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ChaosEngine (Member Profile)

White House - U.N shelter attack totally unacceptable

ChaosEngine says...

What's amazing is that even most Israelis don't know the extent of the campaign.

Listen to a former Israeli Air Force pilot talk about the way the campaign is presented inside Israel.

Side note: that guy is a moral hero. Standing up to your own government when in the military is the height of bravery IMO.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yY1P7D85xKw

newtboy said:

Yet you continue to believe Israeli propaganda because it's been consistently truthful....Uuuuhhhh.....

White House - U.N shelter attack totally unacceptable

newtboy jokingly says...

Yet you continue to believe Israeli propaganda because it's been consistently truthful....Uuuuhhhh.....

lantern53 said:

Frankly, I don't believe much of anything coming from Hamas or the WH. Neither has any history of truthfulness.

White House - U.N shelter attack totally unacceptable

billpayer says...

The U.N. accused Israel of killing children as they slept, when a U.N. run school sheltering 3000 refugees was shelled 3 times.

"This is surely an affront to all of us. A source of universal shame. Today the world stands disgraced."

The school had been announced to the Israeli army 17 times.

"We condemn in the strongest possible terms this serious violation of international law by Israel forces"

TYT - Israel's devastation of Gaza

newtboy says...

Not so in any meaningful way.

Israelis are the expansionists....aggressors.
Israel bombed first this (and many other) round(s)....aggressors.
Israel has many other less harmful methods of obtaining their 'stated' goals but prefer indiscriminately bombing civilian populations and shelters, then lying about it and blaming the victims....aggressors and liars.
Israel is safe as long as the iron dome system works, and it's working fine against the fireworks, but they still claim their offensive military campaign is defensive....aggressors, liars, and assholes.
Israel has done to the Palestinians what the Nazis did to them, namely force them into ghettos, then a giant concentration camp where they are randomly killed, but Israel still thinks they somehow hold the high moral ground (in large part because of people like you who will tell them so, in the face of all evidence to the contrary)....evil, history forgetting aggressors.
I think that's enough to say you are dead wrong in the first part of your statement....but they are getting their butts kicked. To me, that's a statement about the inhuman willingness of Israel to repeatedly and viciously attack a defenseless, imprisoned population rather than a slight against Palestinians.

bobknight33 said:

Palestinians and Hamas are the aggressors and now they are getting their buts kicked.

Saudi Arabia Tries to Silence Center for Inquiry

TYT - Israel's devastation of Gaza

newtboy says...

No, but we can certainly all agree that the Palestinians and Hamas are victims of the Israelis.
The Palestinians want to take showers, but Israel has cut off/destroyed all their water and electricity infrastructure (because they are apparently afraid Palestinians might start throwing water balloons, so no water or electricity for them, perfectly reasonable, proper, and humane).
#IsolateIsrael

lantern53 said:

We can all agree that the Palestinians and the Israelis are all victims of Hamas. At least the Israelis take showers.

Confucius (Member Profile)

newtboy says...

"Hamas....and Isreal are both equally to blame" Just absolute grade A bullshit. Israel is the cause of the conflict, the aggressor, the expansionist, the bully, the big stick, and (you'll love this) the Nazi in this situation. Hamas is born from Israel's actions as a misguided attempt at retaliation/defense.
When deaths are 30-1, with over 80% of the 30 being civilians (and 0% of the 1 being civilians, there's no such thing as an Israeli civilian), one side is far worse.
Once again, because you can't seem to understand, complaints about one party in a fiasco do not equate to support of the other party's methodology. Jumping to that conclusion is the epitome of ignance (once again, meaning intentional, un-fixable ignorance).
OMFG, really?!? Hamas uses their casualties as "propaganda", equated to Israel's over sold lies about their unconscionable actions that CAUSED those avoidable civilian casualties? Damn, you really have your head up Israel's ass so far you can't see reality at all, huh?
For it to stop, the perpetrators must see themselves for what they are, the perpetrators. That is why fault must be assigned properly, only the perpetrator can stop what they are doing, and they must understand their own horrendous actions to want to stop. Assigning them blame at least gives them the opportunity, if they could only open their ears and minds enough to see past their side's propaganda. Yes, I mean Israel.

Confucius said:

Hamas....and Isreal are both equally to blame. Both of you are so busy trying to point fingers because of a lopsided body count that you fail to realize that its not the 'equivalency of an equation' that's wrong.....its the fact that the equation exists at all that is wrong....and it does exist. Saying that it doesn't exists equates past present and future Israeli deaths to nothing.

if there were equal deaths on both sides then it would be okay? Of course not. It's the morons on both sides that keep picking at each other that are to blame. By pointing your finger at one side and declaring "you're worse" you legitimize and by default PROMOTE the other side. Unless you qualify your statement, which you didn't.

All you said was "Pro-Israeli Propgandists...braaahhh." Oh hey you could have mentioned that Hamas probably uses urban casualties as their own method of propaganda.


And Asmo you said "I guarantee you...there would be more Israelis swinging."

SO WHAT?

Hang the responsible and move on. The moment you say...told you there were more Israelis responsible is the moment the Israelis pick up the fight again or vice versa.

So yeah..I stand by my statement that it is the epitome of ignorance to promote either side in this. They are both (Hamas and Israeli elites) bloodthirsty morons and it doesn't matter whose at fault...it just needs to stop.

TYT - Israel's devastation of Gaza

charliem says...

Noone is telling Israel to shrug their shoulders....the issue is not with the defence, it is the measure of the defence.

Israel should send in a police force, and find those responsible. Shut down the tunnels by ground, stop bombing indiscriminately.

This requires police action, not military...the 'missiles' you keep referring to are pathetically weak, absolutely pathetic.

Were I leader of Israel, I would drop the wall, set about repairing the damages inside the city, allow the organisation of a government, support it in getting benefits in for the people of Gaza and Palestine, halt the invasion of settlers into Palestinian territory, halt the bombings and send in armed police where reports of weapons stashes are. Set up large scale police patrols in troubled areas, let people go about their lives without the fear of having a bomb dropped on their head, try to give them a leg up in life....and the revenge attacks using piss weak rockets will stop.

The Israeli measure of force is far far higher than it should be.

There is no army inside gaza, its kids playing with homemade rocketry. Get cops in there, not 500lb bombs.

If both sides agreed to a ceasefire, allowing UN peacekeepers into the area to...you know...keep the peace, whilst the cities are rebuilt, peoples lives can get back to normal...my god imagine that world.

shinyblurry said:

You didn't address my question; I never said I am ok with civilians being killed. Could you please address the scenario; how do you think the US would respond to rocket attacks on its cities? Would we attack and eliminate the threat or shrug our shoulders? We're asking Israel to shrug its shoulders about these attacks yet isn't it true we ourselves would never do that?

TYT - Israel's devastation of Gaza

Confucius says...

Oh man...I feel bad you just went on an angry tirade because you saw what you wanted to read and NOT what I wrote.

Derp...I didn't say let's forget the civilians. I said...that "nobody blames INNOCENT civilians so let's move past that" (i.e. let's not assume anyone is blaming civilians, or at least...Im certainly not).

Derp...I said that equivalency is irrelevant not that there IS equivalency. I said that the problem is that there IS an equation. When there is an equation there is an automatic need to balance it which equals more deaths down the road. THE PROBLEM is that people are dying and it needs to stop.

Why does that make you angry senor Caps and Bold? Why is the statement that death is bad and it needs to stop a problem?

Without reading and understanding what I wrote you automatically categorized me as a "hardliner." Then to further 'discredit' me you took a visual trait (my red P) and further categorized me in order to mock my statements and garner public support against my statements.

Its scary how easy and subconscious it is to create a reviled OTHER, which is Ironic considering the issue.

Anyway.... My only central point is and has been that Hamas and the Israeli elite directing the conflict are both to blame...they are both perpetuating the conflict throughout the decades in the best ways they can.

Why does saying that they are both to blame for the violence make me a hardliner? For who exactly? For people who understand that taking sides is stupid. Yes. And why does it spawn such vitriolic responses?

How can you not blame Hamas....How can you not blame Israeli elites?

Killing needs to stop. Humanitarian issues need to be fixed. Simple. Wooo such a hardliner.

billpayer said:

No, let's NOT forget the civilians.
1100 dead civilians is NOT equal to 40 dead invading soldiers.
Meanwhile Israels civilians are 90% in favor of this prolonged war and they are living under NO threat whatsoever. They are not in the same situation as the innocent besieged Gazan families and children being slaughtered by Israel.
There is NO equivalency here at all.
This is an attack on Gaza and I could write a much worse description for what this really is.

U.N: One child killed every hour in Gaza

TheFreak says...

Interesting to note, the Palestinians have an accuracy rate of 2O Israeli soldiers for every Israeli civilian killed. The superior Israeli military is killing 4 civilians for every combatant they kill.

Who's the terrorist state?

TYT - Israel's devastation of Gaza

Confucius says...

Both of you are so angry and whip-ready with media regurgitated points that you fail to see whats in front of you. Israel may be winning the ground war but Palestine has won the Media war (for once....).

It is pretty obvious that nobody blames innocent civilians so lets just ignore that.

Hamas....and Isreal are both equally to blame. Both of you are so busy trying to point fingers because of a lopsided body count that you fail to realize that its not the 'equivalency of an equation' that's wrong.....its the fact that the equation exists at all that is wrong....and it does exist. Saying that it doesn't exists equates past present and future Israeli deaths to nothing.

if there were equal deaths on both sides then it would be okay? Of course not. It's the morons on both sides that keep picking at each other that are to blame. By pointing your finger at one side and declaring "you're worse" you legitimize and by default PROMOTE the other side. Unless you qualify your statement, which you didn't.

All you said was "Pro-Israeli Propgandists...braaahhh." Oh hey you could have mentioned that Hamas probably uses urban casualties as their own method of propaganda.


And Asmo you said "I guarantee you...there would be more Israelis swinging."

SO WHAT?

Hang the responsible and move on. The moment you say...told you there were more Israelis responsible is the moment the Israelis pick up the fight again or vice versa.

So yeah..I stand by my statement that it is the epitome of ignorance to promote either side in this. They are both (Hamas and Israeli elites) bloodthirsty morons and it doesn't matter whose at fault...it just needs to stop.

TYT - Israel's devastation of Gaza

TYT - Israel's devastation of Gaza

Asmo says...

Wrong.

The side with the most power is worse. The side that can precisely destroy targets and yet somehow can't stop hitting everything else, is worse. The side that has layered defense systems neutralising the threat of home made dumbfire rockets, is worse. The side where people line up to laugh as civilians are murdered with no where to run, is fucking worse.

You cannot bring equivalency to this equation because there is none, and there never was. Israel has always relied on the rest of the world to back it's play, and continually pushes the limits of what it can get away with, defying the world to stop it.

If there was justice, a noose would be waiting for every cunt from either side responsible for the death of civilians, from the politicians and commanders who give the orders down to the troops that pulled the trigger. I fucking guarantee you there would be many times more Israeli's swinging than Palestinians...

Confucius said:

It's the epitome of ignorance to promote either side in this. They're both wrong. They're both at fault. They're both stupid and bloodthirsty.

One side is not better or worse than the other.

TYT - Israel's devastation of Gaza

newtboy says...

It's the epitome of ignorance to jump to the conclusion that because one sees one side being far worse than the other, that person must be promoting the 'lesser evil'.
It's just as ignorant to jump to the conclusion that empathy for the Palestinian civilians trapped in the giant concentration camp that is Gaza is tantamount to all out support for Hamas and it's tactics. That's a total straw man argument made by those that can't answer the actual issues of an expansionist Israel flexing it's significant military muscles against a trapped, helpless, completely defenseless population that has already been ghettoized into the stone age without qualm, using the blatantly ridiculous excuse of 'defense' for a purely offensive military campaign against a civilian 'quasi-refugee' population. It seems to me that people who make that argument have made the ignant (a stubborn kind of ignorance that can't be cured by education) decision to buy into the (quite well produced, I must admit) Israeli propaganda machine and ignore the indisputable facts.
Both sides are at fault, wrong, bloodthirsty, and bad, one side IS FAR MORE at fault, wrong, bad, and bloodthirsty...or if not more bloodthirsty then at least far better at blood lust sating without conscience.

Confucius said:

It's the epitome of ignorance to promote either side in this. They're both wrong. They're both at fault. They're both stupid and bloodthirsty.

One side is not better or worse than the other.



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