As Jimmy Kimmel once said (paraphrasing), "The difference between a Rush Limbaugh fan and a Bill Maher fan is, fans of Bill KNOW he is an a**hole!" * And Bill talking about manhood is like Ted Cruz advising someone on how to make friends.

The Ball Count:
Those numbers are stark. Have seen similar numbers. CDC birthrates suggest bleakness. But suggest it isn't lack of manliness but the whole American lifestyle. Long work hours w/low compensation; having little say in how the government works; medical insecurity - - stress, stress, stress - - w/o many signs of hope. (lost a bundle on the Mitch McConnell security blankets)

a lot of issues brought up in his monologue but has very few clues to the reasons.

'Tho his answer to INCELS has already been better stated...
(condensed version starts @ 5:21)

I don't know for sure, but I hear they do teach respect and manliness in prisons.

I also think respect is taught in the home. Something as simple as respecting those who can kick your ass because those people are always right. And if you buck that logic you get sent off to military school to be regimented.

I don't understand the mentality that respect equals weakness.

I'm also curious as to whether mechanical skill makes someone more manly. Where do I find the list that ranks manly activities? How do I figure out my manliness quotient and what is the threshold for turning into a soyboy? Is it reversible by eating some red meat or watching rambo?

I would think fishing would be manly but where does fly fishing stand? Surely all that swishing and fucking about is classic soyboyism? May as well be doing rhythmic gymnastics. Does eating a fish caught when fly fishing negate the method of fishing used?

So many questions, why didn't they teach me this in school!?

I don't road rage, but when I do, I use a $750 20 year old truck so I don't need to injure myself to prove my manliness.

Funny how the taunts right-wingers use to describe lefties (such as 'snowflake') are actually far more true of themselves.

They value 'manliness', toughness, and martial abilities above all else, but it seems like every one of them found some way to avoid serving in the military (though Ted Nugent literally shitting his pants is still the best example of that particular cowardice).

When it comes down to it, they're all a bunch of lying, cowardly, sissy men, and sometimes I wish Barack Obama would step into the ring with Alex Jones, Rush Limbaugh, or Donald (or hell, I'd do it if given a chance, but nobody knows who I am, so that's not very likely).

I was thinking more battering ram, just smash it in to stuff until it yields to my manliness... = |

If we're going to get made out to be knuckle dragging Neanderthals, might as well go the whole hog... =)

I'm sorry, I often fail at getting my point across. My point with Cindy was that it seemed odd that you called him out as a fat guy, but I didn't think you would be OK with the same treatment of a woman. Kind of a 'what's good for the goose' argument is what I was going for.

Certainly average women are UNDER represented, but they are represented more all the time and certainly not absent. Gabourey Sidibe is on Empire, one of the higher rated dramas, just to name one non-skinny actress off the top of my head. It sounded to me like you were saying that ONLY pretty, thin, overtly 'sexy' women get screen time, and I think that's no longer true by far.

I'm sorry you think that about me. I, of course, disagree. If I was 'willfully blind about the facts', why would I discuss anything with anyone ever, or do any research on things I don't know about? I would know it all already and have nothing to gain from anyone. Because I don't always see things as you do does not make me 'willfully blind to the facts' IMO, but you're welcome to your own opinion.

Well, wait, didn't YOU just spread the 'unreasonable standard' about men in your first post when you said " ...when the only thing we get to see in the media are perfect beautiful men wearing tight clothing and makeup that extenuates their manliness, I won't complain as much."? That's how I took that statement, did I misunderstand?

I just thought Magic Mike (1&2) fit your above statement, not in any way did I mean to imply that it's a good movie. ;-)

Turns out the big guy wasn't a football player. He was the choreographer.

Explains his own sexualization.

I get your point, @artician, about women being able to claim their own sexuality -- and their own bodies. I have become a huge fan of Amy Schumer for that very reason.

This kind of crap though -- they aren't claiming their sexuality for themselves, it feels to me. It's some weird "selling" thing where they are the commodity. Besides -- if we are going for equality -- when men sell their sexuality like this, when the only thing we get to see in the media are perfect beautiful men wearing tight clothing and makeup that extenuates their manliness, I won't complain as much.

I think it will be a horribly sad state of affairs that plain men, and fat men, and downright ugly men will no longer be seen on TV. My preference would be that we see plain, and fat, and ugly women in equal proportion to men's roles, and that women have more roles than men's children, wives, mothers, girlfriends.

When the fat guy came out, I sure enjoyed him. And at one point thought -- dang, I'm looking forward to the day a fat woman dancing gets whoops and hollers. (Bless you Melissa McCarthy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!)

Upvote for much facial hair of manliness..

To say we haven't hyper masculinized our culture is just plain ignorant. If you look throughout history, you can see the gradual progression towards an ungodly amount of "manliness". Same goes for women too. A lot simply comes down to advertising and commercialization, the segmentation of the have's and have not's and so forth.

You want to have respect? Be a man! Want money? Be a man! But what IS being a man? Is it punching some dude in the face for "disrespecting" you? Or if it laughing it off knowing the other guy is just a loser?

In reality, it comes down to money. To people who are poor, violence is usually the solution. There is no question about that; statistically speaking poorer men are more likely to lash out violently than those with more. Mostly because the poor man only has his respect. The rich man, well, he could get sued, lose his job, get hurt, lose his house and fancy car etc.

Knowing this, how do you advertise to the male with little? You tell him if he wants to be anything, he needs to be a man! Like James Bond or something. 6-pack abs (despite a long history of that not being the ideal form, i.e. early black and white movies or dress makers changing the sizes of their clothes from a size 12 being "average" to a size 6.)

I know we love to say men are being feminized and turning into "wussies." Fox news loves talking about how the NFL is worried about brain injuries (despite all the evidence showing clearly there is a ton of it) and Christian groups claiming bullying is GOOD for society because it weeds out the gays. For a "man" to, I have no idea actually, whatever it is the Fox News thinks men should be . . . Are "men" supposed to always be violent? They should always resort to shooting each other over trivial things?

What exactly is "being a man" all about anyway? Not being gay? Not being like a woman? And why is being a woman, or gay, so terrible? Why is it that high heels and make up were originally a "man" thing? Or frilly clothes . . . Why is it that 100 years ago, little boys and girls wore the same clothes, which were usually dresses? Hell, Ernest Hemmingway (a man's man) wore a dress as a child. There are plenty of pictures of him in it, and it's even on display at his house in Key West. So is he less of a man now?

And if wearing a skirt is so not manly, why are Scot's so manly then? Or is it manly to say fuck society, I'll do what I want? Is it manly to go against the flow? Stand up for what you believe? For instance, the story of the father who wore dresses because his son wanted to wear a dress, and the father didn't want his son to feel ashamed for being who he is? I'm pretty sure that father, as some say, has some pretty big brass balls. Would you do that for your kid? Or would you bow to societal pressure instead?

A worthy topic of discussion . . . I mean, right after ending the pointless wars and stopping the NSA from finding out whether or not you wear your wife's panties . . .

Comment hidden because you are ignoring dag. (show it anyway)

Me too. Love that clip.>> ^hpqp:

Every "gay+manliness" discussion reminds me of this:
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Every "gay+manliness" discussion reminds me of this:

@Lawdeedaw: this is all I have to say about male homosexuality and manliness

I used to have a SuicideGirls account. It was pretty cool back in high school but...meh.

After watching this though I think they've rather missed the point of "Fight Club" as a movie. Whereas Fight Club was about brotherhood and finding manliness again and such this seems more like celebrating a victory and brutalizing your opponent. Fight Club was much different in that after a fight it was customary for the two men to hug, it wasn't about celebrating the victor, there was no real winner in a sense. In fact the time when Jack (narrator) wins and then brutalizes a fellow participant so he cannot get up on his own is one where everyone acknowledged he deviated from the spirit of what Fight Club was about. He was cast as the villain for what he did to Jared Leto's character.

SuicideGirls may have tried to show how it would be if women got together topless to fight in a warehouse but this isn't anything to do with Fight Club. Whoever wrote and directed this just missed the mark and I'd like to see it again done right.

...Or maybe I just want to see topless girls hugging after getting all sweaty...dismiss me if you wish.

yes, you are right. i just think "it gets better" itself isn't necessarily accurate -- but everything else is great.
>> ^peggedbea:

mmm i don't know, i'm not usually a fan of PSA's or PR campaigns in general, but i do really like this one. maybe it's just because i love everything dan savage does.
but i also think the point is not only to let lgbt kids know that high school sucks and then you move on and A LOT of people in the big big world actually do support you, but also to let other kids know that homophobia isn't cool and in that context i think this campaign has the potential to be effective.
i saw dan savage speak live recently and he talked a bit about the 'it gets better' project and the letters he gets from gay kids all over the place. one story made me cry, this 15 year old girl watches 'it gets better' videos on youtube under her covers, on her phone, after everyone in the house is asleep so she doesn't have to feel alone. she can watch literally thousands of videos from people telling her there is nothing wrong with her, the world outside of her tiny little high school kid box supports her and after she turns 18 she can leave and be whoever she wants, i think that is a measure of success. >> ^berticus:
Ok. I know I'm a cynical fucker, but.. I'm getting sick of hearing this message, because frankly, it just isn't always true. But I guess it's not quite as powerful to say "for some people it gets better but for other people things will still be shit!"
Plus what rottenseed and MaxWilder said.
Having said that, I still think it's a good message. I don't know if it will actually have any measurable positive impact (e.g. reduction in suicides) but I hope so.