I think we all know that anytime a government dvelops a non-lethal weapon, it will more than likely be used exclusively on its own population. So when the big revolt comes, we'll all get a million volts.

Very serious and emotional matter... I'm quite outraged and would normally refrain from commenting in this state BUT

Are you aware of the fact that in this video someone actually DIED? A real death, no pulp-fiction-acting, Fedquip! I mean come on, i just witnessed someone being KILLED by police! In my eyes this is NOT something for the sift!

And besides: The cops are killers, they should be treated as such. Non-lethal weapon my ass! For using tasers alone i hope they burn and rott in hell or whatever punishment their religion holds for them. When will people finally stop using those awful things? Really, i hope they get what they deserve.

Yes, that's where our society needs to be: Making laws from fear.

If putting forward the reality of yearly DUI related fatalities is just "spreading fear" then what exactly would be adequate justification? Or for any rule of society? It's also illegal to set fire to a packed movie theater because oh, you may just hurt some people... but that's a conspiracy too; it's just spreading fear!

since the only way to move you or your family from one state to another is via vehicle, then I'm not sure driving should be a priviledge in the first place.

You make odd statements. You need to move your family, and therefore toting ready-to-enjoy doobies around in your car is fine? It is not, and you are permitted to drive in this country, provided you do so according to the rules. In my opinion, the rules are too lax. It's a multi-ton device, a lethal weapon when used carelessly. Tens of thousands die yearly. A drunk driver should lose his/her license for life. Ride the damned bus if you're so irresponsible.

Note that anything I've posted is completely separate from opinions on legalization and the inconsistencies and short sightedness revolving around that -- this is only about DUI. Keep it off the road.

What is the acceptable amount of death for a "non lethal" weapon. I dont get why this is not some form of manslaughter or a like charge. I cant imagine its self defense. In the end its just very sad.

Here's the deal all you pro-militarized police forces... Tasers are LESS lethal weapons. They should only be used when someone's life is at risk.

Drunk chicks who are handcuffed in the back of a cruiser do not meet that standard. Hello, assholes, you are condone institutionalize torture. When our brilliant "peace" officers take CUSTODY of a suspect, that person is deprived of their liberty and in exchange we guarantee them rights of habeas corpus, rights against cruel and unusual treatment.

According to Officer Rich Kovach's own police report, he shocked Heidi Gill, 38, seven times -- twice after she had been handcuffed.

In the report, filed September 4, Kovach describes responding to a "fight/disturbance inside the bar" and finding a belligerent Gill, who began cursing, refused to give her real name, then tried to flee.

Can a taser kill you? Yes. Does the risk go up when you've been tased for 7 cycles? Yes. Are drunk people more prone to heart and respiratory problems, probably. Would a taser be less effective on a clearly smashed drunk person, yes. Is this a new toy that cops feel like using because it is "easier", yes. Is this different from a cow prod or bullwhip? Nope, we're all n****rs now.

Idea-stealing motherfuckers! This is bullshit. And if it ain't, everyone interviewed is a moron for acting serious. Besides, the gay bomb is not a non-lethal weapon.

Hey BlueBalls, you really really do GW a disservice by using his name. You are one ignorant 'Merikan. You are so astonishingly stupid when it comes to immigration, I can't make heads or tails of it.

First of all, most illegal are not even from Mexico (in states not bordering Mexico). You look at northern states that have huge illegal populations (all working in food and retail ships), and they look "Mexican" to an ignorant fuck like you, but in fact are not. Then you have huge populations of "approved" legal residents that the INS has designated by city. Most INS branches has two countries and those branches get all people from, say Somalia, or Bosnia, etc. Those schools, often in smaller towns, have the same problem you cite about second languages. And these are "approved" legal resident aliens. So what's your issue there? "Learn English you "others"!"

Some day you have to realize this cousin-fucker concept of "others" is just racism and xenophobia. You know this country was founded by many "illegals" who were yearning to be free.

I fight for the rights that are described in the Bill of Rights. Basic human rights, not basic American rights. No where does the Constitution (especially the Bill of Rights) claim that the Government can treat non-citizens differently from those who were born on US soil. It is an ideal of how a fair, good, and noble gov't can act in exchange for us allowing it to exist (an necessary evil).

Who do you think was in the park in L.A.? It's not about checking to see if there are illegals, but rather how many people lost their right under the First Amendment to assemble? You;re arguement is that most people there that day were illegals so the cops can beat and kill them, since they are sub-human... But my issue is how many citizens had their CONSITUTION RIGHTS stolen by riot gear thugs shooting "less-lethal" weapons as innocent, peaceful citizens. And you approve of this because some of those people are from Mexico. I hope and pray that you choke on your Taco Bell and die with pico de gallo foaming from your nose.

I'm on the 'less guns, less deadly violence' side here.

I'm pretty sure I would've been shot dead long ago by someone I pissed off instead of just getting beat up had they actually had access to a gun.

If a person gets pushed into a homocidal rage and they have access to lethal weapon I'm pretty sure they'll end up using it.
If a person gets pushed into a homocidal rage and they don't have access to a lethal weapon they might simmer down and think twice before doing something.. or just resort to some fisticuffs.

I'm sure we'll all end up walking around with personal nuclear bombs eventually, though..

Yes, that is what would make everyone feel safe - lethal weapons in everyone's possession!

changed title joedirt

from wiki -

The effects of this radio frequency on humans have been studied by the military for years, and much, but not all, of the research has been published openly in peer reviewed journals. A listing of many of these articles can be found on the military Joint Non-Lethal Weapons Program website on the ADS page.

Controversy as to the methodology of testing, in which volunteers were asked to remove glasses, contact lenses and metallic objects that could cause hot spots, has raised concerns as to whether the device would remain true to its purpose of non-lethal temporary incapacitation if used in the field where safety precautions would not be taken. Proponents of the system claim that these tests were early in the program and part of a thorough and methodical process to demonstrate the safety and effectiveness of the technology, which has now involved more than 600 volunteer subjects and some 10,200 exposures. As safety was demonstrated in each step of the process, restrictions were removed and now, according to ADS proponents, there are no restrictions or precautions necessary for volunteers experiencing the effect.

Critics cite that although the stated intent of the ADS is to be a non-lethal device designed to temporarily incapacitate, easy modifications or incorrect use by the operator could turn the ADS in to a torture device that would violate international conventions on warfare.

Ok Rembar, I thought my previous post might be misconstrued as an attack on MMA Judo BJJ police etc.

First I don't need to lay out my credentials, my points have to stand on their own merits, as well as do yours. The validity of a claim does not follow from the credibility of the source. But I will give my credentials anyway. 4 years of Judo, 2 while in HS, 2 in college, I have competed in several USJA tournaments in San Francisco, lost most of the matches, but I did win a few. My highest rank was a brown belt, and some would say I needed more time in to get that far. I know my way around a choke, from both ends. Beat time? None. Club security, 2 years. And you can get shot, stomped, and stabbed as easily as a cop.

That Said, I did not mean to criticise anything about fighting arts and competitions, just the application of chokes and strangles in subduing citizens. I will attempt to clarify my previous arguments.

1. The Health of persons being choked. The problem is not with the ease of choking, it is the ability to withstand and recover. Your average victim of a police incident is not an athlete, and in many instances is intoxicated. It is unequivocally more dangerous to cause an intoxicated person to go unconscious. In addition for most people, being choked can cause panic, which causes struggling that can lead to injuries not associated with the actual choke to both officers and suspects.

2. Excess adrenaline. I'll concede the point. Both cause much adrenaline to be spent. Although a good MMA fighter can control their emotions, and control the adrenaline to some extent.

3. Malice. What happens in a match when a guy is choked out, knocked out, or his joint is manipulated causing pain and damage? The ref stops the fight or someone taps out. In a police incident, the cop is the Ref. If the cop has malice, lookout, if the suspect gets the cops gun, or has a knife, bloodshed and death may follow. I'll take the malice evident in a controlled sporting event over the malice in a "real world" encounter any day. MMA guys just don't get stabbed, bitten, or shot, eye gouged, fishhooked etc. (ok maybe there has been some biting and fishhooking)

4. Poor Training. Duh right back at ya. The operative word here is POOR. Everyone reading this is not stupid. We know that cops need training in order to do their jobs without causing physical harm unnecessarily. It's a given. When training is inadequate, bad stuff happens. I think that was clear enough without additional comment.

I would like to comment on your points as well.

"I know the approximate times that my opponent will lose consciousness, will suffer permanent damage, and regain consciousness after the chokehold is released."

Really! Okay, the guys you practice with or fight ought to be similar, weight, age fitness. But how quickly will a 190 pound asthmatic college student who snorted meth all week take to pass out, and when will he wake up? Does he have a heart condition, suffer from panic attacks, have schizophrenia? These unknowns caused a french tourist in las vegas to die from a choke applied by metro several years back. By all accounts, the choke was applied properly. The taser is safer for the cop, as far as the suspect, I wouldn't guess that it is any safer.

"The Taser was developed to reduce the number of FIREARM-related deaths. FIREARM-RELATED DEATHS."

It was developed in response to a murder of 2 of the inventors friends as a non lethal weapon that did not classify as a fire arm and thus could be manufactured without the red tape the BATF would require. It was not actively marketed to police departments by taser int. until 1998. It was adopted by police departments as a non lethal weapon to be used to reduce officer injuries AND reduce shootings.

I do not have any arguments with your conclusion.

That is the funniest siftbot comment ever. Who knew you could rile up ol' sifty.

I love the mayor's comments. Not that the police state shouldn't have been firing on innocent women and children who clearly were not a threat.. But that he should have stopped those comments by the cops on camera. We have militarized our police (formerly illegal) and given them "non-lethal" and "less-lethal" weapons.

Every rubber bullet stand a good chance of killing you or at least permanently injuring you. So there is no excuse to be using them unless you would have shot your 9mm at same person. The cops have been desensitized and convinced that protesters deserve it, and are hippy cockroaches, and they think they are doing good. They think people shouldn't protest. Idiots on here think people shouldn't protest, or bring their kids to protests. Hey, assholes, how do you think this country got started?! Go read some American Rev history.

Bush can now send Nat'l Guard if he feels like it. Not only is habeaus corpus history, but so is posse comitatus. Enjoy your free speech zones. The end times are near.. soon you can witness the birth of the Corporate States of America. Maybe they won't change the abbriviation. The Unincorparted States of America... yeah, that's more Orwellian.

I doubt even EU laws would not deem this self-defense. I guess you could argue the guy went a little nuts and licensed boxers can be charged as 'lethal weapons'. (Because they are trained badasses)

It's the corporate policy of most of these places to fired you just for being arrested. So yeah, she was probably sh^tcanned.

My problem with this cop, and I think this is the essence of what happened.. there is some expectation of some respect and the authority goes to their heads. The cop wanted to arrest her mostly for just mouthing off. I think even the cop know that in court, she couldn't be charged with theft, there is no evidence unless he is assuming a search of her person will show up a $20. (Good odds that someone might have their own $20 bill) But short of finding a magic $20, there clearly is no case of short-changing here. Also, it isn't a crime to mistakenly give the wrong change. Technically, the cop should have taken it up with the manager and then file charges against the corporation. There is no arrestable offense in a business transaction. So honestly, she is right to stick up for not coming with the cop, there wasn't grounds to be arrested. Now I would have done it gladly to sue the city for wrongful arrest.

Now her swearing and mouthing off pissed off the cop and he wanted to put her in her place and put her in a squad car and ruin her day. I'm almost positive he wouldn't even have taken her in to be processed, as everyone would laugh at the cop, and probably fire him for arresting someone for his missing change from Wendys. So it was a power-play and sadly he brought out the mace, which was an idle threat, but then rather than looking stupid, had to mace her.

Anyone who sticks up for cops who mace or taser people for their convenience over traffic tickets or other B.S. are total douches. We're talking about $40 fines and other crap, which doesn't warrant using chemical weapons or physical violence. But in reality the bigger picture is establishing a police state. Making citizens comfortable with seeing others be assaulted for non-compliance. They are militarizing the police with "less-lethal" weapons and military gear to help further a para-miltary police state.

The only quote worth remembering from any of the Lethal Weapon movies "It's 'Fried Rice' you Plick!".