged period of time behaviors that are wildly inappropriate just become normal. on top of that you live your day to day life in survival mode, and being in perpetual survival mode robs you of your ability to THINK. and certainly of the confidence to leave. adding a baby on top of it and your brain becomes completely fried and totally warped.
admitting you let someone take this much power, and degrade you senselessly takes an incredible amount of courage. it takes an insane amount of courage and fortitude and balls to go back into the world and KEEP TRYING. how dare you chide her for this.
this shit needs to be exposed. and the stories need to be told. the more people who hear the stories of these women the less ignorant twat assholes will open their dickless middle class white boy academic internet mouths and blame the victim.
fuck you.
>> ^griefer_queafer:
Also, I have no sympathy for this woman. By releasing this tape, she is not just showing what kind of a person Gibson is--she is also showing that she has very little respect for herself by dating a person who would say these things to her. Also, I am not even sure how much this kind of thing reveals about the guy. Again, sounds like he is on drugs, or is manic, or both. Plus, from the sound of the audio, I wouldn't be surprised if she re-recorded he responses to Mel, which sound really rehearsed anyway. So... Mel is an ass, but fuck her too.

so, it seems you think she only made the tape to expose him publicly for a hollywood public spectacle factor and that stems from, or is evidence of some kind of fame whoreness? i can see the logic there, and perhaps it is the case.

however, as i said before, the relationship messes with your head. a lot. i never once turned my husband into the cops. not when he hit me. not when he held a knife to my throat. not when i knew he was driving around drunk with a bag of methamphetamine and i knew all i really needed to do was call the cops and he'd get locked up for a while and i could leave peacefully. not when he stole my credit cards and ran up 8k worth of debt. not when he was in a dysphoric manic fit and screaming similar things with a gun to his head. never. i think i thought it would have been some sort of betrayal to the man i married, who i was under the impression was a sweet, shy, sensitive, creative boy who loved me and my daughter but struggled with demons from a life filled with abuse and addiction (which i was hard wired from early childhood to understand and empathize with, because i was raised by the mentally ill and by drug addicts, its just how the world looked from perspective). and maybe i knew how impotent law enforcement was to help, he did after all, belong in a hospital as opposed to a jail cell. because i was close to him and i knew all this torment was mental illness, demons from his past, and the drugs he uses to self medicate because he lives every single day in unimaginable mental anguish and stress and it all comes from bad chemicals. and he could be good. 60% of the time he was at least passably decent.

i did however, tape a few of his fits. i thought i could let him listen to it later when he was calm and more rational and he would see how badly he needed help. i thought it would convince him to take his meds. i bring this up because i now know several other people who have done the same thing. you dont want them locked up, you dont want to press charges on family, because they need psychiatric help. you just want them to see how crazy they are and put down the dick pipe and take their meds. i think this is probably the more likely scenario especially since there seems to be some doubt as to whether or not she was even the one to release them. i'm not sure anyone is equipped to handle these situations well, particularly not the type of person who would be attracted to them in the first place. that's why it's called a "cycle" of abuse. i learned in a class a few years ago that only 30% of adults who were abused as children abuse their own children. i thought that was sort of hopeful and interesting. i would like to know though what percentage of adults who were abused as children end up in abusive relationships. i would bet its also somewhere around the 30% mark.
>> ^griefer_queafer:

I think you're right to react the way you have. But I honestly think that part of my frustration with this video might have been lost in what I do recognize now as a real insensitivity on my part. It is definitely easy to say that you've missed the point, because you haven't, and you have brought my attention to a whole other level of insult allowed by my comments. Plus, you are right to say that it is easy to blame the victim, because it is SOOO easy, and I have done it.
HOWEVER. While I have def. made some serious assumptions about this 'tape', I think you have also. I also feel that you have tacked on a good deal of information onto the position of both Gibson and Grigorieva. First, you don't seem willing to admit that her taping this conversation indicates a very real violation. I'm sure it sounds really 'academic' of me, but I do believe that her recording and releasing it elevates Mel's chauvinism to the level of spectacle even more so than before. You might argue that it NEEDS TO BE HEARD; that this monstrosity needs to be brought into the light. But at the end of the day, isn't there something a bit less dignified... a bit less spectacularly absurd about a court hearing and a restraining order as opposed to an audiotape? Doesn't something like this run the risk of turning his behavior into a 'product' or 'caricature' than say... a nice day in court? Wouldn't something like this run the risk even more so of having his actions digestible as some kind of ironic or absurdly funny gesture, by some asinine, pigheaded, 'middle-class', 'academic', pseudo-intellectual white boy on the internet?
So, while your outrage is rock-solid, it would seem counter-productive for me to insist I was wrong, because I believe that I am fundamentally right. I HAVE blamed a victim... but for now, its an invisible victim (unfortunately), made all the less clear by her acting that role out through the very avenues of power and control utilized by foul-mouthed, violent, and dangerous people like Gibson himself. So for now, Gibson unfortunately remains fascinating. And that is an unfortunate reality I truly believe you need to come to terms with in this context. Until he pays a very real price for his behavior, he will remain that fascinating image of horrific thoughtlessness, and will CONTINUE to represent everything that is wrong with Hollywood (for as much as it gives us). Sadly, with these kinds of videos, he continues to just play ANOTHER ROLE, thanks to the very people who would listen to his voice with very real horror, and feel justified in their disgust while at the same time refusing to see the only REAL evidence of violence ACTUALLY available to them, which in this case is really only its fucking screenplay.
I stick to my upvote, as well as my comment, all the more because of your upsetting and honest response.

>> ^peggedbea:
have you lost your mind?
a logical extension of your rant could be "i have no sympathy for this bitch who claims she was date raped, it just shows what little respect she has for herself for going somewhere with a date rapist and then being whiney enough to go to the cops about it, fuck her"
like it or not there are thousands of women stuck abusive relationships they cant get out of. i can see where the "its your own damn fault for getting into it in the first place" argument would seep into the mind of some assholes who lack perspective and experience. but speaking as someone who has been there and is speaking to you from the other side of it, there is an overwhelming amount of manipulation that goes on in the beginnings of a relationship with an abuser and in the process a very real shift in logical and your ability to think clearly happens. being a child of abuse makes you very susceptible to these kinds of relationships as your brain was wired very young to feel comfortable and tie feelings of abuse to feelings of love. after a prolonged period of time behaviors that are wildly inappropriate just become normal. on top of that you live your day to day life in survival mode, and being in perpetual survival mode robs you of your ability to THINK. and certainly of the confidence to leave. adding a baby on top of it and your brain becomes completely fried and totally warped.
admitting you let someone take this much power, and degrade you senselessly takes an incredible amount of courage. it takes an insane amount of courage and fortitude and balls to go back into the world and KEEP TRYING. how dare you chide her for this.
this shit needs to be exposed. and the stories need to be told. the more people who hear the stories of these women the less ignorant twat assholes will open their dickless middle class white boy academic internet mouths and blame the victim.
fuck you.
>> ^griefer_queafer:
Also, I have no sympathy for this woman. By releasing this tape, she is not just showing what kind of a person Gibson is--she is also showing that she has very little respect for herself by dating a person who would say these things to her. Also, I am not even sure how much this kind of thing reveals about the guy. Again, sounds like he is on drugs, or is manic, or both. Plus, from the sound of the audio, I wouldn't be surprised if she re-recorded he responses to Mel, which sound really rehearsed anyway. So... Mel is an ass, but fuck her too.

it seems there is a predisposition for schizophrenia among those cases...

"Schizophrenia can sometimes be triggered by heavy use of hallucinogenic drugs, especially LSD; but it appears that one has to have a genetic predisposition towards developing schizophrenia for this to occur. There is also some evidence suggesting that people suffering from schizophrenia but responding to treatment can have an episode as a result of use of LSD. Methamphetamine and PCP also mimic the symptoms of schizophrenia, and can trigger ongoing symptoms of schizophrenia in those who are vulnerable."


>> ^Raaagh:

is on wiki, kids used to smoke at 4:20 in the 70s...
Also weed is harmless? try telling that to the kids for whom it triggered a debilitating-life ruining schizophrenic episode.
Even so, legalizing would do a fuck load more good, than bad.

This is pretty much as simply as I could put everything, it's a long relatively disorganized post so be prepared:

>> ^blutruth:

Also, I'm not a doctor, just some guy with access to a search engine, so don't take my word for it.


Thanks blutruth for looking into these kinds of claims instead of just watching videos as fact like most people do. I, on the other hand, AM in the medical field, and slightly disagree with this video.

>> ^cybrbeast:

Thanks for sources blutruth. But I have a problem with your simple in/out calcualtion. If you drink less there is also less to come out. I.e. if you drink a lot you will pee a lot and your pee will be colorless. If you drink less water you pee much less, but it will become ever more yellow/brown. The big question is at what color is your pee showing you, you drink too little.
There is a lot of range in the insensible water loss, which as stated in the clip means you don't have to drink much if you don't do much physical activity.


cybrbeast you are simplifying your argument too much. The simple in/out calculation is exactly that, simple. The information backing it has to do with body self-regulation with Urine/Plasma Osmolality tied to with Glomerular Filtration Rate, reabsorption of relevant electrolytes, and hormones controlling these functions. After studying the method of how a body detects it's own fluid level(effective circulating volume, also blood pressure), and working out how each system in it's own produces an effect on either water loss/retention, we worked out the approximate numbers of a person's water requirements. We even have a formula to check a person's current water deficit:

Water Deficit = 0.4 x Lean Body Weight x (plasma [Na]/140 -1)
(Renal Pathophysiology: The Essentials by Rennke/Denker pg. 90)(http://www.amazon.com/Renal-Pathophysiology-Essentials-Helmut-Rennke/dp/0781796261/)

The best way to answer your second question is about pee color, is to look at urine osmolalities. Urine osmolality can range from 50-100 mOsm/kg to 1000-1400 mOsm/kg(same renal book, page 206). The lower the osmolality, the more concentrated your urine is(and the more yellow it is) and the more water your body is retaining. There is no "perfect pee," from what I have learned, only a pretty relaxed range which anyone with access to fluids can maintain. If you want a specific color or osmolality you won't find one.

You are right when it comes to the large range of the insensible water loss, but you would be surprised what would make you lose that water and how much of it. Unfortunately I don't have time to look up the exact numbers of insensible water loss, but off the top of my head I can list physical activity (through sweating), breathing, environment with low humidity or high temperature. These little things can all add up to water loss.

Also stimulants like amphetamines, methamphetamines, caffeine, and depressants such as alcohol can lead to increased water loss.

What I'll also add to this is that it isn't only water that you lose throughout the day, but also electrolytes that need replacing through food and other sources. Drinking something such as distilled water will not do you any good, some of the best things to drink are isotonic solutions and juices that have many other nutrients and not just water that keep you going. Thanks for your time.

Some humans pick at their own bodies, damaging skin, flesh etc (eg methamphetamine users) but we don't put them down, let nature run it's course - the only thing unusual about this event is that you haven't seen it on video before.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Methamphetamine#Medical_use

We now know where to go to buy some methamphetamine.

Breaking Bad is about this chemistry professor who finds out he has inoperable lung cancer who decides to make a nest egg for his family by making methamphetamines.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=erZqsV5UJpM
It really is a very good show and won several emmys

"Our plan is to deregulate while talking around the issue without addressing it directly. Then, when the world has become a hellscape and the average lifespan has dropped to less than 30 years, we'll have a new administration to blame. Of course by that time I'll be long dead, having overdosed on methamphetamines while indulging in a binge weekend with my secret gay lover."

The book isn't about how much would be saved by legalizing marijuana, it's about the savings from legalizing all drugs. Meth, crack... everything. You can't use the numbers he states as evidence that legalizing marijuana would help the economy. The savings from that alone would be much lower.

Maybe legalizing all drugs is a better option than prohibition, but I bet that the support for allowing harder drugs will be much less than for weed. Weed is seen as harmless by a great number of people, but methamphetamine is widely viewed as very dangerous and highly addictive.

I very much support the idea of personal responsibility and being allowed to put whatever you want into your body, but I also wonder if our current system could handle such a change. Where would the supply of these drugs come from? Growing weed is pretty safe, but cooking meth could blow your house apart... would that be legal (probably not)? Someone would have to provide it, but would they be liable for known health risks (like brain damage)?

It is an interesting idea to contemplate, especially given the utter failure of prohibition.