dupe?
http://www.videosift.com/video/Old-Dude-Bear-hug-tackles-Bank-Robber-38secs

In reply to this comment by Enzoblue:
These days I'm not sure if I wouldn't be on the bank robber's side.

Then you'd leave us with no other choice but to tackle you.

Your video, Old Dude Bear-hug-tackles Bank Robber (38secs), has made it into the Top 15 New Videos listing. Congratulations on your achievement. For your contribution you have been awarded 1 Power Point.

2 Possible Scenarios:

Bank Employee tackles would-be bank robber:
Bank Employee gets disciplined and/or fired

Bank Patron tackles would-be bank robber:
Bank Patron praised on the news

These days I'm not sure if I wouldn't be on the bank robber's side.

NetRunner,

Please make a list of the problems associated with crime. Then give me a percent (number addressed / number listed) for proposal #1, and proposal #2

Example crime:
I see you withdrawing money from the ATM and as you are putting money in your pocket, I grab it and run away. The amount lost was $1,000. A week later the cops catch me using a surveillance camera.

1. Our current system which focuses on punishment:
The district attorney presses charges against me, and you are subpoenaed. You have to take off time from work to go to court to testify. The jury finds me guilty, and sentences me to 1 year in jail. You pay taxes to feed, shelter, and pay for my cable TV in jail. So far you are out $1,000 cash, a days work, and approximately ($43.11*365/number of people in your state) in taxes. How do you feel about being mugged? How afraid are you of being mugged in the future?

2. The system I am proposing which focuses on restitution:
You go to the police station and decide to press charges. You voluntarily testify at the trial. You state how much money you lost and how it has impacted your life. The jury finds me guilty, and orders me to pay you $1,000 for the money I stole, $1000 for the impact to my life (psychological and otherwise), and orders me to 100 hours of community service. How do you feel about being mugged? How afraid are you of being mugged in the future?

Now lets assume I don't have $1000 to pay you back (after all I was probably stealing because I don't have much money). You could address this any number of ways, but here is one possible system:

1. Lien against my person
2. Wage garnishment
3. If I have no money, no possessions, no job, then I will be sent to jail. While in jail I will be permitted work release, and the ability to search for jobs. If I find a job, I will be immediately released from jail and proceed with wage garnishment until the debt is paid.
4. If at this point I still have no way to repay the debt, inmate work programs, or term sentencing may apply.

Compare these two systems as the damages become greater and greater (say for bank robber stealing $50,000, or a mugger violently assaulting someone). Now imagine you are a bank CEO who is thinking about committing $5 million fraud.

Which system is scarier to a criminal (someone who doesn't want to work)?
Which system provides more restitution to the victim?
Which system encourages the criminal to re-enter society as a law abiding citizen?
Which system allows the criminal to absolve themselves of their crime?
Which system reduces the fear associated with being a victim of crime?
Which system is less of a monetary drain on society?

>> ^NetRunnerI guess I don't understand what your proposal really even is. Is it to just abolish the idea of criminal justice entirely, and make everything into a civil suit over damages?
What would you do with people who would not, or could not pay?

>> ^MarineGunrock:
I never said these cops were right, but to specifically set something up that will waste taxpayer money is bullshit.

If law enforcement set up a fake bank sting for bank robbers to rob, the robbers are at fault. The COPS are the ones wasting money here, because they are the ones illegally raiding.

Dashcam video by Richardson police shows bullets from high-powered rifles flying through the window of a police cruiser, as the so-called Takeover Bandits made their getaway following a bank robbery on 11/04/2004.

Richardson officers responded to a call that the American First National Bank at 400 N. Greenville Ave. was being robbed. They caught up with the fleeing suspects and began a chase that took them north on Central Expressway and into Plano.

The video from one vehicle shows an officer attempting to follow the suspects' getaway car on to the highway when the suspect vehicle suddenly veers back onto the service road and unleashes a storm of bullets, shattering the rear window of their car and piercing the front of the police cruiser.

Another dashcam view from several minutes later in the chase shows the suspects, who by now had abandoned their first vehicle and stolen another, slamming into a pole at the intersection of Jupiter and Summit in East Plano.

The suspects jump out of the car, grab what appears to be some bags from the vehicle, and continue shooting at Richardson and Plano police officers.

Police: Lack of assault weapons results in disadvantage
Amazingly, no officers were shot; only one officer suffered minor injuries from flying glass.

One of the suspects in the robbery, 31-year-old Guadalupe Fajardo, turned himself in to authorities in the Panhandle town of Slayton, where he was apparently visiting relatives. Fajardo was transported back to North Texas Monday afternoon.

FBI is asking for the public's help to find the third member of the "takeover bandits." A $50,000 reward is being offered for information leading to the arrest of 22-year-old Ramon Gavina.

Gavina's brother, Roberto Gavina, was arrested earlier during an FBI raided an apartment complex in the 3700 block of Gus Thomasson in Dallas.

Update: March 14, 2005

DALLAS -- The third member of a violent gang of bank robbers responsible for 60 armed robberies and a shootout with Richardson, Texas, police has been arrested in Mexico, police said Monday.

Ramone Gavina, 22, believed to be part of the "Takeover" Bandits, was taken into custody by Mexican authorities on a charge unrelated to the bank robberies in North Texas. Mexican police released Gavina before realizing he was wanted in the United States. Police later rearrested Gavina.

Police said Gavina and the other members of the Takeover Bandits escaped Richardson police Nov. 4 during a gun battle that disabled five police cars while fleeing from a bank robbery.

I'm not advocating or decrying the actions taken by the police, but Thursday was a rough day in Howard County. There was a bank robbery that morning in Clarksville on Ten Oaks road, which is a couple exits from where this incident concluded. The bank robbers shot a bank employee, led police in a cross-county car and foot chase (apparently right by where I work! I've got to get a window office), and fired upon officers during the foot chase. One of the suspects was killed during the chase. Article in the Columbia Flier.

There was also a followup article in the Baltimore Sun today concerning Zombro's incident. The officer has been put on administrative leave as part of an investigation. Zombro "was wanted on an open warrant for theft. He had been under surveillance and fled from police when they tried to stop him in Jessup on Thursday afternoon, police said." The article details the charges against Zombro from this incident:

• six counts of second-degree assault
• one count of assaulting a law enforcement officer
• one count of reckless endangerment
• four drug possession charges
• four counts of malicious destruction of property

I've mapped out where Zombro's incident started and stopped here. I don't know Zombro's exact route (and I'm pretty sure he didn't take the quickest way to get here as suggested by Google ), but he certainly was on some major roads in the area. While driving, Zombro had to go over I-95, the major north-south highway in the area. The article reference in this post notes that he made a U-turn on route 32, which means he was headed west on route 32, which most likely means he had gone over route 29 once and was headed back to it. Route 29 is the other major north-south highway in this area. Both the bank robbers and Zombro were on route 32 on Thursday.

For the curious, I grew up in Columbia and live a county away now. I drive the road where this happened to get to my parents.

wow bank robbers have sophisticated ways of knocking out the cameras these days...

I think this rationale should extend to other crimes as well. Shoplifters wear a sandwich board. Armed burglars need to confess in person wearing pink leotards on live television during football games. Bank robbers need to prepare a figure skating routine and wear a tutu. This could work!

The incident highlighted the growing divergence between the means available to the police and the offensive and defensive technologies employed by criminals. Video footage of the incident clearly shows police pistol bullets striking the suspects with little or no effect, largely due to the body armor worn by the suspects. Their body armor was able to stop the .38 caliber and 9 mm projectiles fired by the officers' service handguns.

The ineffectiveness of the pistol rounds in penetrating the suspects' body armor led to a trend in the United States towards arming selected police patrol officers with .223 caliber/5.56 mm AR-15s semiautomatic rifles. This provided first responders with greater ability to effectively confront and neutralize heavily armed and armored criminals.

Advocates of gun control in the United States cited the incident as evidence that U.S. gun control laws were inadequate to prevent military-class weaponry ending up in the hands of prior felons. Opponents of gun control counter that as the weapons had been obtained illegally, the incident did not indicate that criminal use of legally registered fully automatic firearms was a problem.

The LAPD patrol officers were not adequately armed or protected to deal with such criminals. The gunmen were firing rifle rounds from illegally-modified fully automatic assault rifles while being protected by full body armor. The officers' handguns and shotguns could not penetrate the suspects' armor, while the suspects' weapons were capable of severely wounding officers and bystanders through cement walls and automobiles.

The North Hollywood shootout was an armed confrontation between two heavily-armed and armored bank robbers (Larry Eugene Phillips, Jr. and Emil Dechebal Matasareanu) and patrol and SWAT officers of the Los Angeles Police Department (LAPD) on February 28, 1997, at a Bank of America teller-office.

The shootout resulted in the wounding of fourteen people (twelve police officers and two civilians) and the deaths of both bank robbers. Although only the suspects were killed, the sheer number of injuries made this one of the bloodiest single cases of violent crime in the 1990s, and one of the most significant single bank robberies of the 20th century.

The Weapons
Larry Phillips and Emil Matasareanu had a large array of firearms, which included:

o HK91: Used by Phillips as he fired at officers on the left side of the bank, the rifle itself took a hit to the bolt guide rails, which caused little damage.

o Type 56 Assault Rifle: Used by Phillips after discarding the HK91, as he started the escape. The rifle jammed.

o AK47s: Both Phillips and Matasareanu used these rifles during the robbery.

o Bushmaster AR15: Matasareanu retrieved this rifle from the trunk of their getaway car after sustaining a leg wound. He then waited in the car for Phillips, while shooting through the windows. This was also the rifle used by Matasareanu as he was engaged in his last shootout with SWAT officers.

o Beretta 92 9mm pistol: Phillips committed suicide with this weapon after sustaining several gunshot wounds.

Facts
* Approximately 370 LAPD officers were called to the scene.

* Other than the LAPD, the Los Angeles County Sheriff's Department and units of the California Highway Patrol (CHP) responded to the scene. In the MVP documentary film, the LAPD sergeant being interviewed discusses the roles of those agencies as well as LA Airport PD, Burbank PD and LA School PD. Off-duty LAPD officers came in prior to the announcement of city-wide TAC-ALERT, which activates all personnel on duty. Members of the LAPD training at the Valley area police academy as well as the main LA police academy located in Elysian Park also responded. SWAT officers also responded from the police academy. One response was from Chief Willie Williams, who came from Parker Center, the LAPD's headquarters, located downtown.

* The following year, seventeen LAPD officers were awarded Medals of Valor from the department for their actions and bravery during the shootout.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_hollywood_shootout


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i34fbTMEius The video is from the film adaptation 44 minutes : North Hollywood Shootout - "Based on a shocking true story, 44 MINUTES recounts a fateful day in the life of several LAPD officers. In the summer of 1997 in North Hollywood, two wild gunmen with AK-47's began an assault on dozens of defenseless policemen. The results were tragic, but in the midst of the madness several well-trained and heroic individuals rose to the challenge, saving innumerable lives in the process."

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0362389/

Tags changed from "bank, robber" to "bank, chasers war on everything" by gold star member joedirt.